Louis Freeh releasing statement on ESPN now On Sandusky

#51
#51
bamawriter said:
4sure,

No one is saying that Penn State shouldn't sanction themselves. Some of us are simply saying the NCAA should stay out. And I'm with you on the idea that if this was Alabama, I'd have a tough time ever buying another ticket.
Click to expand...

I understand the argument, and I am not meaning to come across as confrontational. I just disagree that the NCAA should not be allowed to punish one of their institutions for such behavior. In anything less extreme, I would understand a slippery slope type argument. But covering for a known serial rapist, child molester, murderer, etc. should be grounds for punishment by the NCAA. I don't agree with many of the punishments levied by the NCAA, but this is one where they should be entitled to lay the hammer if the university does not do so itself.
 
#52
#52
TXA&M07 said:
Idont think they have a choice to rule or not to rule against them any further. They govern college athletics, not the State of P.A.

It was a state matter that occured on a campus. Campus authorities addressed the matter as did the state prosecuters.

The NCAA legally has no further say in the matter.

They're pretty powerful, but they need not be considered on the same level as a State Governing body.
Click to expand...

Only in the most myopic, legalistic point of view possible. Penn State Football is why the janitors were afraid to say anything. Penn State Football is why Mike McCreary called his dad and Joe Paterno instead of the cops. Penn State Football is why Paterno was apparently able to convince his "bosses" not to report it. Penn State Football was the lure Sandusky used to bring his victims in for the kills, and Penn State Football looked the other way while he "showered" and "wrestled" with them for over a decade.

If an athlete can be suspended on the field for something that happens off it, like when he beats his girlfriend or gets caught DUI, then something on the field sure as hell ought to happen to Penn State Football.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#53
#53
vols4sure said:
I understand the argument, and I am not meaning to come across as confrontational. I just disagree that the NCAA should not be allowed to punish one of their institutions for such behavior. In anything less extreme, I would understand a slippery slope type argument. But covering for a known serial rapist, child molester, murderer, etc. should be grounds for punishment by the NCAA. I don't agree with many of the punishments levied by the NCAA, but this is one where they should be entitled to lay the hammer if the university does not do so itself.
Click to expand...

NCAA member institutions submit to the NCAA's authority in matters of amateur athletics. They do not submit to the NCAA's authority in matter of criminal behavior by school employees.
 
#54
#54
Last thing I will say, everyone keeps talking about the players shouldn't be punished for the actions of others. If given the death penalty, the players would have the ability to freely transfer. My guess is all the starters and contributors to the team that would have no trouble finding another team would love to do so as this season will be hell for them. However, in an ironic twist, NCAA rules will prevent them from doing so.
 
#55
#55
Vercingetorix said:
Only in the most myopic, legalistic point of view possible. Penn State Football is why the janitors were afraid to say anything. Penn State Football is why Mike McCreary called his dad and Joe Paterno instead of the cops. Penn State Football is why Paterno was apparently able to convince his "bosses" not to report it. Penn State Football was the lure Sandusky used to bring his victims in for the kills, and Penn State Football looked the other way while he "showered" and "wrestled" with them for over a decade.

If an athlete can be suspended on the field for something that happens off it, like when he beats his girlfriend or gets caught DUI, then something on the field sure as hell ought to happen to Penn State Football.
Click to expand...

The weakness and character of those that you mentioned should not effect those left behind after the conclusion of this process. The janitors, McCreary and others poor choice should not effect an individual student athlete's aspirations to play a sport at their chosen university.

Oh, I get it, they could leave, sit out and play another year or two. How do you address those guys that are 4th-5th generation Penn St guys that only dreamed of playing for one school?
 
#56
#56
TXA&M07 said:
The weakness and character of those that you mentioned should not effect those left behind after the conclusion of this process. The janitors, McCreary and others poor choice should not effect an individual student athlete's aspirations to play a sport at their chosen university.

