Malzahn can flat out coach. He was the

#126
#126
Sandvol said:
guy who I hoped we would go after when Dooley was fired but I think Hart was very slow off the blocks-what was his comment?- "We have all the time in the world" or words to that effect. Hart has not impressed me at all.
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Yeah, we should have hired him and all these guys would be fast! We'd have hung him on the hill by the end of year one for not having 10 wins. He wasn't going anywhere except where he is!
 
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#127
#127
Those statistics they showed about teams when Malzahn was OC and when he left was outstanding. He is def a great offensive mind.
 
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#130
#130
metafour said:
You guys are seriously overstating Auburn's "outstanding recruiting". A high amount of Auburn's top rated signees over the past few years are no longer on the team due to off-field and/or academic. Of the ones that ARE still on this team; several of them are still not doing much of anything under Malzahn's staff because they were more or less tarnished by Chizik. There is talent on this team (to go 9-1 in this conference means there has to be some talent somewhere), but to state Auburn's "Top 10 recruiting classes" as some sort of indicator that this team is stacked is ridiculous. Lets look at the reality of the situation, and you will quickly see that the majority of the players that bolstered those "highly ranked" AU signing classes have next to nothing to do with this year's success:

2012 Class: #10 on Rivals, 13 4-stars total
4* Shane Callahan: Not on 2-deep depth chart
4* Jordan Diamond: Injury probs, backup OL
4* Javiere Mitchell: Undersized; 3rd string player
4* Tyler Nero: ~3rd string DL, barely plays
4* Ricky Parks: Kicked off the team
4* Jovon Robinson: You guys know this one; currently at JUCO
4* JaQuay Williams: Didn't qualify, signed with A&M after Prep School
7 of 14 4-star recruits are Non-Impact Players or No Longer on Team

2011 Class: #7 on Rivals, 13 4-stars, 1 5-star total
4* Jaylon Denson: Blew his knee out early this year; only a blocking receiver when he did play
4* Erique Florence: Left the team, attitude/behavior problems
4* Kiehl Frazier: Uber-bust, blocking receiver now...doesn't really play
4* Brandon Fulse: Suspended earlier this year, back on team, but not much more than a blocking TE
4* Jonathon Rose: Left the team, transferred to Nebraska
4* Christian Westerman: Left the team, transferred to Arizona State
6 of 14 4-star or better recruits are Non-Impact Players or No Longer on Team. *5-star Kris Frost splits time with one of the worst Linebackers in recent SEC history (Jake Holland)

2010 Class: #4 on Rivals, 13 4-stars, 3 5-stars total
5* Shon Coleman: Cancer story. Backup OL, rarely plays
5* Mike Dyer: Kicked off the team
5* JUCO Cam Newton: No longer on team, obviously
4* JUCO Joel Bonomolo: Huge bust, didn't do anything...no longer on team
4* JUCO Roszell Gayden: Huge bust, didn't do anything...no longer on team
4* Antonio Goodwin: Part of the Burglary Bunch, in prison I believe
4* Jake Holland: "Semi-starting" LB, but the worst LB in the conference and a liability
4* Corey Lemonier: Left for the NFL early, not on team
4* Eric Mack: Shot in the ass during the AU murders a few years ago, no longer on team
4* JUCO Brandon Mosely: Currently in the NFL, no longer on team
4* Trovon Reed: Huge bust; barely does anything
4* Jeremy Richardson: Never qualified
4* Craig Sanders: Special Teams and 3rd-string DL
4* Jeff Whittaker: Blew out his knee at start of season; huge bust up until that point anyway
14 of 16 4-star or better recruits are Non-Impact Players or No Longer on Team.
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I think you are skewing your results by only counting attrition of 4 or 5 star players. Worse than that, you are only counting 3 classes, are totally ignoring the players who are still on the roster, and further discounting others because of your subjective criteria of who is impact v. non-impact.

The first key point to realize is that the "beef" of many SEC teams is made up of a solid corps of 3 star guys, with 4 and 5 star guys at key positions. As a visual aid (see below). This is the SEC east after the spring games, broken down by number of starred players on the roster. 3 stars make up about half of most rosters.

Want to see what Auburn's 3 deep looks like?
Go here: College Player Database - Depth Chart


Auburn's starting lineup has 13 4-star players and 9 3-star players. 5 are seniors, 12 are Juniors, 4 are sophomores, 1 is a RS freshman. Auburn's roster, taken as a whole, is strong enough to win the east outright, and is 2nd in the SEC west.

