Manning greatest QB ever?

Who is the greatest QB ever?

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#27
#27
volfanbill said:
so either way you're still excluding brady? head to head means a lot.. and this crap about brady having so much around him.. look at the offense that manning gets to use. i know manning beat brady in the regular season this year, but he has to prove he can do it in the post-season. that being said, one mere victory still wouldnt' convince me. Super Bowls would. notice i used the plural form there
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Defense is important in playoff games which Manning has been without. Also others have to step up as well. Note the dropped passes against Pittsburg.
 
#30
#30
Rheaber said:
Defense is important in playoff games which Manning has been without. Also others have to step up as well. Note the dropped passes against Pittsburg.
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The one that Polyahowthehelldoyouspellhisname (DB for the Steelers) caught and got jobbed by the officials would have sealed that game. You cannot be saying that Peyton had a good game against the Steelers. :blink:
 
#32
#32
volfanbill said:
so either way you're still excluding brady? head to head means a lot.. and this crap about brady having so much around him.. look at the offense that manning gets to use. i know manning beat brady in the regular season this year, but he has to prove he can do it in the post-season. that being said, one mere victory still wouldnt' convince me. Super Bowls would. notice i used the plural form there
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Brady had the best defense, a good running game, and an excellent coaching staff around him. He was never forced to win the game all by himself. That is consistent with all of the other multi-SB winners.

The difference is the Manning makes that offense. Harrison is great, but no one else is. Take out Manning, and they are an avg team. Take James out, and they are the same. Manning has to be perfect for them to win.

Head to head means nothing. It's the Pats vs the Colts. Would Brady be able to win the SB with the Cardinals?

Take Aikman for example. He had the best defense in the NFL, the best OL ever, all time leading rusher, Irvin, Harper, Novachek, Moose, etc. He would NEVER had won thos SBs without the team he had around him.

It's a team sport.
 
#33
#33
peyton didn't have a good game against the steelers.. he always has that bad game in the playoffs and the colts dont' make it. but the manning lovers always find excuses. I understand that the qb can't do it all, but manning has never done it. didn't in college, hasn't in the pros. WIN SOMETHING IMPORTANT!
 
#34
#34
Liper said:
Brady had the best defense, a good running game, and an excellent coaching staff around him. He was never forced to win the game all by himself. That is consistent with all of the other multi-SB winners.

The difference is the Manning makes that offense. Harrison is great, but no one else is. Take out Manning, and they are an avg team. Take James out, and they are the same. Manning has to be perfect for them to win.

Head to head means nothing. It's the Pats vs the Colts. Would Brady be able to win the SB with the Cardinals?

Take Aikman for example. He had the best defense in the NFL, the best OL ever, all time leading rusher, Irvin, Harper, Novachek, Moose, etc. He would NEVER had won thos SBs without the team he had around him.

It's a team sport.
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liper you normally are right on the money. but to say that the the colts other wr's and te's aren't anything is one of the craziest things i've read on this board. not to mention peyton under utilizing james. and don't go by his cardinals stats. he's aged and he has no o-line on the cards.
 
#36
#36
Liper said:
Brady had the best defense, a good running game, and an excellent coaching staff around him. He was never forced to win the game all by himself. That is consistent with all of the other multi-SB winners....
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Brady also had a small merry go round of talent rotating through his offense. Making consistent excellence no small feat....

I'm not hugely Brady over Manning. There is so little to differentiate them talent wise...
 
#37
#37
volfanbill said:
peyton didn't have a good game against the steelers.. he always has that bad game in the playoffs and the colts dont' make it. but the manning lovers always find excuses. I understand that the qb can't do it all, but manning has never done it. didn't in college, hasn't in the pros. WIN SOMETHING IMPORTANT!
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This is filled with contradictions...it's the team but Manning hasn't done it.

Rothlesberger played like dog crap in the SB and they won.

Like I said, if he doesn't play perfect, they don't win. Every defensive scheme is designed to screw up their passing game. It was the same vs FL -- who by the way beat the crap out of everyone else too.

I seem to remember Peyton lighting them up in 95 and the team crumbled. Was that his fault? He was impeccable in that game. Had they won, they would have been undefeated.

For what it's worth, he is the run away winner as the best player in the NFL by his peers and coaches.
 
#38
#38
fwiw um no. that topic is debated by everyone. if he was the runaway their would be no brady-manning debate
 
#39
#39
volfanbill said:
fwiw um no. that topic is debated by everyone. if he was the runaway their would be no brady-manning debate
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It might be debated by everyone on message boards, but not based on the surveys compiled by the NFL. Those surveys, one of which was completed this year, Manning was the run away winner.

It's all subjective. I don't think it's nuts to think Brady is better. Brady is awesome. It's the rationale used to reduce Manning that I find empty.

Sure there have been times when he played less than perfect, but that happens to everyone -- especially when that is the team's only chance.
 
#40
#40
Liper said:
It might be debated by everyone on message boards, but not based on the surveys compiled by the NFL. Those surveys, one of which was completed this year, Manning was the run away winner.

It's all subjective. I don't think it's nuts to think Brady is better. Brady is awesome. It's the rationale used to reduce Manning that I find empty.

Sure there have been times when he played less than perfect, but that happens to everyone -- especially when that is the team's only chance.
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Brady is great but he is no Peyton Manning:dance2:
 
#41
#41
To me, it boils down to 2 questions:

First, do you except that Manning, barring injury, is going to own ever major passing record in the NFL before he retires?

Second, do you accept that is the criteria to establish who the greatest QB is?

To me, its hard to argue with those 2 points.
 
#42
#42
unless you don't ACCEPT those facts. so right now, marino is the best qb ever? no way. you still gotta win. manning has to win the big one.. he has to prove he can handle that pressure
 
#43
#43
Its been pretty much established that an average QB can win a super bowl (i.e. Dilfer) but can an average QB own say the most career TD record?
 
#45
#45
Liper said:
Brady had the best defense, a good running game, and an excellent coaching staff around him. He was never forced to win the game all by himself. That is consistent with all of the other multi-SB winners.

The difference is the Manning makes that offense. Harrison is great, but no one else is. Take out Manning, and they are an avg team. Take James out, and they are the same. Manning has to be perfect for them to win.

Head to head means nothing. It's the Pats vs the Colts. Would Brady be able to win the SB with the Cardinals?

Take Aikman for example. He had the best defense in the NFL, the best OL ever, all time leading rusher, Irvin, Harper, Novachek, Moose, etc. He would NEVER had won thos SBs without the team he had around him.

It's a team sport.
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Nevermind.
 
#46
#46
volfanbill said:
unless you don't ACCEPT those facts. so right now, marino is the best qb ever? no way. you still gotta win. manning has to win the big one.. he has to prove he can handle that pressure
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If Manning was the reason they weren't winning, I might agree with that. But I content it's a Colts problem, not a QB problem.

Regardless, was Elway great before he won his 2 SBs? Since he won those his last 2 years in the league, under that logic he didn't become great until they won. I just don't see that distinction; either he was great or he wasn't.

Steve Young was great, but didn't win until the end of his career...after Deion and some of the guys came over. But I don't think he was any different after than before.
 
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