Manning's Playoff Teams

#151
#151
99gator said:
not really.

the whole thing is what makes the tennessee fan base unique.

how many other teams could you hang 60 on and be told you didn't have the better team? or go 5-7 and claim to be better than the team that played for a national title?

that's a wow factor that just can't be replicated.
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The "how we will win the East" threads will be showing up soon. Are you better than Louisville? I think so. The Notre Dame stuff this year is baffling but we were good enough to win any of the UF-UT games from 1995 through 2006.
 
#152
#152
thebjd said:
The "how we will win the East" threads will be showing up soon. Are you better than Louisville? I think so. The Notre Dame stuff this year is baffling but we were good enough to win any of the UF-UT games from 1995 through 2006.
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That's what makes part of the 1995 argument funny for me.

The year prior, 31-0. The year after 35-0 by the 2nd quarter and the game was effectively over.

If they were as good or better, they certainly didnt show it
 
#153
#153
There was a time when even though Brady was winning championships Peyton was the better QB. That time has gone. Since 2007 Brady has a 187-45 TD/INT ratio to Manning's 161-70. In those 5 seasons Brady has thrown for over 4,800 yards 3 times including 5,235 (2nd all-time) last season. Manning has never thrown for more than 4,700 yards.

They are two of the best ever, and will always be lumped together...lets just always be glad we got see both of their careers. I honestly believe their rivalries made both better.
 
#154
#154
Champ Bailey is no longer the great cover corner he use to be. I think that was exposed. A bigger, more aggresive, speedy WR can beat him. Denver's secondary was/is not use to that. I think some changes will be made next year in coverage sitiuations giving Bailey some help when need be. Don't get me wrong Champ is still good, but he is gonna need some help in coverage in the future.

As far as Peyton is concerned.....he should not have made that pass....bad decision. I hate when he tries to force it, that never works.
 
#155
#155
thebjd said:
We were better in the first half, the rain came and we got caught up in the biggest whirlwind azz-whipping I can recall. We kept fumbling and Florida kept scoring touchdowns. The 1995 squad is one of my favorite Vol teams. I still believe we were as good as UF at the end of the year but not on the Saturday we played.
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Maybe, but that Saturday is the only one that mattered.
 
#156
#156
JMSqb11 said:
I'm pretty sure if Peyton wanted to pass on that 3rd and 7 or try to get a FG at the end of regulation, he would. People acting like Fox is to blame is ridiculous. Yall are acting like if pm changed it from a kneel down to a pass play, Fox would bench him. Elway paid PM that much to run the offense like he did in Indy. To say he isn't doing the same on Denver is stupid. I'm sure Peyton is just as much to blame on those two instances as Fox is
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Fox definitely has part of the blame. Bc if Peyton was not wanting to try and get in field goal range then Fox should've been overruling and saying were going for the win. They pulled a Dooley. We all saw Matt Ryan go get in field goal range with almost the EXACT same situation. And long field goals are notorious in that stadium, even with the cold.

The 3rd and 7 I can understand completely really. You have a top 3 Defense and they had a minute to go 80 yards with no timeouts. I would like those odds. Just at the same time its the conservative playing not to lose route, instead of the going for the win route. Which I just like to put matters into my own hands (in this case one of the best QBs of all time's hands.)


..oh and "Fox would bench him"??? :eek:lol: Yeah :eek:k: you know thats not happening no matter what Peyton does.
 
#157
#157
99gator said:
That's what makes part of the 1995 argument funny for me.

The year prior, 31-0. The year after 35-0 by the 2nd quarter and the game was effectively over.

If they were as good or better, they certainly didnt show it
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Do you want to go by the second quarter score in 1995? 1994 would have been much different in my opinion had Shuler returned. I suppose Spurrier was being generous when Tennessee closed to one score in 1996. Those teams were not far apart.
 
#158
#158
you can't pick out certain quarters or halves of a game and say UT was better. Either you win the game or you don't.
 
#160
#160
BACKDOC said:
Don't get me wrong I was rooting for Denver only because of him, but when I got back from Zero Dark Thirty (awesome movie by the way), and saw the score, I had to smile after seeing Tebow lead them to a playoff win just to get the pink slip.
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with tebow the broncos would have lost by 30+
 
#161
#161
When you are the QB you get all the glory and all the blame. Truth be told without the kick returns Denver probably gets beat pretty bad. Peyton turnovers led to 17 pts, so there is that. Without Peyton though, Denver is probably a 6 seed. The one funny thing is people insinuating that Fox tells Manning exactly what to do. Peyton has been his teams oc pretty much from his third year in the league. I doubt he just blindly follows Fox now. Peyton threw a horrible int and Denvers DB made a horrible play, both of which were costly. BTW I couldn't care less either way just my opinion. I'm a niners fan, since I was 5. I don't switch teams for certain players.
 
