Masters Week!

#26
#26
Lexvol said:
You know, they used to say the same thing about Jack Nicholas a Payne Stewart. Payne came around in his latter years.
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Payne never ventured toward historical greatness like Phil is approaching.

Payne had the sweetest, smoothest swing in golf when he was playing, but no part of his game was clearly better than the field. Mickelson can cream it and his wedge game is clearly better than most of the field (except for Tiger and Azinger)
 
#28
#28
BigPapaVol said:
Payne never ventured toward historical greatness like Phil is approaching.

Payne had the sweetest, smoothest swing in golf when he was playing, but no part of his game was clearly better than the field. Mickelson can cream it and his wedge game is clearly better than most of the field (except for Tiger and Azinger)
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I didn't take enough of your post out. Nicholas and Stewart were both poster boys for AHoles on tour for quite a few years. The people around pro golf that I know will still tell you that about Jack.
 
#29
#29
There's always some "old-timers" that make a run:

Nick Price, Olazabal, Couples, Cabrera, etc.

Love Master's week - US Open is my favorite but the Master's gets it all going. -- kinda like starting the NASCAR season with Daytona.
 
#30
#30
If Tiger left the driver in the bag and played 3-wood or stinger 2-iron off the tee, he could probably win by at least 3 strokes, but he probably won't which brings anybody in the field that's hitting greens and has a hot putter into contention.
Personally I would like to see an American win it, but if Tiger or Phil aren't on their game it may end up being Stenson or one of a few other European players turn for the green jacket.
 
#34
#34
JOEY'S ALL VOL !!! said:
If Tiger left the driver in the bag and played 3-wood or stinger 2-iron off the tee, he could probably win by at least 3 strokes, but he probably won't which brings anybody in the field that's hitting greens and has a hot putter into contention.
Personally I would like to see an American win it, but if Tiger or Phil aren't on their game it may end up being Stenson or one of a few other European players turn for the green jacket.
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Uhh.....the 3 wood / stinger British Open special won't cut it at the Masters. The guy who can stop the ball (read: hit it high with spin) where he wants on the greens gets it done. The new length and emphasis on tee shots gives him a huge advantage because of his length and ability to hit moonshot 5 irons. He gives that advantage away, then he's relying on his putter and he's just another player.

Stenson ain't the type of putter to win at Augusta and very few of the Euros are. This is American high ball, slick green golf at its finest. Euros need not apply.
 
#35
#35
BigPapaVol said:
Uhh.....the 3 wood / stinger British Open special won't cut it at the Masters. The guy who can stop the ball (read: hit it high with spin) where he wants on the greens gets it done. The new length and emphasis on tee shots gives him a huge advantage because of his length and ability to hit moonshot 5 irons. He gives that advantage away, then he's relying on his putter and he's just another player.

Stenson ain't the type of putter to win at Augusta and very few of the Euros are. This is American high ball, slick green golf at its finest. Euros need not apply.
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I know you wanted to drive home your point there, butTiger is far from just another player with the flat stick. In fact, he may be the best par putter in the history of the game.

I can tell you really follow the game, but it doesn't seem you give enough credit to the importance of the short game and putting to winning the green jacket. Maybe I'm misreading what you've been saying here...
 
#36
#36
orange+white=heaven said:
I know you wanted to drive home your point there, butTiger is far from just another player with the flat stick. In fact, he may be the best par putter in the history of the game.

I can tell you really follow the game, but it doesn't seem you give enough credit to the importance of the short game and putting to winning the green jacket. Maybe I'm misreading what you've been saying here...
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Tiger is clearly the best clutch putter in the history of the game, period, but others can have great putting weeks and be competitive. Hence, regular events tend to become putting contests.

The Masters was formerly an approach shot and putting tournament. The added length has simply made it such that only a few of the players in the field can go at the greens (designed for shorter irons) with the type of trajectory to leave the right putt. The list of potential winners falls off dramatically, so now Tiger only has to outputt a few folks, all of which he can outputt. Putting matters at Augusta, but not as much as ball placement on the approach. Defensive putting is a sure fire way to lose and the guys that can't hoist it high enough to avoid defensive putting and chipping, have no prayer from the word go (unless all of the big hitters with some semblance of touch, collectively play like hell).
 
#37
#37
Many of the players have said that this may be the first time since the length was added that we will truly see it's effect.
The course is dry right now, and the ones I've heard discuss it, say the ball is not rolling out even with the dryness. Barring rain, I think we will see The Masters played this year as it was intended with the changes...
 
#38
#38
orange+white=heaven said:
Many of the players have said that this may be the first time since the length was added that we will truly see it's effect.
The course is dry right now, and the ones I've heard discuss it, say the ball is not rolling out even with the dryness. Barring rain, I think we will see The Masters played this year as it was intended with the changes...
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....and I think it's very unfortunate that a large slew of the field is irrelevant today, even before the opening tee shot. I love everything about the Masters and can't wait to get there, but I resent that the changes have so limited the contenders.
 