Oh, I get it, they could leave, sit out and play another year or two. How do you address those guys that are 4th-5th generation Penn St guys that only dreamed of playing for one school?
Click to expand...

If the NCAA doesn't worry overmuch about seniors when it hands out punishments for players meeting with agents and recruiting violations, then I don't see how it should fret too much about seniors when it hands out punishment to a program that spent a decade enabling child rape in their own showers.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#57
#57
TXA&M07 said:
The criminal in this matter has already been prosecuted and sentenced. The remiander of those responsible for the cover up of this have either been dismissed from the University or deceased. One in particular is both.

The matter as far as the legal process has been resolved. The Athletic Dept should not suffer any sanctions.

Not that it lessens the severity of this mushroom cloud, but the court of public opinon will punish that football program. The NCAA does not have any further jurisdiction on the matter and rightfully so.

Its time for the new regime to move forward as best they can.
Click to expand...

Well stated. My position as well.
 
#63
#63
milohimself said:
Might wanna check up on that...
Click to expand...

I assume you're hinting that there is indeed some governing authority over the Boy Scouts, something like the National Council of Child And Pederast Social Organizations? Who knew?

Then yeah, I'd say they should have been punished.
 
#64
#64
I think this is probablly stating the obvious but I want to say it and be done:

Aside from the victims, their families, and their unconceivable journey through recovery from here on out, this act has already reached boundries well beyond Happy Valley. The proud alumni, current student athletes, admin, and yound people with aspirations of continuing their education at a once proud University now are all faced with a black mark that was burned in the fabric of that institution by a terrible individual. This school, and Im not trying to sound like some bleeding heart here, will be faced with this for a long time. Unlike SMU, which is the nearest parrallel I can draw, this incident involved grown men who were intrusted by young people. For that, no short term recovery is obtainable. The long stemming ramifications will undoubtedly shape public opinon on the whole, but I just dont see it prudent to burden anyone left at the institution currently with punishment for crimes that have not only been prosecuted, but also crimes they themselves did not commit.

PSU is in a sad state of affairs and like many storied programs, College Football is better when they are competitive. Taking away their liberties now (in this particular circumstance) only twists a knife further into the heart of every memeber of the PSU family. A family in which is in mourning. Allow them to play. Allow them to heal. Allow them to right the ship and attempt to establish a "new normal". That in itself is a tough hill to climb and large burden to bear.

I wish them well in their journey and hope that something like this never happens again at any of our public or private Universities in this great country.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#65
#65
95 Vol Alum said:
Shall we begin shutting down the Catholic church and the Boy Scouts?
Click to expand...

No one is asking that the NCAA be shut down. If one chapter, troop, etc. was harboring a child predator, then yes that particular group should be punished. If bad enough (i.e., 14 years and multiple high level people covering it up), then they should shut the doors.
 
#66
#66
95 Vol Alum said:
I see the state/government as being the appropriate governing body in all of these instances.
Click to expand...

The state punishes crimes committed by individuals. Membership organizations like the NCAA punish actions by their members which are against their by-laws. Many of you are taking the narrow, legalistic approach that since "enabling child rape in the team showers" is not actually against the NCAA's by-laws, that they should therefore do nothing. My belief is that creating a culture where child rape goes unreported is a gross moral failing by one of the NCAA's members, and ought to be punished accordingly.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#67
#67
Vercingetorix said:
The state punishes crimes committed by individuals. Membership organizations like the NCAA punish actions by their members which are against their by-laws. Many of you are taking the narrow, legalistic approach that since "enabling child rape in the team showers" is not actually against the NCAA's by-laws, that they should therefore do nothing. My belief is that creating a culture where child rape goes unreported is a gross moral failing by one of the NCAA's members, and ought to be punished accordingly.
Click to expand...

