Manning's Playoff Teams

#176
#176
n_huffhines said:
Is this a joke? Brady didn't have great weapons when he won SBs, but those teams were just solid offensively, and very strong defensively. Brady has had plenty of weapons for the past 6-7 years, and has 0 titles.

Welker may be 5' 9" but he's the greatest slot to ever play. Brady has a good running game. He has a superior offensive line.

Brady's guys are SO open all the time. Who cares if they are short? Do you know how much the Patriots dominate Yards after the Catch? The last 6 years they've averaged 2,085 YAC. Manning's teams? 1,678 of YAC.


Hell, the Patriots did 2,102 in YAC with Cassel! Brady ain't hurting for weapons.
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Look at Welker...he was undrafted. Then he was released by the Chargers. He played special teams for the Dolphins for two seasons compiling 29 receptions. He barely made the team the next season, but did record a modest 67 catches. Then the Pats traded for him, and with Brady at QB became an HOF caliber WR. Manning had Harrison, Wayne, James, Clark, and Addai for most of his career...all 1st rounders. Even this season, he had Thomas...another 1st rounder to throw to. Brady never had anything even close to that.

Other than Welker, Brady has only had 1 impactful receiver and for one season, and 1 impactful RB for only one season. He has had a good...sometimes great offensive line, but he reads defenses as well as anyone ever has. If you rush him, he kills you.

Since 2007 Brady has a 187-45 TD/INT ratio to Manning's 161-70 in the same number of games. In those 5 seasons Brady has thrown for over 4,800 yards 3 times including 5,235 (2nd all-time) last season. Manning has never thrown for more than 4,700 yards.
 
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#177
#177
In the Boro said:
Look at Welker...he was undrafted. Then he was released by the Chargers. He played special teams for the Dolphins for two seasons compiling 29 receptions. He barely made the team the next season, but did record a modest 67 catches. Then the Pats traded for him, and with Brady at QB became an HOF caliber WR. Manning had Harrison, Wayne, James, Clark, and Addai for most of his career...all 1st rounders. Even this season, he had Thomas...another 1st rounder to throw to. Brady never had anything even close to that.

Other than Welker, Brady has only had 1 impactful receiver and for one season, and 1 impactful RB for only one season. He has had a good...sometimes great offensive line, but he reads defenses as well as anyone ever has. If you rush him, he kills you.

Since 2007 Brady has a 187-45 TD/INT ratio to Manning's 161-70 in the same number of games. In those 5 seasons Brady has thrown for over 4,800 yards 3 times including 5,235 (2nd all-time) last season. Manning has never thrown for more than 4,700 yards.
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67 catches for a slot is not modest*. Especially when Joey Harrington is throwing to you.

*Brandon Stokley had 68 catches once, and never reached 50 catches before or after.
 
#178
#178
You mention guys like Clark, Addai, and James, but the funny thing is none of those guys accomplished jack without Peyton.

Clark had 47 catches this year. Ben Watson left New England and had 68 catches his first year in CLEVELAND. Funny, you didn't mention him when you were talking about Brady's weapons.

You use guys that only had success with Manning to show that he's had great weapons, and then you don't show guys who have had success without Brady...pretty convenient.
 
#179
#179
n_huffhines said:
You mention guys like Clark, Addai, and James, but the funny thing is none of those guys accomplished jack without Peyton.

Clark had 47 catches this year. Ben Watson left New England and had 68 catches his first year in CLEVELAND. Funny, you didn't mention him when you were talking about Brady's weapons.

You use guys that only had success with Manning to show that he's had great weapons, and then you don't show guys who have had success without Brady...pretty convenient.
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Bad example: Cleveland has NOTHING, NOTHING at the WR pos. The cast they have wouldn't be #3 recievers on most teams. When a 60 year old TE Ben Watson is the best option, THAT'S BAD. And Cleveland hasn't had a decent reciever for 3 years now.
 
#180
#180
n_huffhines said:
You mention guys like Clark, Addai, and James, but the funny thing is none of those guys accomplished jack without Peyton.

Clark had 47 catches this year. Ben Watson left New England and had 68 catches his first year in CLEVELAND. Funny, you didn't mention him when you were talking about Brady's weapons.

