MACGRUDER's Jon Gruden theory (with help from others) Warning: Long

#51
#51
Plus....do people really think we're going to go through all the trouble of breaking the bank, getting a thought this could happen, and then let it fall apart without Gruden giving us the middle finger, and THEN drop off to some second rate coach?

It's like the $5million thread says...no way we go from offering someone huge to offering someone like Al Golden. It just doesn't happen. And yet you don't hear Saban's name, or Chip Kelly or anyone who is also deserving of a large amount of money. Fisher is the closest thing to that that is in the media right now.


Your brain is functioning at too high of a level for what the spin-cycle recommends. You might wanna tone it down....you just may be onto something. :birgits_giggle:

The only thing that would deter my from my perspective is this:

1.) Someone else getting walked across the floor to the podium.

2.) A straight up release from Hart or Gruden directly shooting it down (and even then, Saban and Meyer would make me second guess closing the door)

3.) An all out, publicized bidding war between two sought-after coaches. After Gruden, for all appearances, we're not even gunning for the silver medal - we're scouring the bars and backalleys for "really good athletes" that most would consider pipe dreams to be in the same league.


I don't see any of the above happening - hence my unwavering stance.
 
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#52
#52
Your brain is functioning at too high of a level for what the spin-cycle recommends. You might wanna tone it down....you just may be onto something. :birgits_giggle:

The only thing that would deter my from my perspective is this:

1.) Someone else getting walked across the floor to the podium.

2.) A straight up release from Hart or Gruden directly shooting it down (and even then, Saban and Meyer would make me second guess closing the door)

3.) An all out, publicized bidding war between two sought-after coaches. After Gruden, for all appearances, we're not even gunning for the silver medal - we're scouring the bars and backalleys for "really good athletes" that most would consider pipe dreams to be in the same league.


I don't see any of the above happening - hence my unwavering stance.

Completely agree.
 
#53
#53
Dude this all day long. This is exactly what I have been telling all my coworkers who just happen to be Florida Georgia and bama fans. I catch a lot of heat. A lot. But to me this is the biggest orange smokescreen in my entire life. I live ringgold ga and was working in niota two days ago and we went to Cracker Barrel for lunch. Walking out these two older gents and ones wife walked out gossiping about the said "news" from Knoxville an I walked by and said its a smokescreen. They just looked confused that Knoxville media could ever be wrong, gag, and I told them the short version of this and those frowns turned upside down lol. They def left thinking about it. OP I think you are spot on and I stand behind you 100% in my belief on this. Until someone else crosses that stage it's Gruden all the way
 
#54
#54
Dude this all day long. This is exactly what I have been telling all my coworkers who just happen to be Florida Georgia and bama fans. I catch a lot of heat. A lot. But to me this is the biggest orange smokescreen in my entire life. I live ringgold ga and was working in niota two days ago and we went to Cracker Barrel for lunch. Walking out these two older gents and ones wife walked out gossiping about the said "news" from Knoxville an I walked by and said its a smokescreen. They just looked confused that Knoxville media could ever be wrong, gag, and I told them the short version of this and those frowns turned upside down lol. They def left thinking about it. OP I think you are spot on and I stand behind you 100% in my belief on this. Until someone else crosses that stage it's Gruden all the way

Yes! There's 3 of us!
 
#55
#55
Funny how people were hanging on to the dingleberries of every OG out there but when you try to apply a logical approach to the info out there, you wear a tin foil hat. I think some of the OG's were riding coat tails and had no source. That's why they fell apart the first time Hubbs posted something negative instead of saying they would check woth their source for confirmation. I do think there was some truth to a couple of the OG's out there. I think Hargis knows and I think he knows the people directly involved unlike some of the so called OG's on this site. Will we get Gruden? Maybe. Maybe not. The next few weeks will be interesting.
 
#56
#56
Whether you agree or agree to disagree, that is a great read. One note: the group is LMFAO not LMAO.
 
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#57
#57
Well while I'm not gonna say I believe your theory, I also have a part deep down inside of me that wants to hold on to some hope of Gruden coming.
I've began looking into other coaches and of those being named the one I want the most is Strong. I would REALLY love to get Patterson but for some reason his name isn't even being hinted at let alone mentioned. But even after all the news these past couple of days my list still is....
1. Gruden (supposedly not happening)
2. Patterson (not even being mentioned as a candidate)
3. Strong

These are the 3 I would be excited to hear are hired. There are some coaches others consider great candidates being mentioned(Fisher, Gundy, ect...) but none of them are really that impressive and I really don't think their "systems" wouldn't work with the players we have or in the SEC.
 