#39
#39
BigPapaVol said:
....and I think it's very unfortunate that a large slew of the field is irrelevant today, even before the opening tee shot. I love everything about the Masters and can't wait to get there, but I resent that the changes have so limited the contenders.
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But I believe they want that effect. The Masters is not looking for Joe Schmo to win the tournamnet. It prefers the winner to be among the elite golfers. Larry Mize was a nice hometown story, but that is not who they are looking to crown.
 
#40
#40
i wouldn't count out the aussie adam scott. i think youth could shine. does casey or maybe even immelman have a chance?
 
#41
#41
....and I think it's very unfortunate that a large slew of the field is irrelevant today, even before the opening tee shot. I love everything about the Masters and can't wait to get there, but I resent that the changes have so limited the contenders.
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I want to see this one play out before falling in line with you. The opposite argument to your position is that with equipment and ball advances, all Augusta National did was make it so that the players today have to hit the same club into the green as the players of twenty years ago did.

Mother nature has precluded us from getting a chance to see if that is really true up until now.
I'm really looking forward to seeing this one play out. Then I look forward to revisiting where you stand, BPV...
 
#42
#42
orange+white=heaven said:
I want to see this one play out before falling in line with you. The opposite argument to your position is that with equipment and ball advances, all Augusta National did was make it so that the players today have to hit the same club into the green as the players of twenty years ago did.

Mother nature has precluded us from getting a chance to see if that is really true up until now.
I'm really looking forward to seeing this one play out. Then I look forward to revisiting where you stand, BPV...
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I get the stuff about preserving shot value, but the modern ball spins far less, placing even more of a premium on the high ball coming from shorter irons. An unfortunate side effect of the changes is to basically tell Justin Leonard and like that they no longer need apply.

All that said, watch Corey Pavin take it to the house with the best 4 wood hittin' and putting tourney of his life (is he even in the field?)
 
#43
#43
Pavin is not in the field.

Tee times come out later this evening, but you can review the field by using the 'Players List' pull down menu on this page....

Click
 
#44
#44
BigPapaVol said:
I get the stuff about preserving shot value, but the modern ball spins far less, placing even more of a premium on the high ball coming from shorter irons. An unfortunate side effect of the changes is to basically tell Justin Leonard and like that they no longer need apply...
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smart, smart answer...
 
#45
#45
BigPapaVol said:
Uhh.....the 3 wood / stinger British Open special won't cut it at the Masters. The guy who can stop the ball (read: hit it high with spin) where he wants on the greens gets it done. The new length and emphasis on tee shots gives him a huge advantage because of his length and ability to hit moonshot 5 irons. He gives that advantage away, then he's relying on his putter and he's just another player.

Stenson ain't the type of putter to win at Augusta and very few of the Euros are. This is American high ball, slick green golf at its finest. Euros need not apply.
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Tiger's 3-Wood and his 2 Iron don't give up much length at all to others Drivers at least those that can actually hit the fairway with any length and he hits way more fairways without the driver. I'm not a big Tiger fan but in my opinion the added length at Augusta would have minimal effect on his game compared to others with the Big Stick left in the bag. I'm dyed and true Red, White and Blue but if you think some of the Euros like Stenson can't roll it on the greens good enough to win, you are mistaken, to just ask Langher or Faldo, granted their multiple Green Jackets were won before the change in length but the greens were as slick and treacherous then as they are today.
 
#46
#46
JOEY'S ALL VOL !!! said:
Tiger's 3-Wood and his 2 Iron don't give up much length at all to others Drivers at least those that can actually hit the fairway with any length and he hits way more fairways without the driver. I'm not a big Tiger fan but in my opinion the added length at Augusta would have minimal effect on his game compared to others with the Big Stick left in the bag. I'm dyed and true Red, White and Blue but if you think some of the Euros like Stenson can't roll it on the greens good enough to win, you are mistaken, to just ask Langher or Faldo, granted their multiple Green Jackets were won before the change in length but the greens were as slick and treacherous then as they are today.
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As I said, Tiger would be giving up a significant portion of his advantage by keeping the big stick in the bag. I don't think Tiger cares how he wins, just that he does and his 2 iron crusade last summer was proof. If he thought he could win that way, you'd see him hitting it. I'm betting you won't. Might see 3 wood on 10 and 13 because of the amount of hook necessary, but driver will see the other long holes, unless they are very tight, a la 14 and 17.

Langer and Faldo won when the course was an iron players delight and, oh by the way, they, along with Ollie, were the best mid and long iron players in the game. Stenson will have become better with the speed of our greens because of his play here, but I don't like his putting enough to call him a true contender. The Euros beat Americans by slowing the greens. Americans hammer them by speeding them up.
 
#47
#47
orange+white=heaven said:
Pavin is not in the field.

Tee times come out later this evening, but you can review the field by using the 'Players List' pull down menu on this page....

Click
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He's not there, but you get my drift. Some short knocker hittin' a truckload of hybrids and putting out of his tree will win now that I've said they have no chance.
 
#48
#48
BigPapaVol said:
He's not there, but you get my drift. Some short knocker hittin' a truckload of hybrids and putting out of his tree will win now that I've said they have no chance.
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Yeah, but I don't really think so...

Woods,Mickelson,Singh,Els,Ogilvy,maybe LoveIII.

90% chance it comes from that pool.
 
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