Malcolm Gladwell

I haven't seen the study? How thorough was it? Is it assuming that they would walk away from HS with 0 brain damage without football? I'm pretty sure I would have done some very stupid stuff if I hadn't been busy with football.

The Purdue study only compasses two years (and, is still ongoing); it's first year results have already been replicated in other studies. However, it is not thorough in that the sample size is still very small; but, even in a small sample size, a return of 59% negative brain changes, leading to brain activity that highly correlates with "measureable decreases in verbal and visual working memory" is quite shocking, and was shocking to the lead researcher on the project.

They do assume that the vast majority non-athletes would walk away from football 0 brain damage. This past year, they extended their study to soccer; however, the G's experienced in the fiercest measured soccer header were half of the the average football collision.

The Purdue study was groundbreaking enough that many more studies will be initiated (again, some already were halfway through the Purdue study) across the nation. If the results continue to be replicated, I see no way that Congress does not get involved and at least hold hearings on high school football.
 
Ok finally read the real report and what you are claiming....they are saying that concussions happen from adding up all the hits a player has and the one that gives outward symptoms is just a culmination of all the hits added....the study is not meant to show any future brain damage to the individual person.

The study cannot show any future cognitive impairment because the study has only been occurring for two years. This does not mean that any of the researchers thinks that negative brain changes that are in other studies highly correlated to cognitive impairment are not reasonable expectations; they simply will not make a judgment until the data from their study is available (which will take decades, by the way).
 
The study cannot show any future cognitive impairment because the study has only been occurring for two years. This does not mean that any of the researchers thinks that negative brain changes that are in other studies highly correlated to cognitive impairment are not reasonable expectations; they simply will not make a judgment until the data from their study is available (which will take decades, by the way).

All the tests showed was the players had very very minor concussion type symptoms and made them more succeptible to having a concussion
 
The Purdue study only compasses two years (and, is still ongoing); it's first year results have already been replicated in other studies. However, it is not thorough in that the sample size is still very small; but, even in a small sample size, a return of 59% negative brain changes, leading to brain activity that highly correlates with "measureable decreases in verbal and visual working memory" is quite shocking, and was shocking to the lead researcher on the project.

They do assume that the vast majority non-athletes would walk away from football 0 brain damage. This past year, they extended their study to soccer; however, the G's experienced in the fiercest measured soccer header were half of the the average football collision.

The Purdue study was groundbreaking enough that many more studies will be initiated (again, some already were halfway through the Purdue study) across the nation. If the results continue to be replicated, I see no way that Congress does not get involved and at least hold hearings on high school football.

I've seen some pretty nasty head collisions in soccer. Nobody plays a lot without bumping their head once or twice, but I doubt with the lack of frequency it results in long term damage.
 
I would be more impressed if they actually studied the brains of players that lived long healthy productive lives instead of just the ones that had emotional breaks.

There is a program for that. Its just that it is fairly new so there haven't been a lot of players that have died of old age yet that have signed up for it. Several years ago Frank Wycheck said that he had agreed to the program.
 
All the tests showed was the players had very very minor concussion type symptoms and made them more succeptible to having a concussion

Negative.

Concussion is a growing public health issue in the United States, and chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE) is the chief long-term concern linked to repeated concussions. Recently, attention has shifted toward subconcussive blows and the role they may play in the development of CTE. We recruited a cohort of high school football players for two seasons of observation. Acceleration sensors were placed in the helmets, and all contact activity was monitored. Pre-season computer-based neuropsychological tests and functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) tests were also obtained in order to assess cognitive and neurophysiological health. In-season follow-up scans were then obtained both from individuals who had sustained a clinically-diagnosed concussion and those who had not. These changes were then related through stepwise regression to history of blows recorded throughout the football season up to the date of the scan. In addition to those subjects who had sustained a concussion, a substantial portion of our cohort who did not sustain concussions showed significant neurophysiological changes. Stepwise regression indicated significant relationships between the number of blows sustained by a subject and the ensuing neurophysiological change. Our findings reinforce the hypothesis that the effects of repetitive blows to the head are cumulative and that repeated exposure to subconcussive blows is connected to pathologically altered neurophysiology.
=====
The purpose of this study was to characterize the magnitude, location, and number of blows sustained by athletes participating in high school football and to establish correlations between these blows and ensuing changes in neurophysiology. According to Talavage et al. (2010), three distinct impairment groups are observable among high school football athletes: those with clinically observed impairment and functional impairment as measured by fMRI and neuropsychological testing (COI+/FOI+), those with no outward symptoms and no functional impairment (COI−/FOI−), and those with no outward symptoms but substantial functional impairment (COI−/FOI+). This work extended that study with the incorporation of a second season of data, also classifying subjects into one of the three impairment groups, and identified the biomechanical characteristics that correspond with their classification... we found significant regressions for the COI−/FOI+ and COI+/FOI+ groups consistent with progressive neurophysiological changes with accumulated blows to the head. These findings are consistent with our season 1 results (Talavage et al., 2010) and support the hypothesis of cumulative subconcussive damage ( [Field Hearing: Legal Issues Relating to Football Head Injuries, 2010] and [McKee et al., 2009]).