You use guys that only had success with Manning to show that he's had great weapons, and then you don't show guys who have had success without Brady...pretty convenient.
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Yeah, we have different definitions of a "weapon" on offense. Watson was a solid TE...Gronkowski is a weapon. I was saying Manning has always been surrounded with 1st round talent at skill positions, and he had those players most of their careers. Brady had some good players from time to time, but there was way more turnover at those skill positions.

Look Manning will make any player better, but people act like that is not the case with Brady...it is Bill Bellichek this...system QB that. In his first couple of seasons that might have been true. 2001-2006 he only passed for 4,000 yards once and never had a 30 TD season. He managed a balanced offense and he was efficient. In 2007 that all changed, he became the weapon...he became the best QB in the league from then to now. In those years he has 26 more TD's and 25 less INT's than Manning in the same amount of games.
 
#185
#185
douglas67 said:
The reason we won a National Championship with Tee Martin, and NOT Peyton Manning?? Tee did not turn the ball over. Peyton is not a great clutch QB. Eli Manning is the better bargain. Eli will win another Super Bowl. Peyton's days are over. I love Peyton, he is a great QB that does not know how to win. It's really is simple is that. Don't blame the defense, they are going to have a bad game once in a great while. If not for special teams, Denver is not in this game. Whenever a Peyton Manning led team has to depend on Peyton, They Lose!! It's that simple. And he didnt win that Super Bowl, the Bears lost it. Peyton should personally thank Lovie Smith for totally messin with the offense in the second half of that game.
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All of Denver and Indy's wins over the past 13 years the teams were totally "depending" on Peyton. Tee is not in the same conversation as Peyton. Get real. Peyton Manning is second all-time in wins as a QB in the NFL and of the top 25 winningest QB's has the third highest win percentage behind Brady and Montana. Who has the most comeback wins in NFL history? That guy who is not "dependable" named Manning. It is amazing that someone that does not know how to win will end their career as the all-time winningest QB and the holder of the most comeback victories in NFL history.

NFL Career Fourth Quarter Comebacks Leaders (since 1960) - Pro-Football-Reference.com
 
#186
#186
thebjd said:
All of Denver and Indy's wins over the past 13 years the teams were totally "depending" on Peyton. Tee is not in the same conversation as Peyton. Get real. Peyton Manning is second all-time in wins as a QB in the NFL and of the top 25 winningest QB's has the third highest win percentage behind Brady and Montana. Who has the most comeback wins in NFL history? That guy who is not "dependable" named Manning. It is amazing that someone that does not know how to win will end their career as the all-time winningest QB and the holder of the most comeback victories in NFL history.

NFL Career Fourth Quarter Comebacks Leaders (since 1960) - Pro-Football-Reference.com
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And a below .500 record in the playoffs.

And that's where the disconnect is with people.

If you are among the greatest of all time and the whole league centers around the qb, how are you 1 and done during the playoffs the majority of your career?

Dan marino is picked on for a lack of playoff success and no ring. Yet, his miami teams were only 1 and done from the playoffs three times in his career. And his teams generally did not have the best record and home field going into the playoffs
 
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#188
#188
99gator said:
And a below .500 record in the playoffs.

And that's where the disconnect is with people.

If you are among the greatest of all time and the whole league centers around the qb, how are you 1 and done during the playoffs the majority of your career?

Dan marino is picked on for a lack of playoff success and no ring. Yet, his miami teams were only 1 and done from the playoffs three times in his career. And his teams generally did not have the best record and home field going into the playoffs
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Manning has a better playoff record than Marino. Both great QB's with under .500 winning percentage. Trent Dilfer, Joe Theisman and Jim Plunkett have a better playoff winning percentage than Brady and Montana so they are obviously more clutch.
 
#189
#189
thebjd said:
All of Denver and Indy's wins over the past 13 years the teams were totally "depending" on Peyton. Tee is not in the same conversation as Peyton. Get real. Peyton Manning is second all-time in wins as a QB in the NFL and of the top 25 winningest QB's has the third highest win percentage behind Brady and Montana. Who has the most comeback wins in NFL history? That guy who is not "dependable" named Manning. It is amazing that someone that does not know how to win will end their career as the all-time winningest QB and the holder of the most comeback victories in NFL history.

