Marcus Smart

#201
#201
Spartacavolus said:
how can one talk about sound judgement in a thread where you post an address and challenge anonymous people?

Again. Amused.
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P1: I will not let others dictate what I choose to do or not do.
P2: Thinking about how my information could be used by others to my detriment is letting others dictate what I choose to do or not do.
C: I don't think about how my information could be used by others to my detriment when I choose to act.

That reasoning is sound.

Whether or not you agree with it makes no difference to whether it is sound judgment.

Now, you could say that I am dumb for positing (P1). But, then you are inferring that sound judgment entails allowing others to dictate your own actions.
 
#202
#202
volfanngaytorland said:
Also saw an article where someone heard him say "You need to go back to Africa" tifwiw not sure if it's reliable at all but that's what was reported
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Hadn't heard that one.

ESPN showed a clip of the TTech fan taunting a Texas A&M player. Not sure if it was this season or a previous season.
 
#203
#203
therealUT said:
We can take an absolutist approach, and we can say that the prohibition against yelling "fire" in a building ought not be a government prohibition. Christopher Hitchens says this exact thing, in a speech where he begins by yelling, "Fire! Fire! Fire!".
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I see your point, but how then does Smart's action not reserve the same right to contextual interpretation? Because we consider physical assault in absolutist terms? And because we consider language regarding things like race to work in absolutist terms in the public sphere (i.e., unqualified free speech)?
 
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#204
#204
Lawrence Wright said:
Hadn't heard that one.

ESPN showed a clip of the TTech fan taunting a Texas A&M player. Not sure if it was this season or a previous season.
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Again tifwiw, not sure if I believe it.

Also, as Sparty pointed out, Smart didn't react until the fan nearly struck him in the face. I'll be interested to see what comes from this on both sides.
 
#205
#205
therealUT said:
P1: I will not let others dictate what I choose to do or not do.
P2: Thinking about how my information could be used by others to my detriment is letting others dictate what I choose to do or not do.
C: I don't think about how my information could be used by others to my detriment when I choose to act.

That reasoning is sound.

Whether or not you agree with it makes no difference to whether it is sound judgment.

Now, you could say that I am dumb for positing (P1). But, then you are inferring that sound judgment entails allowing others to dictate your own actions.
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Once again, I know it's only contextual. But your own logic is getting in your way. Why can't this also apply to Smart's actions?
 
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#206
#206
volprof said:
I see your point, but how then does Smart's action not reserve the same right to contextual interpretation? Because we consider physical assault in absolutist terms? And because we consider language regarding things like race to work in absolutist terms in the public sphere (i.e., unqualified free speech)?
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Smart's actions ought not reserve the right to contextual interpretation, under the law, because speech ought not be subject to contextual interpretation, under the law.

Unqualified free speech ought to be protected on public property. Unqualified freedom from physical violence ought also be protected on public property. Now, one can choose not to speak and one can choose to submit themselves to physical violence (e.g., football players, boxers, basketball players), but this choice is made clear.
 
#207
#207
volprof said:
Once again, I know it's only contextual. But your own logic is getting in your way. Why can't this also apply to Smart's actions?
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It could apply. Herein lies the problem for Smart:

If it is the case that (P1) applies, then Smart is fully responsible for the assault, regardless of what the man said.

So, either Smart is using sound judgment and choosing, soundly, to assault the man; or, Smart may not be using sound judgment and ends up assaulting the man anyway.
 
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#208
#208
Freak said:
The fan can say whatever he wants and Smart can respond with whatever verbal response he chooses. Smart putting his hands on a fan is over the line and he deserves whatever punishment he gets, I don't care if the fan spoke the most hateful words ever to come our of anyone's mouth, it's irrelevant.

Now, if you want to discuss the man being removed from the game or having his season tickets revoked, that's an acceptable consequence.

If a fan shoved a player, he would be escorted from the arena. Players should be held to that same standard, at minimum.
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The first seven words is a problem with fans, they shouldn't think they can act like complete jack***** just because they purchase a ticket. Fans that think in that manner are idiots IMO, you can taunt someone without taking to a personal/racial level. Not condoning what Smart did, but I don't blame him either.
 