I have no idea how it is you arrived at the conclusion you state above, when this clearly states the research supports the hypothesis that subconcussive trauma is correlated with functional impairment.
 
Negative.



I have no idea how it is you arrived at the conclusion you state above, when this clearly states the research supports the hypothesis that subconcussive trauma is correlated with functional impairment.

If you read all the articles involving this study and not just pinpoint what you want you find significant.....the functional impairment you refer too is the subconcussion itself not any outward functional impairment and makes the individual more likely to have a concussion with outward symptoms.
 
Then he gets a really bad concussion......life is to be lived......its not to put yourself in a bubble so u never get hurt.......noone lives forever......we all die eventually......more people die in car wrecks then any other way but I'm still going to let them drive a car.....I'm going to teach them how to take care of theirselves though

I got one thing to say to you:

Screw you.
 
Three quick things:

1) My kids will never play what we consider football now.

2) I am starting to have a hard time watching football, especially after Seau's death.

3) I completely understand Bisinger's point. I also want to agree with it.
 
Three quick things:

1) My kids will never play what we consider football now.

2) I am starting to have a hard time watching football, especially after Seau's death.

3) I completely understand Bisinger's point. I also want to agree with it.

Here is another take, by Professor Gary Gutting, on college athletics:

Throughout the tournament, announcers and commentators careful enough to heed the insistence of the National Collegiate Athletic Association, will refer to the players as “student-athletes.”

But is this term accurate? Or should we perhaps leave it behind for a more honest and precise name?

The term “student-athletes” implies that all enrolled students who play college sports are engaged in secondary (“extra-curricular”) activities that enhance their education. Their status, the term suggests, is essentially the same as members of the debate team or the band. As the N.C.A.A. puts it, “Student-athletes must, therefore, be students first.”
=====
The N.C.A.A.Â’s own 2011 survey showed that by a wide variety of measures the answer is no. For example, football and menÂ’s basketball players (who are my primary focus here) identify themselves more strongly as athletes than as students, gave more weight in choosing their college to athletics than to academics, and, at least in season, spend more time on athletics than on their studies (and a large majority say they spend as much or more time on sports during the off-season).

The same priority is reflected in the collegesÂ’ own practices. Football and menÂ’s basketball players are admitted and given full scholarships almost entirely because of their athletic abilities. Academic criteria for their admission are far below those for other students (for example, their average SAT scores are about 200 points lower than those of nonathletes). Realistically, given the amount of time most such athletes devote to their sports, they would have to be academically superior to the average student to do as well in their classes. As a result, according to another N.C.A.A. report, the graduation rate (given six years to complete the degree) for football players is 16 percent below the college average, and the rate for menÂ’s basketball players is 25 percent below. Even these numbers understate the situation, since colleges provide underqualified athletes with advisers who point them toward easier courses and majors and offer extraordinary amounts of academic coaching and tutoring, primarily designed to keep athletes eligible to play.
=====
At a minimum, thereÂ’s the harm of saying that players are primarily students when they are not. This is a falsehood institutionalized for the benefit of a profit-making system, and educational institutions should have no part in it.