#58
#58
I came to the same conclusion last week. JG hire made with launch of massive damage control to try to keep it under wraps is the only scenario that logically ties all the little factoids together.

I won't believe otherwise until another coach is introduced as ours.

But now, it is time to be quiet and let this play on out.
 
#59
#59
Long but...found a nice text to speech engine on chrome and listened to it while playing some FIFA at work. While what you said makes sense and I want to believe it, I will stick to thinking he isn't coming for the time being and just be pleasantly surprised if/when it does happen. TBH, I have been nervous about bringing Gruden to UT. The whole "not a proven college coach" thing and the fact that he might want to go back to the NFL fairly quick has made me hesitant. The only things that I am fairly certain about Gruden are: He could recruit like a rock star, he would be able to bring in a great staff, and his game day head coaching skills would far and away trump that of our former coach (i.e game management, time outs, etc). If he comes, hopefully he will come with the determination to outdo Saban in National Championships before he shoves off back to the NFL.
 
#60
#60
I do think it's entirely possible that the cold water thrown on the VN board, Hargis, etc. was done in part (or more than in part) to show that Hart was in charge and more importantly, that local (Knoxville) media could not possibly be shown up by VN posters "in the know". If the VN sources are right, the Knoxville media will need to be the ones to get out of town. But... the power of the pen in hand, they will spin it to show they knew what they were talking about. Uggh.
 
#61
#61
Whether you agree or agree to disagree, that is a great read. One note: the group is LMFAO not LMAO.

Thanks, I know that (sadly, haha). When you post a novel full of conspiracy theories, most of the work goes into trying to make people think you're not completely insane. I'll edit it to fix it :)
 
#62
#62
One more thing about this whole thing that is fishy to me is that Hart has gone from being absolutely "pimp" to being one the angry mob is out to lynch. So much confidence was placed on the man and now calls for him to be fired could be heard throughout the internets. I tend to believe the man could not possibly be botching this job hire as bad as it seems to everyone with orange tinted blood.
 
#63
#63
Glad I'm not the only one that thinks we are being played.

OP, you put it all together better than I did, btw.

It's been a while since I watched the Child's Play (Chucky) movies, but I do remember that no matter how they tried to kill him off at the end of the movie, he kept coming back. I can easily see a scenario where our current Chucky deal isn't dead.

The thought of having Gruden as our HC is so awesome, many of us couldn't really see it actually happening. That's why when today's denials came out, so many are moving to the next list or what now threads. I wonder if the Bammers all gave up the first, second or third time that Saban said he wasn't interested in their job?

So Hyams says the ADept has not had any contact with Gruden (the ADept won't actually make an official offer to anybody that will turn it down, btw)...and LaMonte says the whole thing is a fantasy world (whose fantasy world? Cindy's? Maybe even Gruden's?). Does that mean That high level boosters (or their representatives) haven't had serious discussions - including $$$? Hell no!

So what happens if Jimbo says no...and Stoops and Gundy won't leave (why would they?)...and we finally realize that if we want to compete (play big boy football) in the near future, we might as well pay a Rockstar at today's prices rather than 2015 prices? It is still possible we bring the $$$ he wants for his staff!

What if we hire Fedora or Smart or Golden and 3 or 4 years later it doesn't work out (or they leave - Smart to GA?) and Gruden takes the SD or Dallas job this year or next? Who's the grand slam hire then? Who's the guy that has any history here or whose wife cheered here? If you don't think that stuff matters, then why aren't we talking to Cowher or Holmgren right now?

What if we keep the faith and not panic just because we have one denial? I don't think this deal is dead...a helluva long shot maybe, but not dead.

We are talking about UT football here... A definite top ten program with a storied history. What millionaire, Super Bowl winning coach couldn't fantasize about returning to resurrect the program where he got his first shot as a GA? Make his wife and in-laws awfully happy? Feed that enormous ego with a nation of drooling fans hailing you as the second coming of the General? Take on the challenge of going head to head with the dynast building Saban?

As I have heard more than one person say, I'll know Gruden's not coming when someone else is introduced as our next head coach.

I love being a Sunshine Pumper!!!
 
#64
#64
Thanks, I know that (sadly, haha). When you post a novel full of conspiracy theories, most of the work goes into trying to make people think you're not completely insane. I'll edit it to fix it :)

No problem. Keep up the good work sir!


:hi:
 
#65
#65
Thanks, I know that (sadly, haha). When you post a novel full of conspiracy theories, most of the work goes into trying to make people think you're not completely insane. I'll edit it to fix it :)

I wish there was a way to chat on here...I agree with you 100%......I'd love to run a few things by you....
 
