Manti Te’o documentary (Netflix)

#76
#76
n_huffhines said:
You don't have sympathy for people with gender confusion? ****, I do. Doesn't make everything alright but it helps to understand what happened.

Gender confusion wasn't even a topic when I was a kid. My peers with gender confusion were ****ed and a lot of them probabky did bizarre things because they don't know what was happening to them, much like this confused person.
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Does it excuse what he did? He is not a victim here.
 
#77
#77
stolitonic said:
See, that's the problem though.
I don't know you in person that I know of. Couldn't pick you out of a lineup if my life depended on it . That being said, I can tell that you're probably a guy over the age of 40 or 45. No problem, I am also.

My point being that at 21 or 22 we probably did things the old fashioned way. Saw a girl out somewhere you thought was cute, flirted, got the digits, and so on and so forth.

Things just don't work like that anymore. Well, they do just not for most people. Hell, I have a niece who is engaged to some guy she has met one time for a week. The rest of their 2 year relationship has been online/phone.
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I'm younger than 40.

Call me old school, but I think he was really burying the lede when he neglected to mention the fact that this was purely an online relationship and he had never even met the girl. That is not a critique of dating online. All sorts of people meet someone online and it develops into serious relationships but there's a key difference between that and the Te'o story...they actually meet in person. That's kind of a big detail that he left out.

Te'o always seemed to know where a camera was and seemed eager talk about his girlfrirend, but he never mentioned that. I suppose he could have neglected to tell the media that out of embarrassment, but I'm sure he also suspected the story doesn't sound quite as good if he said "Well, we've never actually met."
 
#80
#80
05_never_again said:
I felt like the doc subtly is telling the viewer "See, he's confused about his gender identity, so that's why he tried to have this relationship with Manti Te'o. Feel sorry for him." I just don't feel sorry for him.
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We have to talk about what happened. For 12 years I was confused about what type of person would do this hoax. Now we know. It's the story. It's not an excuse. It is an explanation. You can still feel sympathy for people who did something wrong. You don't have to. That's not the point of telling what happened but it's a byproduct for some. They tell the story and you get to feel about it however you want but not telling this aspect would be failing to tell the story.
 
#81
#81
n_huffhines said:
We have to talk about what happened. For 12 years I was confused about what type of person would do this hoax. Now we know. It's the story. It's not an excuse. It is an explanation. You can still feel sympathy for people who did something wrong. You don't have to. That's not the point of telling what happened but it's a byproduct for some. They tell the story and you get to feel about it however you want but not telling this aspect would be failing to tell the story.
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Just my opinion, but the doc kind of goes more into "excuse" rather than "explanation" territory. There were a couple of instances where Naya claims "I'm not proud of it," but had a smile on his face. It's just odd.
 
#82
#82
n_huffhines said:
We have to talk about what happened. For 12 years I was confused about what type of person would do this hoax. Now we know. It's the story. It's not an excuse. It is an explanation. You can still feel sympathy for people who did something wrong. You don't have to. That's not the point of telling what happened but it's a byproduct for some. They tell the story and you get to feel about it however you want but not telling this aspect would be failing to tell the story.
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It may explain why. No idea why you would feel sympathy to someone who manipulated another person. The reasons why dont change any of it. Except for being another/a fact in the case, it's pointless.
 
#83
#83
05_never_again said:
Just my opinion, but the doc kind of goes more into "excuse" rather than "explanation" territory. There were a couple of instances where Naya claims "I'm not proud of it," but had a smile on his face. It's just odd.
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Our differing viewpoints here probably have to do more with us than they do the doc.

Everything about it is odd. Naya is odd. A smile could be a smile of embarrassment for having done something completely batshit and inexcusable.

I think Naya likes attention but I don't think I can conclude that means she isn't remorseful.
 
