Marlin Lane or Rajion Neal?

#151
#151
Roustabout said:
Pretty sure that hill was just moved to fullback
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That would be interesting considering how thin UT is at RB. That would leave only 3 scholarship players there, right?

Hill as a FB/HB does open up some options though.
 
#153
#153
GoDucks349 said:
If the spread you guys run is anything like Oregon's when it comes to depth charts, you'll see three to five people running the ball. Wide receivers, tight ends, RBs etc.
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More of a fast pace, screen & run in down your throat offense IMO. We dunno what butch is gonna do,Honestly It depends on who the strength guys are in August..

With Oregon They ran the outside zone a lot last year and a little inside. If our transition back to the 4-3 is successful it'll be a great game to watch. I do think it'll be a low scoring game.
 
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#156
#156
Roustabout said:
Pretty sure that hill was just moved to fullback
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Too bad Dooley moved Fugate from FB/HB. Dude was only a NFL FB/HB in the making. Good speed, soft hands, and he actually wanted to rip heads off blocking. Had he not robbed Neal of his sophomore year at RB and not moved Fugate our running game might be even better, SMH.
 
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#157
#157
I would start Lane. Watching Neal run last year was painful. He spent too much time in the backfield waiting for a huge hole to open and would then just try and run it outside. Its just frustrating seeing an opening and watching a RB lose yards or no gain because he has no vision. Lane would at least try and push the pile if there was no hole and just seemed to try harder.
Look at the stats and the teams all you want but it was clear Dooley was to hard headed to make a change. Neal would be hurting us with his dancing and bouncing outisde, Lane would come in to spell him and get a couple of solid carries giving us a successful run game and Dools would pull him right out and try running it 3 times with Neal and his dancing and bouncing would just get us a 3 and out. The sad thing was this happened game after game but apparently Dools refused to make the in game adjustments and it hurt not only Lane but the team as a whole.
 
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#158
#158
RichRollin said:
Too bad Dooley moved Fugate from FB/HB. Dude was only a NFL FB/HB in the making. Good speed, soft hands, and he actually wanted to rip heads off blocking. Had he not robbed Neal of his sophomore year at RB and not moved Fugate our running game might be even better, SMH.
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Those were bad personnel moves. Short sighted in both cases.
 
#159
#159
sjt18 said:
Show me two equal talents.

But directly to your point. The younger player, if truly equal, can use the experience of that PT to help you in the future. If you have a Sr and a SO that are equal then you let the So get the experience so he's even better in the future. You lose nothing now and gain alot later.
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Now your talking about the amount of playing time. I think Neal and Lane get about the same amount of playing time this year. We'll need them both to contribute to have success. It has little to do with who starts the game. Lane will still get the experience he needs to develop.

I think we both can agree that who ever has more talent should get the start and play the most. We just disagree on whether seniority should play any role in deciding who starts. I do agree though that sometime coaches go to far with it and it hurts the team. Overall seniority shouldn't play a big role in deciding who starts and who plays the most.
 
#163
#163
JFBanicki said:
I would start Lane. Watching Neal run last year was painful. He spent too much time in the backfield waiting for a huge hole to open and would then just try and run it outside. Its just frustrating seeing an opening and watching a RB lose yards or no gain because he has no vision. Lane would at least try and push the pile if there was no hole and just seemed to try harder.
Look at the stats and the teams all you want but it was clear Dooley was to hard headed to make a change. Neal would be hurting us with his dancing and bouncing outisde, Lane would come in to spell him and get a couple of solid carries giving us a successful run game and Dools would pull him right out and try running it 3 times with Neal and his dancing and bouncing would just get us a 3 and out. The sad thing was this happened game after game but apparently Dools refused to make the in game adjustments and it hurt not only Lane but the team as a whole.
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Statement: I think you're throwing Neal under the bus without complete justification.

Basis 1: Neal is guilty of the dancing you mentioned until about halfway through the season. At that point Jay Graham got something through not only Neal's head but Lane's and Devron's as well. If there's no hole make forward motion happen through the tackles or whatever, just move the ball forward. JG echoed DD's rightful desire for more violence from the backs and OL. Neal responded by starting to hit the line and doing pretty well. Lane and Devron did this too. Not only that, Neal periodically showed a tendency to not be easily dragged down as in the past. He usually ended up being tackled by more than one man.