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#66
#66
To get this out of the way: First off, TLDR. Second off, "Gruden isn't coming". There, I know both will be said, but Hell, at least I said 'em first. Cool points for me :thumbsup:

Now, I'm not an "OG." I don't have inside sources. In fact, I take folks with "inside sources" on online forums about as seriously as I take the likelihood of my life changing based off what the note says when I break open a fortune cookie.

That being said - I'm not new to football. I'm not new to following big stories. And I'm not gullible.

To preface this. When I say "fact" - I mean the closest interpretation of factual content, that I, and you, as a reader in an online forum, can gather at this exact moment. They could turn out to be false, in retrospect, but in no way will I serve up simple conjecture as fact. Case in point - I believe a lot of what the OG's have said, but I will not state their "leaks" as fact. Facts need backup. Names, credibility, something to weigh them against. Very few "facts" have come out of this, to this point. With that being said - let's move forward.

First off, the biggest fact in this whole ordeal is this: This is the biggest move in the NCAA's history. Gruden, believe in him as a potential college coach or not, has already developed a legacy. A superbowl ring - coaching said team against a team he built in the championship game, greeting folks every Monday Night with educational, yet entertaining, analysis of the sport we love so much. He's a lovable character, no doubt. Yet, he has a deep-seeded passion for the game.

He also has ties to Knoxville. His wife, as we all know, was a cheerleader here. He was a GA, his first professional coaching job. Also, he plays golf with one of the biggest boosters to our program. These aren't small ties, nor are they fiction. These are all stone cold truths. (Cue Steve Austin? :lol:)

Secondly, in regards to our pursuit of Jon Gruden, the closest thing to fact is the report of Stephen Hargis from the Times Free Press. Those of you who doubt this man, or his credentials, need to do a bit of research. In addition to his article about the Gruden situation, I also personally listened to 4 interviews the next day. He didn't waiver an inch in his stance. This was after LaMonte's statement, after Hyam tried to kill the notion, and after other, vague "kill" stories came out to try and directly make him look like an idiot. He put his 23 year career on the line for this story, with verified sources, and I have no doubt that he was telling the truth.

Final truth: We have been in serious contract negotiations with Jon Gruden.

Now, swallow that for a second. Think about it. The biggest hire in NCAA history, and our team - the University of Tennessee, has been trying to make it happen. Doesn't that make you proud, if nothing else? At least we're going for it.

Moving on, and entering the "opinion" category:

It's a done deal. We have him, have had him, and anything we've heard since Dooley was fired has been a calculated, intentional distraction to bide time for a drop-date for Volunteer sports to celebrate it's biggest "win" since intercepting Florida State in the final minutes of the championship game.

For those of you who have followed the Gruden threads, up to a whopping 14 right now, if you've been there from the getgo - you've seen some things play out that were eerily similar to what "insiders" had suggested would happen. Actually, forget similar. Damn near-verbatim would be better terminology. The money issue....boom fixed, as predicted. The Haslam/Petyon backing - boom, on 11/18, Haslam was quoted as saying Gruden would be a "good fit" for the coaching position.

....

They also, verbatim said, that money for his assistant coaches would be very, very high, and at the last moment things would look extremely bleak, then magically take a turn for the better - with Hart "rushing in to save the day."

Now....I don't know what happened between their own stated opinions playing out the way they thought they would, and the sudden magical emergence of pretty much every OG stating the Gruden deal was dead and over, but sometime around 10 PM Central time on 11/29/2012, hours before the Chattanooga article was about to hit online, Liper, who has been a member for forever, hit the threads stating he'd gotten some weird, potentially bothersome news. He asked around for any other "insiders" to verify his intel. No one responded, some folks got worried, but then, boom - Hargis's article leaked. DONE DEAL, said Volnation. Fireworks went off, big breasted women were linked, men/women of questionable sexual genders were linked....you get the deal. All was great in Volunteer land. Until...

The next morning...

While Vol-land is drinking, calling in sick to work, and generally partying our ass off like LMFAO had hand-written a song for us, Liper's apparent bothersome news hit. Denials from the AD. Craziness that we'd actually be that close to Gruden. There's no way! Proclaimed every media outlet in Knoxville...LaMonte releases a statement that causes Volnation to make sure they have a reasonable copay on their therapist insurance. What went from being a done deal hours earlier, is now dead on arrival. Shut down, shot down, and we have mud on our faces for even thinking we had a chance.