#84
#84
LouderVol said:
It may explain why. No idea why you would feel sympathy to someone who manipulated another person. The reasons why dont change any of it. Except for being another/a fact in the case, it's pointless.
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So you've never felt sympathy for somebody who did something wrong? ****, dude. I feel bad for Judas Iscariot.

You can be disappointed in somebody's actions and still have empathy for them.
 
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#85
#85
n_huffhines said:
Our differing viewpoints here probably have to do more with us than they do the doc.

Everything about it is odd. Naya is odd. A smile could be a smile of embarrassment for having done something completely batshit and inexcusable.

I think Naya likes attention but I don't think I can conclude that means she isn't remorseful.
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I agree with that last part - definitely likes attention, and on some level I think enjoys reminiscing about the "relationship" with Te'o, but probably wouldn't do it all over again.
 
#86
#86
n_huffhines said:
So you've never felt sympathy for somebody who did something wrong? ****, dude. I feel bad for Judas Iscariot.

You can be disappointed in somebody's actions and still have empathy for them.
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Sympathy until they justify/explain/use their issue to harm someone else. Just because most child abusers were abused as kids themselves doesnt mean anyone should feel bad for them.

Their own actions mean far more than their history ever will. I would feel bad for the guy until he brought someone else in.

My actions make me a piece of s**t, doesnt matter if I was ignorant, unaware, confused.
 
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#87
#87
LouderVol said:
Sympathy until they justify/explain/use their issue to harm someone else. Just because most child abusers were abused as kids themselves doesnt mean anyone should feel bad for them.

Their own actions mean far more than their history ever will. I would feel bad for the guy until he brought someone else in.

My actions make me a piece of s**t, doesnt matter if I was ignorant, unaware, confused.
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I think you have different ideas about what sympathy means. If you feel sympathy for someone, it doesn't mean you don't think they are a POS. The two ideas are not mutually exclusive. Their history doesn't mean more than their actions. I haven't said you "should" or shouldn't feel anything. You are the one who can't fathom feeling sympathy for a victim who also victimized somebody else.

Honestly, we're all bullies and we're all victims at times. We deserve to be judged for our actions, and it's not weird for somebody judging us to also feel sympathy for our history.
 
#88
#88
n_huffhines said:
I think you have different ideas about what sympathy means. If you feel sympathy for someone, it doesn't mean you don't think they are a POS. The two ideas are not mutually exclusive. Their history doesn't mean more than their actions. I haven't said you "should" or shouldn't feel anything. You are the one who can't fathom feeling sympathy for a victim who also victimized somebody else.

Honestly, we're all bullies and we're all victims at times. We deserve to be judged for our actions, and it's not weird for somebody judging us to also feel sympathy for our history.
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Empathy maybe. Sympathy is too far for me after their actions.
 
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#89
#89
I find it difficult to find sympathy for people who, in my opinion, have brought all or most of their problems upon themselves. In Naya's case, the "issue" I'm referring to is the hoax that was pulled, not the gender identity problems. I know that makes me an a-hole in the eyes of some, but oh well. I can feel sympathy for someone who I think is a POS provided I don't think they brought it on themselves.

With the Te'o hoax, I suppose I can say that is a sad situation, but I don't have any sympathy for Naya personally insofar as the scam that was pulled.
 
#90
#90
The first thing that comes to my mind when I read the name Manti Teo is how the national media blew smoke up this nation's skirts about how great he was. I isolated on his first couple of plays as a defender against Bama for the NC. He got smeared his first couple of contacts and after that and the rest of the game any time a Bama OL got close to him he had to tie his cleats or something. Watch a show about his being catfished? I may have time for it someday but tonight is toenail trimming night and I need to pay attention to my cuticles.
 
#91
#91
Remy said:
The first thing that comes to my mind when I read the name Manti Teo is how the national media blew smoke up this nation's skirts about how great he was. I isolated on his first couple of plays as a defender against Bama for the NC. He got smeared his first couple of contacts and after that and the rest of the game any time a Bama OL got close to him he had to tie his cleats or something. Watch a show about his being catfished? I may have time for it someday but tonight is toenail trimming night and I need to pay attention to my cuticles.
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He was in a bad place mentally for that game. His girlfriend who he thought was dead had called to say she was alive just hours before kickoff. Imagine what was going through his head.
 