Basis 2: The OL was great at pass blocking but often didn't get much push for the RBs, hence the dancing.
So it wasn't just Neal.

Basis 3: Prior to the start of the 2012 season, we kept hearing about Neal's workouts, his going to workouts with the OL, videos of him doing some serious hard work. We heard nothing about Lane putting in that kind of time. Perhaps this is why DD kept calling on Neal. Even now, we get bits and pieces about Neal's prepping for 2013 and only stuff about Lane not being allowed to work with the team until very recently. You want to get better or not. You either show you want to help make your team successful or not.

Basis 4: All three backs we used produced only marginally acceptable results. But it wasn't their fault. I never hated DD as some of you demand, based on the constant spite and repetitive hateful threads. I have to admit though, that his play calling was so unimaginative that opponents knew what play we were doing better than our own team. That's why we never had the running game we should have had. The only reason our passing game was as good as it was, was due to the sheer talent of the WRs (when on), superb OL protection, and Bray's talent despite his lack of decision making prowess. But the running game was obvious play-wise. Teams knew where to position their defenders to stop it. Remember the beast mode attempt in the Georgia game to gain some yardage? They knew exactly what we were doing. Well, nearly all our running plays were just as obvious.

Summary: Neal isn't the cause of UT's improved but still poor running game of 2012. At least not the sole cause. I have no doubt that Lane is a talented back, but so is Neal. They will complement each other very well under the Jones system if Lane can keep himself on the team. Jones' system will get Neal in more open space situations. Then we will see a Neal some of you don't even know we have. Same thing with Lane, who has more ability to make defenders miss if he has running room. I dare say when Hill spots either, we will find ourselves with a midsized battering ram. Hill isn't that big but has good upper body strength, runs hard, and is not easy to haul down, and his legs churn until he's horizontal on the ground. I look forward to Neal making all you doubters kneel in humiliating homage this season. You have no idea what's coming in 2013.
 
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#164
#164
Butch will choose the right one. It's in his pedigree. Butch only needed a canvas to paint on and now he has it on Rocky Top! Fans, this is a big deal. Go to UTsports.com and read the story about the new metric that for the last two years ranks Butch Jones teams fourth in both overall coaching team efficiency and defensive efficiency only behind Nick Saban, Les Miles, and Brian Kelly.
 
#166
#166
JFBanicki said:
I would start Lane. Watching Neal run last year was painful. He spent too much time in the backfield waiting for a huge hole to open and would then just try and run it outside. Its just frustrating seeing an opening and watching a RB lose yards or no gain because he has no vision. Lane would at least try and push the pile if there was no hole and just seemed to try harder.
Look at the stats and the teams all you want but it was clear Dooley was to hard headed to make a change. Neal would be hurting us with his dancing and bouncing outisde, Lane would come in to spell him and get a couple of solid carries giving us a successful run game and Dools would pull him right out and try running it 3 times with Neal and his dancing and bouncing would just get us a 3 and out. The sad thing was this happened game after game but apparently Dools refused to make the in game adjustments and it hurt not only Lane but the team as a whole.
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Absolutely, Spot On, JFB. I was furious game after game as we repeatedly would get some semblance of a running game and here comes dancing Neal again.

That being said I completely agree with Woodsman on all 4 of his basis points - 1. He did improve in hitting the holes quicker later in the season. However, that is just basics and shouldn't be something being taught to a starter halfway through a season.
2. OL assessment is correct and hitting the designated hole hard and fast is the RBs most effective way to aid the OL when they struggle. (Attack the DL when they are in initial engagement with the OL, don't give them additional time to shuck a blocker and make a play)
3. I truly believe that this is the crux of why Neal was starting ( and depending on the underlying specifics may or may not have been justification).
4. My only contention here is that even if defenses do not know where you are going and are out of position, if a RB dances , they have time to appear to be in position.
 
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#168
#168
Was Neal injured against Miss St last year? It looks like Neal was the "MAN" until that game then he didn't play a couple games and Lane got the majority of the touches after that. Is that correct or am I missing something?
 
#169
#169
1972 Grad said:
It's not just you who thinks that way. Neither one is hard to bring down, but Lane at least has some moves, and might make somebody miss. Neal is supposedly fast, but doesn't turn on his speed unless he is in the open, which doesn't happen often.
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You guys sure made a great call on Neal.
 
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