The deeper harm, however, lies in the fact that, in the United States, there is a strong strain of anti-intellectualism that undervalues intellectual culture and overvalues athletics. As a result, intellectual culture receives far less support than it should, and is generally regarded as at best the idiosyncratic interest of an eccentric minority. Athletics, by contrast, is more than generously funded and embraced as an essential part of our national life.

When colleges, our main centers of intellectual culture, lower standards of academic excellence in order to increase standards of athletic excellence, they implicitly support the popular marginalization of the intellectual enterprise. It is often said that the money brought in by athletics supports educational programs. But the large majority of schools lose money on athletics, and the fact that some depend on sports income confirms, in monetary terms, the perceived superiority of athletics.
=====
But there is a way that profit-making athletic powerhouses could avoid the hypocrisy of the student-athlete.

They could admit athletes who fall far short of their regular academic criteria as “associate students” (or maybe even “athlete-students”), who take just two or three courses a term and are not expected to receive a bachelor’s degree after four years. They would instead receive an associate’s degree (like that currently awarded by some colleges), which would, after four years, put them in a position to gain regular admission to a college where they could complete a bachelor’s degree in two more years. (There would, of course, still be athletes who met standard criteria of admission and so would be expected to earn a regular degree in four years.)

This would end the bad faith involved in pretending that unqualified students, devoted primarily to playing sports, could truly earn a bachelorÂ’s degree. But it would also give a significant educational purpose to the under-qualified athleteÂ’s four years on campus.

Although this is hardly an ideal solution, itÂ’s better than trying to maintain the myth of the student-athlete. But what a magnificent gesture it would be if, say, a school with a legendary and lucrative football program could find the courage to give up the money and the glory for a ringing endorsement of intellectual values.

The Myth of the 'Student-Athlete' - NYTimes.com
 
Here is another take, by Professor Gary Gutting, on college athletics:

There is no doubt college athletics has become a business and not an extracirricular activity.

The question is this: Is this okay?
 
There is no doubt college athletics has become a business and not an extracirricular activity.

The question is this: Is this okay?

I would say that it is okay so long as money is not being diverted away from academics, and academic institutions are not lowering their standards or soiling their integrity in an effort to attract and keep athletes. Athletic departments should be self-sustaining (to include funding their own scholarships) or they should go away (of course, this entails letting each athletic department select what sports they want to keep, thus discarding Title IX).
 
I would say that it is okay so long as money is not being diverted away from academics, and academic institutions are not lowering their standards or soiling their integrity in an effort to attract and keep athletes. Athletic departments should be self-sustaining (to include funding their own scholarships) or they should go away (of course, this entails letting each athletic department select what sports they want to keep, thus discarding Title IX).

I'm curious how much money is diverted away from academics to athletics.
 
I'm curious how much money is diverted away from academics to athletics.

A lot.

Revenue Definitions. Revenues appearing on the athletics budget are now grouped as either (1) allocated revenues or (2) generated revenues. The former are comprised of:
• student fees directly allocated to athletics;
• direct institutional support, which are financial transfers directly from the general fund to athletics;
• indirect institutional support, such as the payment of utilities, maintenance, support salaries, etc. by the institution in behalf of athletics, and
• direct governmental support – the receipt of funds from state and local governmental agencies that are designated for athletics.

Generated revenues are produced by the athletics department and include ticket sales, radio and television receipts, alumni contributions, guarantees, royalties, NCAA distributions, and other revenue sources that
are not dependent upon entities outside the athletics department.

Allocated revenues (those provided by the institution or state government) as a percentage of total revenues have remained steady at 71 percent since 2006. (4.14)

A total of 22 FBS athletics programs reported positive net generated revenues in 2010, up from 14 in 2009. (3.5)

As in previous years, no athletics programs reported net generated revenues in 2010. The median negative net generated revenue (expenses in excess of generated revenues) in 2009 was $8,704,000 and $9,789,000 in 2010. The net losses have increased steadily over the seven year period. (4.5)

http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/2010RevExp.pdf
 
Three quick things:

1) My kids will never play what we consider football now.

2) I am starting to have a hard time watching football, especially after Seau's death.

3) I completely understand Bisinger's point. I also want to agree with it.

If you don't want your kids to play football then don't let them play football bit don't infringe on my kids rights to play the game they love.

I'm sick about seau's death too but it does not Chang my love of the game.
 

