Malcolm Gladwell

#51
#51
Wait are you implying that the kids can't consent? Because I'm pretty sure I can dig up a thread of you saying Sandusky shouldn't be charged b/c the kids had the ability to consent to have sex with him

Dig it up and see that you are incorrect. What I am stating is that there is an inconsistency between our attitudes about consent and sex, and consent and severe physical trauma.

I don't know how it works in your family but my kids choose what they want to do and I give the consent as their guardian.

Choice is consent; if you can actually choose and be responsible for those choices, you can consent. Therefore, if you state that a child cannot consent, then a child cannot choose to take on the responsibilities and the risks associated with football. If this is the case, then middle school and some high school football is not that much different than dog fighting.
 
#52
#52
If college football is ever banned, how long before the rest of college sports go?
 
#53
#53
Dig it up and see that you are incorrect. What I am stating is that there is an inconsistency between our attitudes about consent and sex, and consent and severe physical trauma.



Choice is consent; if you can actually choose and be responsible for those choices, you can consent. Therefore, if you state that a child cannot consent, then a child cannot choose to take on the responsibilities and the risks associated with football. If this is the case, then middle school and some high school football is not that much different than dog fighting.

Until a kid turns eighteen....the parents give the consent......that is why I have to sign a piece of paper giving consent any time one of my kid plays a sport.
 
#54
#54
Until a kid turns eighteen....the parents give the consent......that is why I have to sign a piece of paper giving consent any time one of my kid plays a sport.

I am tracking; what I want to know is how you think this is so different from, and better than, dog fighting?
 
#55
#55
Until a kid turns eighteen....the parents give the consent......that is why I have to sign a piece of paper giving consent any time one of my kid plays a sport.
My parents had no issue with me playing football. If they had evidence that shows that football could have such a detrimental effect on the brain, even without playing for many years, I'm not sure they would have. I know many parents would not let their kids play if it is revealed even playing though high school would have many negative effects on the brain.
 
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#56
#56
My parents had no issue with me playing football. If they had evidence that shows that football could have such a detrimental effect on the brain, even without playing for many years, I'm not sure they would have. I know many parents would not let their kids play if it is revealed even playing though high school would have many negative effects on the brain.

I grew up playing football. I started playing while we were living in the panhandle of Texas (Amarillo) and continued playing through high school. I love the game; however, I also had three concussions (one major concussion) in high school and one concussion since. Even prior to the release of these studies, the idea of encouraging any future sons to play football was something I was averse to. Now, in light of these studies, there is no way I will be signing them up to play football in elementary and middle school, and I will discourage them from playing in high school.
 
#57
#57
My parents had no issue with me playing football. If they had evidence that shows that football could have such a detrimental effect on the brain, even without playing for many years, I'm not sure they would have. I know many parents would not let their kids play if it is revealed even playing though high school would have many negative effects on the brain.

And that is your parents and other parents rights but don't take away my right as a parent to allow my kids to play.
 
#59
#59
I grew up playing football. I started playing while we were living in the panhandle of Texas (Amarillo) and continued playing through high school. I love the game; however, I also had three concussions (one major concussion) in high school and one concussion since. Even prior to the release of these studies, the idea of encouraging any future sons to play football was something I was averse to. Now, in light of these studies, there is no way I will be signing them up to play football in elementary and middle school, and I will discourage them from playing in high school.

I will be signing mine up and sending them to football camp in Nashville when they turn eight.
 
#61
#61
Right...I am sure that you are not forcing them to play.

I have three kids that live and die sports....2 boys 1 girl.....and 1 girl that can't stand the thought of them....she does dance cheer leading....this tumbling stuff.....if I was going to force anyone it would be her bc it is hard forcing that smile at all those recitals lol
 
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#62
#62
Dig it up and see that you are incorrect. What I am stating is that there is an inconsistency between our attitudes about consent and sex, and consent and severe physical trauma.

when pressed by individuals like DarthVisor on the question of whether a 10-year-old who possessed such rational independence and maturity should be permitted to engage in such acts, I said yes

So a 13 y/o cant consent to playing football, but a 10 y/o can consent to showering with a 50 year old man. Makes sense

http://www.volnation.com/forum/pub/159605-letalvis-cobbins-one-thugs-involved-christian-4.html
 
#63
#63
So a 13 y/o cant consent to playing football, but a 10 y/o can consent to showering with a 50 year old man. Makes sense

http://www.volnation.com/forum/pub/159605-letalvis-cobbins-one-thugs-involved-christian-4.html

Are you knowingly and willingly lying, or are you just so ignorant that you do not understand the context?