#162
#162
VolsRule said:
you can't pick out certain quarters or halves of a game and say UT was better. Either you win the game or you don't.
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I agree and do not believe in "moral victories" but Gator brought up a second quarter score. You win or you lose.
 
#163
#163
I am a vol fan , so let me be clear about that ! Peyton is no Tom Brady, he was surrounded by 6-10 ,#1 draft picks on offense at any given time in Indy. name 1 first ballot hall of fame receiver Brady had (Randy Moss does not count since he was a non factor ) ? His great running backs ?
Brady produces in the post season , Manning is 1 for what 13 or 14 tries . I love PM and think he is all class , but when the spotlight is shining the brightest and the weather is cold , he just cannot execute, period . Peyton and Indy had to sacrifice on defense so he would have all those #1 weapons on offense and that cost them championships also . the Ravens had the fire in the belly and the Broncos pass defense , I think just gave up another 30+ yard pass play ! Where were Dumervil,Miller and Bailey (he was getting beat like a drum) . So this was not all on Peyton, however, if the special teams (Trindon Holliday) don't score 2 touchdowns this game would have been over by the end of the 3rd quarter .
 
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#164
#164
Smokeytom said:
Fox definitely has part of the blame. Bc if Peyton was not wanting to try and get in field goal range then Fox should've been overruling and saying were going for the win. They pulled a Dooley. We all saw Matt Ryan go get in field goal range with almost the EXACT same situation. And long field goals are notorious in that stadium, even with the cold.

The 3rd and 7 I can understand completely really. You have a top 3 Defense and they had a minute to go 80 yards with no timeouts. I would like those odds. Just at the same time its the conservative playing not to lose route, instead of the going for the win route. Which I just like to put matters into my own hands (in this case one of the best QBs of all time's hands.)


..oh and "Fox would bench him"??? :eek:lol: Yeah :eek:k: you know thats not happening no matter what Peyton does.
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Read the context. I said people act like if PM had overruled Fox, he would get benched. That's how it comes across with people blaming Fox for being the sole decision maker.
 
#165
#165
JMSqb11 said:
Read the context. I said people act like if PM had overruled Fox, he would get benched. That's how it comes across with people blaming Fox for being the sole decision maker.
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We'll never know whose decision that was. Ultimately, it is the coach's decision. He either lets Peyton do what he wants to or he tells Peyton we are going to run the ball and run out the clock.

Knowing Peyton, I would be surprised if he would have wanted to put the game into the hands of the D. I'm sure he would have wanted to throw the ball and try to score and seal the victory.

But who knows. Only he and Fox know for sure.
 
#166
#166
markarm1960 said:
So this was not all on Peyton, however, if the special teams (Trindon Holliday) don't score 2 touchdowns this game would have been over by the end of the 3rd quarter .
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That is absurd to say that the game would have been over if Holliday hadn't scored. You have no idea what the Denver offense would have done those 2 series. Maybe they score 2 TD's anyway and took more time off the clock and the Ravens wouldn't have had time to throw the TD with 30 seconds to go in the game.
 
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#167
#167
markarm1960 said:
I am a vol fan , so let me be clear about that ! Peyton is no Tom Brady, he was surrounded by 6-10 ,#1 draft picks on offense at any given time in Indy. name 1 first ballot hall of fame receiver Brady had (Randy Moss does not count since he was a non factor ) ? His great running backs ?
Brady produces in the post season , Manning is 1 for what 13 or 14 tries . I love PM and think he is all class , but when the spotlight is shining the brightest and the weather is cold , he just cannot execute, period . Peyton and Indy had to sacrifice on defense so he would have all those #1 weapons on offense and that cost them championships also . the Ravens had the fire in the belly and the Broncos pass defense , I think just gave up another 30+ yard pass play ! Where were Dumervil,Miller and Bailey (he was getting beat like a drum) . So this was not all on Peyton, however, if the special teams (Trindon Holliday) don't score 2 touchdowns this game would have been over by the end of the 3rd quarter .
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The Ravens caught some breaks as well. I think a 70 yard bomb with under a minute left and a safety looking like my six year old fielding a punt is one. The non-call on the pass interference pick six was fortuitous as well. It went both ways. In the end Peyton should never throw a pick on his side of the 50 yard line in a sudden death situation.
 
#168
#168
Two absurd PI calls and one no call in the first half hurt the Broncos. It cause a 14 point swing or maybe even 21 points. You can say the calls were made up in the 2nd half, but going in at the half 21 - 7 or 28 - 7 is much different than tied up. Manning has been int prone for several years because he puts the ball many times into a pie plate for a completion. What killed the Broncos was sloppy DB play by a defense that has been lights out.
 
#170
#170
DeansRedHalo said:
They count as just another stat in my eyes. They don't make him anymore clutch than any other QB, cause the truth is, he's had the benefit of a great D and a great running game for a whole lot of those wins.