Since then, it's only amplified. Anyone thinking Gruden is still in play is basically pegged as an idiot. Hargis's article, though he's FAR AND AWAY the most credible voice on the situation with factual sources is immediately discredited, we have multiple releases from the AD, though unnamed, saying Gruden isn't on the table anymore, and we have, seriously, five zillion reports about interviewing Fisher, Strong, Fedora, Santa Clause - even though when they get reported they're refuted almost instantaneously the second they're released.

Now. Here's where I stand.

Hargis was on to something big. He's not from Knoxville, thus he couldn't be controlled. We were, and are, still in fact talking with/negotiating with Jon Gruden. If you haven't, read his initial article here:

Former Super Bowl winner Gruden mulls Tennessee Vols' offer | timesfreepress.com

All of the Knoxville media scoffed at the idea Gruden was actually in play. Laughed at the fanbase, threw out mediocre names to try and appease us, and denied any sort of legitimate interest between the two parties. That was, until this story was about to break.

The news of this story coming out was out there. All of a sudden, while the Gruden issue had been a joke before, Knoxville news breaks that a potential meeting between us and him had been cancelled when it wasn't even a possibility before. Fishy? Yes, but it's still bad news. We get upset, wondering why. Tony B's cohost knew about this story leaking, tweeted for Vols fans to look out for it later Thursday night, then immediately deleted his tweet (probably after getting word that a ****storm was about to brew). We're all left hanging in the wind, not knowing what in the blue Hell is going on with our coaching search, of which we have no knowledge of us even looking at any coaches while other teams are.

Thursday night, after the story hits, we've all convinced ourselves that Gruden is a done deal. Folks with bets start paying out money. Heads are probably shaved. Then....mere hours later, it's dead.

To the best of my deductive knowledge - here's what happened.

Jon Gruden has a commitment to ESPN. He's said it, his agent's said it, and if you know anything about Gruden, you know it's probably true. He's signed on to an extension through 2016 with ESPN, but it's very likely there are "outs" in that contract if he pursues a head coaching gig. To mine, and a few other's knowledge, ESPN still owes Gruden 1.1 million dollars for the remainder of this MNF schedule. Like players, they get paid "by the game." If he were to walk out, that's a million dollars wasted. Don't be naive to act like that amount of money doesn't matter, especially to a man that found himself fired 4 years ago.

Secondly, if it appears that he's operated beyond the good faith arrangement in his contract, pursuing outside employment while still collecting his paychecks - he could very likely find himself in breach of contract, out of the money he is owed, and muddied up by the negative press ESPN could bring (and maybe would) in frustration that they'd lost one of their hottest new commodities.

It's in my firm opinion that Volsnations insiders, and Stephen Hargis, got too close to this story. In this day, nothing can be trusted in a hire this big. If you tell your dog what's going on, she'll be on an iPad 10 minutes later barking over Skype to the local pound, which will spread to twitter, to the forums, etc, etc, etc. You get it. Nothing is sacred in newsbreaking anymore. Very, very few folks are actually privy to what goes on in these high-end deals towards the final stages. While I trust and respect what the OGs brought to the table, I think it simply got too close to the truth, and Hargis's article made everything a headline.

It had to be shut down.

Hence the "all of a sudden" knowledgeable Knoxville media on the Gruden angle who had been clueless about any possibility merely days before. Hence the emergence of all these "coaching searches" that we hadn't heard hide nor hair of days before, yet all seem to get refuted when people directly question the coach. Hence, the release of Gruden's agent, LaMonte about the "fantasy land" we're living in with Gruden. If you read Hargis's article closely, he never says we've been in contact with LaMonte - just Gruden, hence giving both an "out" that they hadn't breached a good faith portion of a contract that Jon's currently signed under.

It got too hot, plain and simple. Hargis was about to scoop the homerun story of his, or really any journalists career, and (in my opinion) this had to have leaked out. This story would put Gruden and UT on the hotseat and a deal would have to be worked out immediately to appease the (natural) fan frenzy. Hargis fact checked it, had his editor verify it, and it ended up on the front page of the newspaper. Tell me, does that sound like a made up story to you? A reporter of 23 years? However, in his delay to verify his information, it must've gotten out that it was about to hit. Hence the "hangup" in his article between Gruden and his assistant coaches. It would have cost him 1.1 million dollars had they not raced to throw some sort of "bull**** factor" into this story. There's no doubt in my mind that the AD and Gruden got wind that this story was breaking and threw some kind of monkey wrench in the whole thing to look like either a deal wasn't taking place or that it wasn't nearly as "done" as he was about to admit. I mean, really, what kind of inept department would let an assistant coaching staff salary dictate whether they hired the biggest name in NCAA history? It doesn't make sense.