My argument was that consent, for it to be actual consent, requires rational independence and maturity; when pressed by individuals like DarthVisor on the question of whether a 10-year-old who possessed such rational independence and maturity should be permitted to engage in such acts, I said yes. In such a hypothetical situation, what would the objection be? Only that it is 'obscene' to those not involved.

Do you have any more untruths to spew? Or, are you done?

If a 13-year-old cannot consent, because they have not achieved rational independence and maturity, then why is it okay to force them into a situation in which they are exposed to a high risk of traumatic brain injury?
 
#64
#64
Are you knowingly and willingly lying, or are you just so ignorant that you do not understand the context?



Do you have any more untruths to spew? Or, are you done?

If a 13-year-old cannot consent, because they have not achieved rational independence and maturity, then why is it okay to force them into a situation in which they are exposed to a high risk of traumatic brain injury?

There is a risk but I wouldnt classify it as high risk.....did your dad have to force u to play sports? My dad would have had to beat me with a stick to get me off the field.

Comparing playing football to being molested by a fifty yr old man is asinine.
 
#65
#65
There is a risk but I wouldnt classify it as high risk.....did your dad have to force u to play sports? My dad would have had to beat me with a stick to get me off the field.

Comparing playing football to being molested by a fifty yr old man is asinine.

My dad did not have to force me to play sports; however, he did restrain me from, and/or discipline me after partaking in activities that I wanted to partake in but which he deemed too risky (bottle rocket and Roman candle wars, bb gun fights, etc.)

Surely, examining the notion of consent is not asinine.
 
#66
#66
My dad did not have to force me to play sports; however, he did restrain me from, and/or discipline me after partaking in activities that I wanted to partake in but which he deemed too risky (bottle rocket and Roman candle wars, bb gun fights, etc.)

Surely, examining the notion of consent is not asinine.

See that's the point......your dad was the one giving you consent.

And comparing child rape to playing football is asinine....there can be no consent for child rape......I don't think youth football is that dangerous.
 
#67
#67
See that's the point......your dad was the one giving you consent.

No, my father was consenting for me; had he known I would incur three concussions in four years, I guarantee he would have refused that consent from the beginning.

And comparing child rape to playing football is asinine....there can be no consent for child rape......I don't think youth football is that dangerous.

Is sex (even rape) worse than traumatic brain injury and brain damage?

Sexual molestation is assault; the reason it is assault is because the victim does not possess the capacity to consent; so, if a young person does not possess the capacity to consent and is then goes and sustains a traumatic brain injury, how is that not assault? If fact, I would argue that the long-term effects of multiple and recurring brain damage are as bad or worse than the long term effects of sexual assault. So, if young persons are prohibited from the latter activity due to a lack of capacity to consent, how is it consistent to say that they should not be prohibited from the former (football)?

It would be great if the Purdue study was critically flawed; unfortunately, it has been reviewed and the results appear to be conclusive. Have you read the study? It is quite shocking. Here is a taste:

An estimated 3.8 million sports-related traumatic brain injuries (TBIs) occur in the United States every year (Langlois et al., 2006), many of which are concussions (Gessel et al., 2007). Repeated concussions have been linked to early-onset Alzheimer's disease (Guskiewicz et al., 2005), depression (McCrory et al., 2009), dementia (Guskiewicz et al., 2005), and chronic traumatic encephalopathy (McKee et al., 2009).
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The models relating the left and right middle frontal gyrus (MFG; Table 3 and Table 4) are of particular interest because neuropsychological tests have indicated that changes in MFG activation are related to measureable decreases in verbal and visual working memory that have been documented in concussed indivdiuals (Hoskison et al., 2009).
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During this time, individuals may be in a vulnerable state, so that the blow that results in symptoms is the “straw that broke the camel's back.” If this concern is valid, a particular blow may cause a “physiological bifurcation” that places the brain in a distinct pathophysiological regime, much in the way that minor injuries precondition an eventual catastrophic tear in musculoskeletal soft tissues. Certainly, if concussion were a purely acute injury, the very strong connection we observed between blow history and neurophysiological changes should not exist.
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In their study, 21% of the football players had concussions; 59% experienced material brain changes. The risks are extremely high.
 
#68
#68
No, my father was consenting for me; had he known I would incur three concussions in four years, I guarantee he would have refused that consent from the beginning.



Is sex (even rape) worse than traumatic brain injury and brain damage?

Sexual molestation is assault; the reason it is assault is because the victim does not possess the capacity to consent; so, if a young person does not possess the capacity to consent and is then goes and sustains a traumatic brain injury, how is that not assault? If fact, I would argue that the long-term effects of multiple and recurring brain damage are as bad or worse than the long term effects of sexual assault. So, if young persons are prohibited from the latter activity due to a lack of capacity to consent, how is it consistent to say that they should not be prohibited from the former (football)?