I don't think those numbers are truly accurate...they stated ut reported a net loss but that was bc money was diverted from the program to the school and to other sports program.

Can't see schools paying all these buyouts and huge contracts if they are losing that much money on them...it makes no economic sense.
 
I don't think those numbers are truly accurate...they stated ut reported a net loss but that was bc money was diverted from the program to the school and to other sports program.

Can't see schools paying all these buyouts and huge contracts if they are losing that much money on them...it makes no economic sense.

The report stated nothing specifically about UT; however, the following is according to the official income report for UT Athletics:
Gross Revenue: $71.3M
Gross Expenses: $71.8M

Institutional and Government Revenue: $7.5M
Institutional and Government Expenses (money diverted back to the school): $5.2M

NCAA Financial Reports Database | IndyStar.com

So, UTAD experienced a Net Loss of around $500K; and the differential in institutional support shows that they received $2.5M more than they paid back out.

The taxpayers and those paying tuition to UT are directly supporting the Athletic Department at UT; it is not self-sufficient.
 
If you don't want your kids to play football then don't let them play football bit don't infringe on my kids rights to play the game they love.

Do you think underage drinking and smoking laws should be repealed? After all, don't my kids have a right to do what they love? There is no definitive causal relation between drinking and smoking when one is 14, 15, 16 and detrimental health later; there is only a high correlation.
 
The problem is that concussions aren't easy to diagnose or treat. Most likely beyond the ability of the local general practitioner that volunteers his time at the local HS game and most definitely beyond the ability of the grasshopper level dad-coach with no medical background.
 
Do you think underage drinking and smoking laws should be repealed? After all, don't my kids have a right to do what they love? There is no definitive causal relation between drinking and smoking when one is 14, 15, 16 and detrimental health later; there is only a high correlation.

Look at sportsline.com........they have an article up where occupational safety and health board did a study and football players live longer on average than the general population.....they are getting ready to do a study on alzheimers disease Parkinson's and dementia to see how it compares to the general population.
 
Do you think underage drinking and smoking laws should be repealed? After all, don't my kids have a right to do what they love? There is no definitive causal relation between drinking and smoking when one is 14, 15, 16 and detrimental health later; there is only a high correlation.

Drinking and smoking is way different than playing a sport which many people love. Should we stop playing all sports in the possibility that a broken bone can happen. You assume that Junior Seau did not have a rational mind at all, making it seem that he committed suicide as a psychopath. Junior did not seem to exhibit any of those symptoms while he was making money in the NFL. There are many reasons a person kills them self.

I played football in High School despite of my parents concern. I am around the legal drinking limit in age. Unless we are extremely stupid, we knew when we had a concussion. Concussion awareness is all over the coaches agenda when its around spring ball. We always knew the risk of playing football, but we did it anyways. Do not assume when you do not know.

Would you rather have your son smoking, doing drugs, and drinking on his own after school opposed to playing football with a solid moral foundation, and a miniature community?
 
Look at sportsline.com........they have an article up where occupational safety and health board did a study and football players live longer on average than the general population.....they are getting ready to do a study on alzheimers disease Parkinson's and dementia to see how it compares to the general population.

That's because they are in better physical shape than the general population. They're like the 380,000 mile Volvo that has had routine tune ups, repairs and oil changes as opposed to a regular joe who is like the 75,000 mile Focus that might get the oil changed every now and then and eventually gets that knock fixed, and oh yeah the windshield is cracked, but whatever. I don't know why you're fighting back so hard at the possibility of multiple head injuries causing the decay of mental health. Do these players know the risks going in? Sure. Does that mean we totally ignore what happens to some after their playing days? Absolutely not. What we can learn now about the effects of head trauma could potentially make the game safer for your sons one day.
 
That's because they are in better physical shape than the general population. They're like the 380,000 mile Volvo that has had routine tune ups, repairs and oil changes as opposed to a regular joe who is like the 75,000 mile Focus that might get the oil changed every now and then and eventually gets that knock fixed, and oh yeah the windshield is cracked, but whatever. I don't know why you're fighting back so hard at the possibility of multiple head injuries causing the decay of mental health. Do these players know the risks going in? Sure. Does that mean we totally ignore what happens to someo after their playing days? Absolutely not. What we can learn now about the effects of head trauma could potentially make the game safer for your sons one day.