Yet, he had to go with what he heard. He had to include that - the AD and Gruden had to distance themselves from the deal to make it look like it had:
1) Never come close to happening.
2.) Had maybe come close but fell apart.
3.) Jon's only focused on ESPN right now, nothing else matters.


As fans, and readers, we got a little bit of all of the above - which didn't, nor shouldn't make sense to any of us, unless you follow the narrative I've painted above.

This deal, in my (maybe notso) humble opinion is happening, and has happened for awhile now. Follow the money, follow the non-denials from Hart, Gruden, or a Haslem. All we've heard "officially" are from contradictory sources who didn't know ANYTHING the day before, have a terrible track record, or are from an agent who would lose his client 1.1 million dollars if he pretended anything legit had been taking place up to that point.

Gruden is coming folks. Read between the lines, stop jumping all over every tweet that has a coaches name in it, and most importantly - use some common sense when you decide who you want to trust in all this.

We have one guy who's vetted his 23 year career on the line for the authenticity of his story versus multiple Knoxville folks who have about as much authenticity as the Babe Ruth signed baseball mitt I just bought off eBay for 12 dollars.

Think about it :hi:

well written and hope you are right
 
#67
#67
enough already on Gruden....it's all in the past and about everyone in football from college to NFL have said Gruden is all NFL period and long shot at best. I'm sure some Grudenites will continue with theories on why he didn't sign or get signed along with blaming Hart. Move on to the future.
 
#69
#69
good grief people have too much time on their hands. typing essays in their spare time. really?
 
#70
#70
Great summation Mac. I'm still holding out hope.

Thanks, and there's no reason NOT to hold out hope, REGARDLESS of the lengths I went to to try and prove my point in the initial post.

The fact of it all is this:

Hart could have killed this a long time ago. Both he and the boosters, and us, we all know that if it's not Gruden - it's a disappointment. Any press release, or quote verbatim from his own mouth, even something as subtle as "waiting until the Bowl games are over" to fully enter his coaching search would do a lot for killing this Gruden frenzy.

They haven't done that. At all. If anything, they've played into it and let the flame build up to damn-near inferno levels. They're not dumb. There either has to be a massive payoff for all this, or a monumental letdown. If your job depended on the satisfaction of your clientele (and a large percentage of the folks paying your salary), regardless of wins or losses, would you let this situation play out like this if it didn't bring great news at the end? Hate him now, and we do (don't get me wrong), Hart's gonna look like a genius/savior when this all goes down.

As smart and qualified as we all are, there's a reason he has the job he has, and there's no chance in Hell he doesn't know the risks at stake here for blowing this.

It'll come to fruition. It's just gonna take some patience, but...with that patience should build an ever-increasing sense of faith that the end-game is all coming together. Put stock in that. :thumbsup:
 
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#71
#71
thanks bro for your snarky response! Glad u took teh time 2 read my post!!!1!!1 you look really cool 4 tellign me i wrote alot of wordz that u didnt find factual!!!1!!1

i will consider ur opinion in my next writeup!!!1!1 thnxxx again!!!1

We haven't seen you over on the Mane lately. I've been wondering where you went.
 
#72
#72
Thanks man. You and I will be getting some serious kudos when it turns out we're right.

Now I think we're just on Gruden's timetable. And I don't think that will be until at the very earliest December 18th. I know its' a dead period, but Gruden has got to finish the Monday night football period. He can't just walk out like you said.

Meanwhile, this fan base is going to get more and more ticked as things fall through, and our job looks like crap, and nobody wants it.

Patience. I'm with you MacGruder.

If this is true who will hold a recruiting class together?
When could Gruden announce?
 
#73
#73
I'm very cautious but agree with a lot of points the OP made. Great write up by the way, I think anyone can agree on that no matter their stance on Gruden.
 
#74
#74
Well written. I'm not sure I agree with it 100%, but it lays out a potential timeline and framework far better than the mouth-breathing "Twitter-length or TL:DR" generation that's flushing our world down the drain.

We need more thoughtful posters on this board. The slobbering knuckle-draggers who exhibit both the attention span and written fluency of an academically deficient third grader make it a chore to sift through for the good stuff.
 
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#75
#75
Nice write up OP. I have two questions...what are OG's (I know OG stands for Original Gangsters) is that what everyone is referring too? And number two. Jimmy Hyams has the reputation of reporting everything late, but people think he's getting news first on this?
 

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