Compare that to Bama's, who has out recruited the rest of the NCAA and you will find, 4 5-star players, 13 4-star players, 4 3-star players, a player whose ranking I couldn't find (Ivory NT). 8 are seniors, 10 are juniors, 3 are sophomores, 1 is a RS. So. So regardless of urban legend where Bama has a whole roster of 5 star athletes, they rely as heavily on 5 star players as on 3 star players.

You can dig deeper if you wish, but having spent a great deal of time breaking down these numbers for many teams across many years, I believe the numbers clearly show that Auburn's attrition isn't as bad as you want to believe, or are trying to prove with numbers that leave out the meat of most top-tier teams rosters. Let us not even include your subjective narrative that attempts to further diminish the value of players based on your "impact v. non-impact" criteria.

Every team suffers attrition. Believe it or not, attrition is similar across the majority of schools who recruit in the top 25. As a starting point, understand that even the NCAA and SEC rules force an attrition rate of about 15% as a yearly minimum (If you can sign 25 a year, every four years you should have 100, except that the maximum allowed on scholarship is 85). On top of that are the players who wash out, fail out, have discipline problems, transfer, quit, whatever. Many schools will end up with a few extra scholarships at the end of each year to give to walk-ons, or transfers. Attrition is real, and it happens to most (if not all) schools at a similar rate.

My final point: click the link below. It is the SEC broken down by division, team, and then average recruiting ranking. Simply using average recruiting ranking as a method of predicting outcome in the SEC yields a prediction rate (so far this season) of roughly 80%.

If attrition was uneven, this wouldn't work that well, nor would it have similar results for every year since 2005. Nor would it have a 90% prediction rate in BCS championship games. Nor would it have an overall prediction rate of about 70% across all 120+ schools, over the past 8 years.

If you can't understand this somewhat confusing document, click the "instructions" tab on top.

https://docs.google.com/a/mybloodis...Qgwl-hyfdEpwUHpyWXUzY3JWRFU1Skc1UTRiZ2c&gid=0
 

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#131
#131
I tell myself to stay away from VN, but I can't, I just can't. It is amazing how oblivious so many fans are. Not even going to repeat all the logic and facts that should be interjected into threads like this. Waste of time. Butch Jones is the right coach for the right time. Ya'll would have hated Nick Saban in year 1.
 
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#132
#132
champyvol said:
i agree i said gus was a better coach than people gave him credit for when they hired him and was flamed by the usual people that don't know much on the board. i thought he was a better coach than jones then and i still do now. the verdict is still out on jones, but there has to be some changes to this best staff in america.
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On the verdict part, I would think so since it is his first year.

As for the changes part, Butch needs to consider it. OTOH, maybe when he starts getting faster and more physical players, then hopefully that will make a difference. That being said, I partially agree with you.
 
#133
#133
Auburn had no talent last year went 3 and 8. This year with mostly the same players they have talent and are 9 and 1. I guess with some teams coaching can make some difference.
 
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#134
#134
Volfan2012 said:
Auburn had no talent last year went 3 and 8. This year with mostly the same players they have talent and are 9 and 1. I guess with some teams coaching can make some difference.
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Best staff in America.


Probably would not even be the best staff in the new American Conference.
 
#136
#136
One thing I have found out from starting this thread is that those of us who think we know it all are very annoying to those of you who do.
 
#137
#137
Sandvol said:
guy who I hoped we would go after when Dooley was fired but I think Hart was very slow off the blocks-what was his comment?- "We have all the time in the world" or words to that effect. Hart has not impressed me at all.
Click to expand...

Hart ,, why is Hart even here ???? And please don't somebody say how lucky Tennessee is to have a Alabamian at UT... Go Butch Jones and the Vols..:salute:
 
#138
#138
Is this the same Gus Malzhan that loss to a 6-6 WKU team last year while at Arkansas State? He took over a veteran team and performed the same as Hugh Freeze. So he goes back to Auburn after being gone for only one year, and our fans are salivating over him like he's Coach Neyland reincarnated. If he would've come here, he would not be able to run his offense here either, but some are too dim to understand that.
 
#139
#139
titansvolsfaninga said:
Is this the same Gus Malzhan that loss to a 6-6 WKU team last year while at Arkansas State? He took over a veteran team and performed the same as Hugh Freeze. So he goes back to Auburn after being gone for only one year, and our fans are salivating over him like he's Coach Neyland reincarnated. If he would've come here, he would not be able to run his offense here either, but some are too dim to understand that.
Click to expand...