Toni Kukoc has three NBA rings...does that make him better than LeBron? (A marquee player that many also consider to come up lame in the postseason as well).
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The argument that Brady has always had a great Defense is a myth:

Defensive Rankings per Football Outsiders DVOA:

Year Rank/Team Rank/Team
2012 15 NE 5 DEN
2011 30 NE 27 IND*
2010 18 NE 24 IND
2009 16 NE 15 IND
2008 21 NE* 10 IND
2007 12 NE 2 IND
2006 7 NE 25 IND
2005 27 NE 5 IND
2004 6 NE 19 IND
2003 2 NE 13 IND
2002 14 NE 16 IND
2001 13 NE 29 IND
--- --- ---
Ave. 14.5 average 14.8 average

*QB Did Not Play (not counted for average)
 
#171
#171
The reason we won a National Championship with Tee Martin, and NOT Peyton Manning?? Tee did not turn the ball over. Peyton is not a great clutch QB. Eli Manning is the better bargain. Eli will win another Super Bowl. Peyton's days are over. I love Peyton, he is a great QB that does not know how to win. It's really is simple is that. Don't blame the defense, they are going to have a bad game once in a great while. If not for special teams, Denver is not in this game. Whenever a Peyton Manning led team has to depend on Peyton, They Lose!! It's that simple. And he didnt win that Super Bowl, the Bears lost it. Peyton should personally thank Lovie Smith for totally messin with the offense in the second half of that game.
 
#172
#172
markarm1960 said:
I am a vol fan , so let me be clear about that ! Peyton is no Tom Brady, he was surrounded by 6-10 ,#1 draft picks on offense at any given time in Indy. name 1 first ballot hall of fame receiver Brady had (Randy Moss does not count since he was a non factor ) ? His great running backs ?
Brady produces in the post season , Manning is 1 for what 13 or 14 tries . I love PM and think he is all class , but when the spotlight is shining the brightest and the weather is cold , he just cannot execute, period . Peyton and Indy had to sacrifice on defense so he would have all those #1 weapons on offense and that cost them championships also . the Ravens had the fire in the belly and the Broncos pass defense , I think just gave up another 30+ yard pass play ! Where were Dumervil,Miller and Bailey (he was getting beat like a drum) . So this was not all on Peyton, however, if the special teams (Trindon Holliday) don't score 2 touchdowns this game would have been over by the end of the 3rd quarter .
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I agree with most of what you say except, the Randy Moss was a non factor part. He had one of the all time great seasons with Brady. And Corey Dillon did have 1600 yards rushing his first season there.
 
#173
#173
BadJerry20 said:
I agree with most of what you say except, the Randy Moss was a non factor part. He had one of the all time great seasons with Brady. And Corey Dillon did have 1600 yards rushing his first season there.
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I think he only said Moss was a non-factor because he only played one full season with him. That one season was amazing, but over the span of all he has done in his career it is pretty minimal.

For most of Brady's career he has average talent at both WR and RB, but he slices defenses to death. When he does get a truly impactful WR he sets records. Manning's two top receivers this season were both 6'3. Welker is 5'9 and Lloyd is 6'0. That is a big difference for a QB.
 
#174
#174
In the Boro said:
I think he only said Moss was a non-factor because he only played one full season with him. That one season was amazing, but over the span of all he has done in his career it is pretty minimal.

For most of Brady's career he has average talent at both WR and RB, but he slices defenses to death. When he does get a truly impactful WR he sets records. Manning's two top receivers this season were both 6'3. Welker is 5'9 and Lloyd is 6'0. That is a big difference for a QB.
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I gotcha, the non factor thing just threw me off. I agree Brady's weapons have been very limited, and he has made the most out of the talent he has around him.
 
#175
#175
In the Boro said:
I think he only said Moss was a non-factor because he only played one full season with him. That one season was amazing, but over the span of all he has done in his career it is pretty minimal.

For most of Brady's career he has average talent at both WR and RB, but he slices defenses to death. When he does get a truly impactful WR he sets records. Manning's two top receivers this season were both 6'3. Welker is 5'9 and Lloyd is 6'0. That is a big difference for a QB.
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Is this a joke? Brady didn't have great weapons when he won SBs, but those teams were just solid offensively, and very strong defensively. Brady has had plenty of weapons for the past 6-7 years, and has 0 titles.

Welker may be 5' 9" but he's the greatest slot to ever play. Brady has a good running game. He has a superior offensive line.

Brady's guys are SO open all the time. Who cares if they are short? Do you know how much the Patriots dominate Yards after the Catch? The last 6 years they've averaged 2,085 YAC. Manning's teams? 1,678 of YAC.

Hell, the Patriots did 2,102 in YAC with Cassel! Brady ain't hurting for weapons.
 
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