NFL Career Fourth Quarter Comebacks Leaders (since 1960) - Pro-Football-Reference.com
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And how many of those all time wins and comebacks are in the playoffs? When it truly matters.
 
#190
#190
thebjd said:
Manning has a better playoff record than Marino. Both great QB's with under .500 winning percentage. Trent Dilfer, Joe Theisman and Jim Plunkett have a better playoff winning percentage than Brady and Montana so they are obviously more clutch.
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8-10 and 9-11 are splitting hairs.

Look, when people discuss manning, they lump him in with the top 5 at the position ever or even the best ever. That is what we are talking about here.

And yes, compared to that elite level of all time great, his lack of "clutch" is very noticeable.

The old "great players arent always great, they are just great when they have to be" does not apply to manning in the playoffs
 
#191
#191
JMSqb11 said:
And how many of those all time wins and comebacks are in the playoffs? When it truly matters.
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Without the other wins the playoff games would not have been played. Teams don't accidently get to the playoffs. Manning has won nine playoff games and that is tied for 9th all-time. He is also tied for most playoff losses with Brett Favre. It is what it is.

I also remember a big comeback against Brady in the playoffs.
 
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#192
#192
thebjd said:
Manning has a better playoff record than Marino. Both great QB's with under .500 winning percentage. Trent Dilfer, Joe Theisman and Jim Plunkett have a better playoff winning percentage than Brady and Montana so they are obviously more clutch.
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Trent Dilfer went 6-5 (.545)
Joe Theismann went 9-6 (.600)
Jim Plunkett went 10-8 (.555)

How are any of those better than Montana 16-7 (.695) or Brady 17-6 (.739)?

All of them ARE better than Peyton however 9-11 (.450)
 
#193
#193
thebjd said:
Without the other wins the playoff games would not have been played. Teams don't accidently get to the playoffs. Manning has won nine playoff games and that is tied for 9th all-time. He is also tied for most playoff losses with Brett Favre. It is what it is.
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I'll just say this. People like to say that brady and the pats are peyton's nemesis.

Truth is, manning's teams have been equal opportunity when losing in the playoffs.

And his teams have been heavy favorites in several of them
 
#194
#194
In the Boro said:
Trent Dilfer went 6-5 (.545)
Joe Theismann went 9-6 (.600)
Jim Plunkett went 10-8 (.555)

How are any of those better than Montana 16-7 (.695) or Brady 17-6 (.739)?

All of them ARE better than Peyton however 9-11 (.450)
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Dilfer played in eleven post-season games? C'Mon man. He went twice. Once with the Bucs and once with the Ravens. He was 4-1. Plunkett was 8-2. Theismann was 6-2. I didn't pull their records out of my arse. Where did you get your info?
 
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#195
#195
99gator said:
I'll just say this. People like to say that brady and the pats are peyton's nemesis.

Truth is, manning's teams have been equal opportunity when losing in the playoffs.

And his teams have been heavy favorites in several of them
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It's not like Peyton hasn't won a Superbowl.

I've never seen one player carry a whole team like Peyton's last year at the Colts. Anybody with any football grey matter could see it, and it was reflected in what happened to the Colts when he went down.

Brady has ALWAYS had a stronger supporting cast, like the Gators have always had against TN even during Fulmer's best years, and I can't stand the comparison. No one with any football nounce doubts this.

Brady has been great in a system; Peyton is just simply the greatest, and its not even close.

I actually think if the Denver GM have any brains at all, he will win another SB next year and then the argument will be as moot as it should be now.
 
#197
#197
JMSqb11 said:
Read the context. I said people act like if PM had overruled Fox, he would get benched. That's how it comes across with people blaming Fox for being the sole decision maker.
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I see I see, my bad. But Fox definitely gets a lot of blame. So does Peyton. It was just ridiculous.
 
#198
#198
Saying Manning is the best of all time is like saying LeBron is the best of all time. People forget that there is only one thing you play for in this game.
 
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