Well....Arkansas State vs WKU should probably be a tossup anyway, and Freeze is actually a decent coach...so far.

What impresses me about Malzahn is that Auburn was 17th in the country in scoring in 2009 at 33 pts per game after Auburn in Tubberville's last year of 2008 was 110th in the country at 17 points a game, with pretty much the EXACT SAME PLAYERS (Cam was a one and done in 2010). And he didn't recruit them either, well maybe the frosh class.

That's just an eye-popping improvement.

Fun fact...we were tied with Auburn at 110 in offensive scoring in 2010. If only Kiffin had hired Malzahn, but the loser had to call his own plays.
 
#140
#140
treedogvol said:
Hart ,, why is Hart even here ???? And please don't somebody say how lucky Tennessee is to have a Alabamian at UT... Go Butch Jones and the Vols..:salute:
Click to expand...

Yes, I remember well what the last Alabamian we hired did to us.
 
#141
#141
Sandvol said:
Yes, I remember well what the last Alabamian we hired did to us.
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Who? Ken Donahue?

I think Hart has been fine so far. However Butch Jones turns out...and I think he will do well, Hart handled the hiring just fine IMO. It was very smooth compared to the C-fizzle Hamilton put together (Fulmer crying in presser, players revolting, we lose to Wyoming).

Cuanzo is kind of iffy, but I think we do well in BBall this year. Although I think Hamilton hired Cuonzo, but Hart has at least not interfered with him.

I don't think there is anything you could objectively point to about Hart not doing a good job so far.

And Dickey was a GREAT AD...from Florida! Played there and DITCHED UT in 1971 to coach Florida, but STILL came back and did a great job as AD at UT.
 
#142
#142
Sandvol said:
But then he wasted time going after Mike Gundy-like Mike Gundy was going to leave Oklahoma State? And, that he was even a good hire? Not impressed at all. I believe if Malzahn was our coach this year we would be a top 25 team. He is one of those coaches who can make lemonade out of lemons.
Click to expand...

And I would bet that if Butch Jones was hired at Auburn will all of their talent already in place, he would be a top 10 coach too. Malzahn would have the same problems Jones is having. Stop kidding yourself. Nick Saban would be having the same problems Butch is having this year.
 
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#144
#144
BanditVol said:
Who? Ken Donahue?

I think Hart has been fine so far. However Butch Jones turns out...and I think he will do well, Hart handled the hiring just fine IMO. It was very smooth compared to the C-fizzle Hamilton put together (Fulmer crying in presser, players revolting, we lose to Wyoming).

Cuanzo is kind of iffy, but I think we do well in BBall this year. Although I think Hamilton hired Cuonzo, but Hart has at least not interfered with him.

I don't think there is anything you could objectively point to about Hart not doing a good job so far.

And Dickey was a GREAT AD...from Florida! Played there and DITCHED UT in 1971 to coach Florida, but STILL came back and did a great job as AD at UT.
Click to expand...

Bad comparison, Ken Donahue was a Vol. And yes there are things I could objectively point to about Hart. Things that most choose to ignore or miss. By the way, we were talking about Alabamians not Floridians. And, I think Jimmy Cheek and Joan Cronan hired Cuonzo. Hamilton was on his way out and not really involved.
 
#145
#145
BigOrangeTrain said:
And I would bet that if Butch Jones was hired at Auburn will all of their talent already in place, he would be a top 10 coach too. Malzahn would have the same problems Jones is having. Stop kidding yourself. Nick Saban would be having the same problems Butch is having this year.
Click to expand...

You just re-stated the whole crux of the debate here.
 
#146
#146
Sandvol said:
Bad comparison, Ken Donahue was a Vol. And yes there are things I could objectively point to about Hart. Things that most choose to ignore or miss. By the way, we were talking about Alabamians not Floridians. And, I think Jimmy Cheek and Joan Cronan hired Cuonzo. Hamilton was on his way out and not really involved.
Click to expand...

I didn't realize Donahue played for the Vols, but he was also a longtime Bear assistant.

You still didn't answer the question...who is the "other bama guy" you were talking about?

Hart is doing fine so far. If you have an issue with something, spit it out.
 
#147
#147
BanditVol said:
I didn't realize Donahue played for the Vols, but he was also a longtime Bear assistant.

You still didn't answer the question...who is the "other bama guy" you were talking about?

Hart is doing fine so far. If you have an issue with something, spit it out.
Click to expand...

I was thinking of Bill Battle.
 
#148
#148
What's this thread for just to stir up krap. Want be long ant it will be Gruden Soon
 
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