Manning vs. Brady

#78
#78
Everyone knows Manning is great during the regular season. Its big games in the playoffs that people question him as a leader.
 
#79
#79
oklavol said:
Everyone knows Manning is great during the regular season. Its big games in the playoffs that people question him as a leader.
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I believe the last 4 playoff losses were to the eventual Super Bowl champs. That's not exactly losing to scrubs.
 
#84
#84
kptvol said:
I believe the last 4 playoff losses were to the eventual Super Bowl champs. That's not exactly losing to scrubs.
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Not to mention that Manning doesn't play every position. It's never just one person's fault, that's why it's a team sport.
 
#86
#86
therealUT said:
I have better things to do with my time then follow a team I have no connection to, simply because a former Vol plays for them...

I watch when it counts, in the playoffs. I can't say I have been impressed with Peyton beyond the Wild Card round.
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You probably think Fran Tarkenton or Jim Kelly werent great QB's? Peyton WILL get his. This is the same garbage that Favre and Elway got till they got theirs. If you look back it took getting Reggie White to sure up that Defense b4 Favre got there and Getting rid of Dan Reeves b4 Elway got his.
 
#87
#87
indyvol15 said:
You probably think Fran Tarkenton or Jim Kelly werent great QB's? Peyton WILL get his. This is the same garbage that Favre and Elway got till they got theirs. If you look back it took getting Reggie White to sure up that Defense b4 Favre got there and Getting rid of Dan Reeves b4 Elway got his.
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I think Tarkenton and Kelly did plenty beyond the first round of the playoffs. Also, i stated that Brady is a better QB than Manning. Brady is a better QB than Tarkenton and Kelly, also.

You are also correct about Elway and Favre. I do not give undue credit. Once they proved they could win at the highest level, then they earned the right to be in the debate of the greatest QBs. Manning and Marino are not in that debate, yet.

Also, no need to throw out the names of all the crappy QBs who rode great defenses to the Superbowl. Just because you are not in the debate to be called the greatest of all time, in no way means that you cannot be better than some of those QBs that are in the debate.

I think Manning will go down as the best QB never to win a Superbowl. He is a better QB than Dilfer and Brad Johnson. However, he is not better than Brady, Montana, Starr, Aikman, or Elway.
 
#88
#88
therealUT said:
I think Tarkenton and Kelly did plenty beyond the first round of the playoffs. Also, i stated that Brady is a better QB than Manning. Brady is a better QB than Tarkenton and Kelly, also.

You are also correct about Elway and Favre. I do not give undue credit. Once they proved they could win at the highest level, then they earned the right to be in the debate of the greatest QBs. Manning and Marino are not in that debate, yet.

Also, no need to throw out the names of all the crappy QBs who rode great defenses to the Superbowl. Just because you are not in the debate to be called the greatest of all time, in no way means that you cannot be better than some of those QBs that are in the debate.

I think Manning will go down as the best QB never to win a Superbowl. He is a better QB than Dilfer and Brad Johnson. However, he is not better than Brady, Montana, Starr, Aikman, or Elway.
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It could be said that Brady rode his defense (at least somewhat) to the Super Bowl. Bellicheck is a defensive genius. Most of the stars on the Pats have been defensive. The defenses Brady had when he won Super Bowls were the best or nearly the best in the NFL. The defense has been down a little this year and last, as has the Patriot win total.
 
#89
#89
What a great debate. I think it comes down to 2 schools of thought about what makes a great QB. If you think championships makes a great QB - then you're a Brady fan. If you think it is stats, etc., then you are a Manning fan.

I look at what Manning is able to accomplish without a defense (historically) to back him up. Brady has always had a complete team and a fantastic defense for the SB's. How good would Brady look with the Colts defense.

Brady is a fantastic QB and is a great leader - although he didn't show it last night. It would be interesting to see what the avg field position stats are for the Pats during the championship seasons...
 
#90
#90
Like it or not, when people evaluate how successful a QB's career was, they look at how many championships he won.

Dan Marino was a great QB, but its rare if you see anyone discussing his career, who doesn't mention that he did not win a championship.
 
#91
#91
Whether or not PM ever wins an SB, he will be considered among the great QBs. He is clearly one of the top 2 or 3 QB's playing right now. Brady clearly is one of those QBs and he also will be considered among the great QBs.

As some indication of what it takes to make it through the playoffs and the QB's role:

One of the losses to the Pats in the playoffs was a game where the Pats had well over 200 yards rushing - clearly the defense didn't help matters. In the loss to Pitt last year, PM's passer rating was considerably higher than any of the other QB's that lost that round and higher than 1/2 of the QB's that won that round - in other words, he didn't choke in the game. You also have to factor in the death of Tony Dungy's son right at the end of the season - clearly a distracted coach makes it harder to win the road to the SB.

Not trying to make excuses but just add some context to the discussion on a QB's dependence on the team to win games.
 
#92
#92
Football is a team sport with a goal to win a championship. No one ignores that when evaluating how successful a QB is. Bottom line, you want a QB who does what is needed to win.

Manning might have the highest rating of any QB in the playoffs, but if his team didn't win, it wasn't enough. He wasn't successful. He may have played better then any other QB in the playoffs but his team still wasn't successful.
 
#94
#94
next thing you are gonna hear is the Heisman determines the best player in college football....*cough*gino terretta*cough*
 
#95
#95
The thing that kills me is Dan Patrick today said if Brady was on the Colts the last three years they would have won the SB. What BS! Tom has always had a very good defense and a great kicker to bail them out.
 
#96
#96
Rocky Top said:
The thing that kills me is Dan Patrick today said if Brady was on the Colts the last three years they would have won the SB. What BS! Tom has always had a very good defense and a great kicker to bail them out.
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They might have been able to make the playoffs, but it would have been on the legs of Edgerrin James. In the postseason, they wouldn't be able to score enough points to make up for their defensive shortcomings.
 
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