#92
#92
Remy said:
The first thing that comes to my mind when I read the name Manti Teo is how the national media blew smoke up this nation's skirts about how great he was. I isolated on his first couple of plays as a defender against Bama for the NC. He got smeared his first couple of contacts and after that and the rest of the game any time a Bama OL got close to him he had to tie his cleats or something. Watch a show about his being catfished? I may have time for it someday but tonight is toenail trimming night and I need to pay attention to my cuticles.
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It's worth watching. Most everything that folks learned about it back then was filtered through the news media and pop culture which most adults now recognize to often be an "unreliable narrators" of events at best. The sports media as always wanted to hype Notre Dame for ratings and they are greatly to blame but it changed my perception of Teo just by filling in more detail about who he was and the elaborateness of the hoax perpetrated on him.
 
#93
#93
K-town Vol Fan said:
He was in a bad place mentally for that game. His girlfriend who he thought was dead had called to say she was alive just hours before kickoff. Imagine what was going through his head.
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She called him two days before the Heisman ceremony, not the BCSNCG. But I guess that was just 768 hours before kickoff.
 
#96
#96
05_never_again said:
I find it difficult to find sympathy for people who, in my opinion, have brought all or most of their problems upon themselves. In Naya's case, the "issue" I'm referring to is the hoax that was pulled, not the gender identity problems. I know that makes me an a-hole in the eyes of some, but oh well. I can feel sympathy for someone who I think is a POS provided I don't think they brought it on themselves.

With the Te'o hoax, I suppose I can say that is a sad situation, but I don't have any sympathy for Naya personally insofar as the scam that was pulled.
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I read your posts and keep thinking you don’t think Manti was duped and you have no sympathy for Manti. Now you appear to not have sympathy for Naya (which I don’t either concerning his duping of Manti). So do you think Manti conspired with Naya all in an effort to create a PR story to enhance his Hiesman possibilities?
 
#97
#97
unfrozencvmanvol said:
It's worth watching. Most everything that folks learned about it back then was filtered through the news media and pop culture which most adults now recognize to often be an "unreliable narrators" of events at best. The sports media as always wanted to hype Notre Dame for ratings and they are greatly to blame but it changed my perception of Teo just by filling in more detail about who he was and the elaborateness of the hoax perpetrated on him.
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This sounds like this is the family on damage control trying to whitewash the story. Doesnt sound any more balanced than what we have heard before.
 
#98
#98
LouderVol said:
This sounds like this is the family on damage control trying to whitewash the story. Doesnt sound any more balanced than what we have heard before.
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The Deadspin guys who broke the story are featured in the documentary as much as Te'o himself. Why the hell would they want to help him for no reason? The person who perpetrated the hoax is on there. None of those people say that Te'o was anything other than a guy who got catfished. I don't understand the resistance some of y'all have to getting more information/context. It's not like anyone is saying anyone who ever made a Te'o joke is a bad person.
 
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#100
#100
walkenvol said:
I read your posts and keep thinking you don’t think Manti was duped and you have no sympathy for Manti. Now you appear to not have sympathy for Naya (which I don’t either concerning his duping of Manti). So do you think Manti conspired with Naya all in an effort to create a PR story to enhance his Hiesman possibilities?
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Conspired with, no. When the story first broke I thought he was probably in on it, but given he first talked to the girl in 2009, family members of Te'o's have confirmed "Lennay" reached out to them too, etc., he probably was genuinely catfished initially.

He was duped, but exaggerated/invented details of the story, totally buried the lede (i.e., he had never met the girl and this was purely online), and continued with the story after he found out he had been duped. The last part of that is easy to excuse but the first 2 parts are not.
 
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