The NCAA isn't the moral arbiter of "culture."
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#69
#69
Vercingetorix said:
The state punishes crimes committed by individuals. Membership organizations like the NCAA punish actions by their members which are against their by-laws. Many of you are taking the narrow, legalistic approach that since "enabling child rape in the team showers" is not actually against the NCAA's by-laws, that they should therefore do nothing. My belief is that creating a culture where child rape goes unreported is a gross moral failing by one of the NCAA's members, and ought to be punished accordingly.
Click to expand...

The individuals who created that culture should be punished accordingly. That should come from the government (criminal) and the victims (civil) as well as the University (employment). I'm fine with that accountability going all the way to the "top" if the evidence supports it.

Shutting down the program, specifically by the NCAA, doesn't compute with me. If the University elects to shut down the program, I would be fine with them making that decision for themselves.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#70
#70
bamawriter said:
The NCAA isn't the moral arbiter of "culture."
Click to expand...

"For intercollegiate athletics to promote the character development of participants, to enhance the integrity of higher education and to promote civility in society, student-athletes, coaches, and all others associated with these athletics programs and events should adhere to such fundamental values as respect, fairness, civility, honesty and responsibility. These values should be manifest not only in athletics participation, but also in the broad spectrum of activities affecting the athletics program."

That's from the NCAA rulebook. It certainly sounds like the NCAA reserves the right to make moral judgments when necessary.

If covering up child rape at an institutional level doesn't qualify as an activity that goes against the "fundamental value" of "responsibility," then I don't know what does.
 
#71
#71
bamawriter said:
The NCAA isn't the moral arbiter of "culture."
Click to expand...

Penn State is a member of the NCAA. The very depth of the NCAA bylaws - is about morals that the coaches must imbue not just on themselves, but on their players and towards their school. These coaches and administrators failed miserably. They put their school, mainly their schools reputation above all, even when it became criminal. Just to preserve their "reputation". I would hate to see the NCAA involved but feel that they must act. I believe the NCAA should give Penn State a choice - either they cleanse themselves by removing any and all mention of Paterno - vacate all wins from '98 till present - and release any scholarship players that wish to go elsewhere. If Penn State wishes not to do this - then give them the DP. The reason I state this is because as late as March of 2011 - Penn State admin's were still trying to keep this all under wraps.
 
#73
#73
KoachKletus said:
Penn State is a member of the NCAA. The very depth of the NCAA bylaws - is about morals that the coaches must imbue not just on themselves, but on their players and towards their school. These coaches and administrators failed miserably. They put their school, mainly their schools reputation above all, even when it became criminal. Just to preserve their "reputation". I would hate to see the NCAA involved but feel that they must act. I believe the NCAA should give Penn State a choice - either they cleanse themselves by removing any and all mention of Paterno - vacate all wins from '98 till present - and release any scholarship players that wish to go elsewhere. If Penn State wishes not to do this - then give them the DP. The reason I state this is because as late as March of 2011 - Penn State admin's were still trying to keep this all under wraps.
Click to expand...

That's an odd ultimatum. Why would you inflict a punishment that is more than you're asking them to do voluntarily? Why not just say "wipe him out of your recordbook and off your campus, or we'll do it for you"?
 
#75
#75
Vercingetorix said:
"For intercollegiate athletics to promote the character development of participants, to enhance the integrity of higher education and to promote civility in society, student-athletes, coaches, and all others associated with these athletics programs and events should adhere to such fundamental values as respect, fairness, civility, honesty and responsibility. These values should be manifest not only in athletics participation, but also in the broad spectrum of activities affecting the athletics program."

That's from the NCAA rulebook. It certainly sounds like the NCAA reserves the right to make moral judgments when necessary.

If covering up child rape at an institutional level doesn't qualify as an activity that goes against the "fundamental value" of "responsibility," then I don't know what does.
Click to expand...

There is nothing that is in the NCAA rulebook that is reflected in the federal penal code, or that of any state in the union. The NCAA wasn't created to enforce the law, it was created to enforce a level playing field of legitimate amateurism.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top