I'm not fighting back....just disussing but the discussion is not about making the game safer.....its about whether high school football or above should be done away with....I'm all for making it safer within reason.....don't want it to look like flag football...LOL
 
Drinking and smoking is way different than playing a sport which many people love.

If the argument is that individuals who are not able to consent should be able to do what they love, regardless of the high correlation to negative consequences, then how is playing high school football different from drinking and smoking? Why are there laws against the latter but not against the former?

Should we stop playing all sports in the possibility that a broken bone can happen. You assume that Junior Seau did not have a rational mind at all, making it seem that he committed suicide as a psychopath. Junior did not seem to exhibit any of those symptoms while he was making money in the NFL. There are many reasons a person kills them self.

Individuals that are thinking rationally do not commit suicide.

I played football in High School despite of my parents concern. I am around the legal drinking limit in age. Unless we are extremely stupid, we knew when we had a concussion. Concussion awareness is all over the coaches agenda when its around spring ball. We always knew the risk of playing football, but we did it anyways. Do not assume when you do not know.

I had 3 concussions in high school and one after high school. I knew the risks; I have also known the risks associated with drinking and smoking, and I partake in those activities daily.

Maybe I was extremely stupid, but when I had my first concussion, I continued to practice. I felt a little woozy. I drove home after practice. Then, I began feeling very nauseous. I went to my bathroom and began to throw up and pass out intermittently. My older brother was home but was unaware. A couple hours later, my parents came in from dinner and my mom found me in my bathroom. I was rushed to the emergency room, where I stayed for the next twenty-four hours. After that, I was much more aware and cautious when I felt a little woozy; probably the only reason my other three concussions were ever diagnosed and treated (as they were not nearly as severe as my first).

When I was playing football (late 90s), medics were not inspecting every single player are the end of practice; I doubt that they are doing so now. "Tough" players will continue to play through a headache or a bit of wooziness. This only compounds the problem and opens them up to situations in which the severity of the concussion will increase dramatically.

Would you rather have your son smoking, doing drugs, and drinking on his own after school opposed to playing football with a solid moral foundation, and a miniature community?

From a moral standpoint, I will have no problems if my son or daughter wants to drink and smoke when they are in high school; I will simply do what I can to ensure that they do so in a manner in which they are not risking legal problems.
 
If the argument is that individuals who are not able to consent should be able to do what they love, regardless of the high correlation to negative consequences, then how is playing high school football different from drinking and smoking? Why are there laws against the latter but not against the former?



Individuals that are thinking rationally do not commit suicide.



I had 3 concussions in high school and one after high school. I knew the risks; I have also known the risks associated with drinking and smoking, and I partake in those activities daily.

Maybe I was extremely stupid, but when I had my first concussion, I continued to practice. I felt a little woozy. I drove home after practice. Then, I began feeling very nauseous. I went to my bathroom and began to throw up and pass out intermittently. My older brother was home but was unaware. A couple hours later, my parents came in from dinner and my mom found me in my bathroom. I was rushed to the emergency room, where I stayed for the next twenty-four hours. After that, I was much more aware and cautious when I felt a little woozy; probably the only reason my other three concussions were ever diagnosed and treated (as they were not nearly as severe as my first).

When I was playing football (late 90s), medics were not inspecting every single player are the end of practice; I doubt that they are doing so now. "Tough" players will continue to play through a headache or a bit of wooziness. This only compounds the problem and opens them up to situations in which the severity of the concussion will increase dramatically.



From a moral standpoint, I will have no problems if my son or daughter wants to drink and smoke when they are in high school; I will simply do what I can to ensure that they do so in a manner in which they are not risking legal problems.

First we don't agree with you on the future risk high school football causes.

Second: I would guess the amount of suicides among football players is probably less than
The general population....I workout a gym with a guy who had a great job well off financially...supposed happy family with wife and kids.....he Hung himself in the basement a couple months ago.....suicide is a horrible thing for everyone to deal with but to blame it on football is an extreme stretch.

Third: that is where I disagree with you.....my kids will not smoke or drink in high school with my knowledge and if they ever smoke in their lifetime they will have to deal with dad LOL
 

VN Store



Back
Top