It would be great if the Purdue study was critically flawed; unfortunately, it has been reviewed and the results appear to be conclusive. Have you read the study? It is quite shocking. Here is a taste:



In their study, 21% of the football players had concussions; 59% experienced material brain changes. The risks are extremely high.

I went and read the reports and I have read other reports also.....the purdue reports said that their findings were inconclusive and the researchers were not sure what they meant.

They said although there were changes in brain function that the brain adapted and there was no change in actual functioning.

The volbeast study states that I know several people that have played high school football and some diagnosed with concussions including myself and they are no different than the ones that didn't play football......pretty good odds to me.
 
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#69
#69
I went and read the reports and I have read other reports also.....the purdue reports said that their findings were inconclusive and the researchers were not sure what they meant.

They said although there were changes in brain function that the brain adapted and there was no change in actual functioning.

The volbeast study states that I know several people that have played high school football and some diagnosed with concussions including myself and they are no different than the ones that didn't play football......pretty good odds to me.

Could you please quote where they state that the findings are 'inconclusive'?

The name of the study is: Biomechanical correlates of symptomatic and asymptomatic neurophysiological impairment in high school football.

It can be found in the Journal of Biomechanics, Volume 45, Issue 7.
 
#70
#70
Could you please quote where they state that the findings are 'inconclusive'?

The name of the study is: Biomechanical correlates of symptomatic and asymptomatic neurophysiological impairment in high school football.

It can be found in the Journal of Biomechanics, Volume 45, Issue 7.

I did a Google.search on pursue study for concussions.....first article on Feb 2 2012
 
#71
#71
I did a Google.search on pursue study for concussions.....first article on Feb 2 2012

I suggest you actually read the study; I also assume that your statement that the study is inconclusive and that they do not know what it all means is in relation to the following statement:

"Any change in fMRI data is a concern, but we don't yet know what these changes mean, what they translate to, in terms of cognitive impairment," Breedlove said.

That is not inconclusive in terms of changes to the brain; it is only inconclusive in terms of what long-term cognitive impairment will result. There are reasons they do not know what this means, viz.: (1) they need time to assess these individuals over years and decades; (2) they need solid baselines to compare their cognitive capacity and development against, which will require a multitude of non-football players that must be studies over years and decades.

It is conclusive though that 59% of the players studied experienced significant brain changes.
 
#72
#72
I suggest you actually read the study; I also assume that your statement that the study is inconclusive and that they do not know what it all means is in relation to the following statement:



That is not inconclusive in terms of changes to the brain; it is only inconclusive in terms of what long-term cognitive impairment will result. There are reasons they do not know what this means, viz.: (1) they need time to assess these individuals over years and decades; (2) they need solid baselines to compare their cognitive capacity and development against, which will require a multitude of non-football players that must be studies over years and decades.

It is conclusive though that 59% of the players studied experienced significant brain changes.

And no functional changes in the players.... Meaning they don't know if its negatively affecting individuals or not
 
#73
#73
And no functional changes in the players.... Meaning they don't know if its negatively affecting individuals or not

Right, because it has only been a year, and functional changes from TBIs manifest themselves over decades. The study will not be "conclusive" in the manner you desire until twenty or thirty years from now, when they have examined the cognitive impairment of these kids. It is conclusive in that material changes are occurring in their brain matter.

It was a great and fun sport; however, the risks are heavy enough that one should have to be able to consent in order to play. Maybe high school age kids are capable of consent; but, you might as well allow them to drink, smoke cigarettes, and smoke weed as well, as they should be regarded as consenting adults if they are allowed to partake in an activity in which 59% of the participants will suffer material brain changes (by the way, these changes are negative changes, so let's just call it damage).
 
#74
#74
And no functional changes in the players.... Meaning they don't know if its negatively affecting individuals or not

Beast... You are wasting your time with this guy. Just do what I do and make a mental note, so whenever you see him post you will say to yourself "oh it's the guy who doesn't have a problem with Jerry Sandusky". And then you carry on with your day
 
#75
#75
Beast... You are wasting your time with this guy. Just do what I do and make a mental note, so whenever you see him post you will say to yourself "oh it's the guy who doesn't have a problem with Jerry Sandusky". And then you carry on with your day

Another willful untruth; for a Christian you sure lie your ass off all the time.

I have huge problems with Jerry Sandusky; I think the man is probably a rapist. But, again, continue to take whatever it is I have said out of context in order to feel superior because you do not have an argument as to why high school football should be allowed if there are no critical flaws in the study that was released by Purdue University.
 

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