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#210
#210
therealUT said:
Sound judgment is hardly arbitrary. Sound judgment pertains to the truth of one's premises and the validity of the form they use in coming to a conclusion. This conclusion can be about future actions, it can be about past actions, it can really be about anything. But, soundness is not arbitrary (and, neither is validity).
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What's considered "sound judgment" is arbitrary in so much as it depends upon context. Even that doesn't tell us much. Smart's actions could be considered unsound according to context (i.e., current state of legal affairs in the US), or they could be considered sound (i.e., a crowd threatens you, so you react back in order to demonstrate that you will not be a pushover.). We use the language of the latter all the time in sports. Trust me, dude, it's all in the Bible.
 
#213
#213
volprof said:
What's considered "sound judgment" is arbitrary in so much as it depends upon context. Even that doesn't tell us much. Smart's actions could be considered unsound according to context (i.e., current state of legal affairs in the US), or they could be considered sound (i.e., a crowd threatens you, so you react back in order to demonstrate that you will not be a pushover.). We use the language of the latter all the time in sports. Trust me, dude, it's all in the Bible.
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I take soundness and validity very strictly, and very technically. The only context that matters is that neither the premises one holds nor what those premises entail contradict each other. This is the subjective truth component for the agent (i.e., it is reducible to internal consistency).

External regulations, situations, etc. only play a part insofar as the agent holds them to be true and uses them as premises.

I gave an argument as to why my judgment, concerning divulging my address, was sound. Smart or the fan may or may not be able to provide arguments to show that their actions reflected sound judgment.
 
#216
#216
Goldencuonzohut said:
There's report that the fan said the n word to smart.
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There's speculation; I've seen no actual report that is what he said, other than Smart claimed he said something racial.

And if we're going to assume and jump to conclusions, I could just as easily say Smart is throwing that out there to cover his butt because he knows he did something stupid; making it racial would gain him sympathy.
 
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#217
#217
VolsSportsFan said:
That could mean a whole lot of things; doesn't mean he said anything racial.
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Based on this guy's repeated behavior at games, I think it's safe to say he said something pretty strong for him to be expressing remorse today. Combine that with Smart saying he was called to n-word and the writing is on the wall.
 
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#218
#218
Hobock said:
Based on this guy's repeated behavior at games, I think it's safe to say he said something pretty strong for him to be expressing remorse today. Combine that with Smart saying he was called to n-word and the writing is on the wall.
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The apology is a joke, he means he's sorry what he said might get out. If you are a 50+ year old man throwing that word at a college student, it's a word you probably use frequently and don't think twice about. If he said it dude needs to be slapped upside his head, I can't stand ignorance.
 
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#219
#219
Is it classy to yell at a 20 year old college student...no but Marcus has got to understand that decision will cost him big time $$$$
 
#221
#221
Vols520 said:
This should end his rants but it won't.
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Why should it? I enjoy both smoking hookah and reading philosophy. I also enjoy getting paid to read philosophy and to think; further, I'll be enjoying my paid trip back to Boston in mid-March to present a paper at Boston College (ironically enough, on the value of violence). I very much love both myself and my life.
 
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#222
#222
VolsSportsFan said:
That could mean a whole lot of things; doesn't mean he said anything racial.
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So take it for what it's worth to you.

It's clear the guy, allegedly by his own admission, claims he made comments to Smart he should not have said, and has since apologized.

There's footage of the same guy flipping off a Texas A&M player after he dunked off an inbounds play.

It not unreasonable to suggest what Smart claims happened, actually happened...but it doesn't excuse his actions.
 
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#223
#223
therealUT said:
Why should it? I enjoy both smoking hookah and reading philosophy. I also enjoy getting paid to read philosophy and to think; further, I'll be enjoying my paid trip back to Boston in mid-March to present a paper at Boston College (ironically enough, on the value of violence). I very much love both myself and my life.
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And I am happy for you. You seem like a fantastic and fun individual with a positive outlook on life. I wish you nothing but happiness and joy.

Better Freak?
 
#224
#224
Lawrence Wright said:
So take it for what it's worth to you.

It's clear the guy, allegedly by his own admission, claims he made comments to Smart he should not have said, and has since apologized.

There's footage of the same guy flipping off a Texas A&M player after he dunked off an inbounds play.

It not unreasonable to suggest what Smart claims happened, actually happened...but it doesn't excuse his actions.
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First, this is a fun read:
"Go Back To Africa" Twitter Rumor Becomes Marcus Smart Story Canon

Second, why is it reasonable to suggest that what Smart claims happened, actually happened? Smart has every incentive in the world to lie and present himself in the most sympathetic light possible; easiest avenue, allege that someone called him a ****** and that is the reason he resorted to physical violence.
 
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