Mcbee's fight...

#51
#51
Chris4Vols22 said:
If McBee is trying to make a play on the ball, and the driver is directly in front of him, he obviously has a better chance of hitting the guy on the hand or arm. Pull up the replay and explain to me how McBee did any of the following criteria that constitutes a flagrant 1:
1. Did not make a play on the ball
2. Swung elbows above shoulder level
3. Pushed opponent in back
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I've watched it - he didn't make a play on the ball. He simply just tried to prevent the layup and grabbed whatever he could.
 
#52
#52
If skylar doesn't rake with his right arm on the breakaway, the action with his left arm hitting the guys arm is just a foul. The ref called the reaching over the shoulder from behind, and had to call it, even though it was weaker than most fouls during the game.

Other play, dude attempted to connect twice, and missed. Should have been a technical. If you attempt to hit with your hand, arm or elbow, it's supposed to be a T, regardless if Skylar was pushing him or not.
 
#53
#53
Spartacavolus said:
If skylar doesn't rake with his right arm on the breakaway, the action with his left arm hitting the guys arm is just a foul. The ref called the reaching over the shoulder from behind, and had to call it, even though it was weaker than most fouls during the game.

Other play, dude attempted to connect twice, and missed. Should have been a technical. If you attempt to hit with your hand, arm or elbow, it's supposed to be a T, regardless if Skylar was pushing him or not.
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+1

Spot on
 
#55
#55
I like to watch basketball and I don't pretend to know a whole lot about it but if McBee wanted to slam the guy to the floor he had the perfect opportunity. It looked like to me all he was trying to do was get a whistle for a foul before the guy went up for the layup/dunk. It was pretty obvious he wasn't trying to hurt the guy. Why call it a flagrant? I see dudes going up to block a shot and bust a guy in the head "on accident" and only get a foul called on them.
 
#56
#56
Bassmanbruno said:
I've watched it - he didn't make a play on the ball. He simply just tried to prevent the layup and grabbed whatever he could.
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I can see how the intentional or flagrant 1 was called especially in game speed, but watch the replay. He certainly made a play on the ball with his left hand. I don't see how you can deny that.
 
#57
#57
jp1 said:
I can see how the intentional or flagrant 1 was called especially in game speed, but watch the replay. He certainly made a play on the ball with his left hand. I don't see how you can deny that.
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thats the point, apparently the view you all got on tv was a certain angle.

those that were at the game could clearly see where skylar was coming from, and a good angle on it.

he came up from behind and pretty much blindly grabbed with both arms, with no immediate intention to hit the ball. if he came close to the ball it was purely by luck, but he CLEARLY when winding up was just grabbing for the ball handler to stop him from getting a basket.
 
#58
#58
JD05 said:
I like to watch basketball and I don't pretend to know a whole lot about it but if McBee wanted to slam the guy to the floor he had the perfect opportunity. It looked like to me all he was trying to do was get a whistle for a foul before the guy went up for the layup/dunk. It was pretty obvious he wasn't trying to hurt the guy. Why call it a flagrant? I see dudes going up to block a shot and bust a guy in the head "on accident" and only get a foul called on them.
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you said it exactly.

you dont have to be trying to hurt someone to be called for a flagrant. if it was malicious then it could be a flagrant 2, which results in an ejection and is usually a violent foul.

a flagrant 1 is pretty much what you described. making a move/foul that isnt a basketball move, and is solely for the purpose of stopping the other guy from scoring. I.E. going for a block but fouling, you were actually going for the ball and making a basketball move so its not a flagrant foul. Skylar, as you said, wasnt really going for the ball, but was just trying to grab a guy to stop him from scoring. textbook definition of flagrant 1.
 
#59
#59
JD05 said:
I like to watch basketball and I don't pretend to know a whole lot about it but if McBee wanted to slam the guy to the floor he had the perfect opportunity. It looked like to me all he was trying to do was get a whistle for a foul before the guy went up for the layup/dunk. It was pretty obvious he wasn't trying to hurt the guy. Why call it a flagrant? I see dudes going up to block a shot and bust a guy in the head "on accident" and only get a foul called on them.
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As bleeding orange said - a flagrant 1 doesn't mean he's trying to hurt the guy. It's just that he wasn't making a play on the ball but rather grabbing whatever he could to stop a layup.
 
#61
#61
I'm not sure how that other kid could have been doing anything other than trying to get a pop in on McBee. McBee had taken the ball and had both hands on it. The other guy's arms were going toward McBee's face, not the ball. I'd have rung him up for trying to get a shot in and trying to make it look like it was just part of the tussle.
 
#62
#62
Bassmanbruno said:
I've watched it - he didn't make a play on the ball. He simply just tried to prevent the layup and grabbed whatever he could.
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Do you know how many flagrants would be called each game if they called a foul every time contact was made with something besides the ball?

Since you still haven't done it yet, look at the replay. Was clearly going for the ball. Just a blown call.
 
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#64
#64
lumberjack4 said:
I saw all the replay angles and he didn't throw a punch. His hand flew out when McBee ripped the ball away which is normal, but it clearly wasn't a punch.
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His hands or arms wouldn't flail towards skylars head if he had the ball ripped out. His hands would go the other way as the ball is ripped. Any extra movement towards the player would be intentional, especially considering the ball was below their shoulders.
 
#65
#65
Chris4Vols22 said:
Do you know how many flagrants would be called each game if they called a foul every time contact was made with something besides the ball?

Since you still haven't done it yet, look at the replay. Was clearly going for the ball. Just a blown call.
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I don't know what to tell you? Stick to football, maybe?
 
#66
#66
Chris4Vols22 said:
Do you know how many flagrants would be called each game if they called a foul every time contact was made with something besides the ball?

Since you still haven't done it yet, look at the replay. Was clearly going for the ball. Just a blown call.
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Show me a replay of a play that the guy swiped with both arms from behind, difnt get any ball, on an uncontested layup and it wasn't called a flagrant 1.....
 
#67
#67
Spartacavolus said:
His hands or arms wouldn't flail towards skylars head if he had the ball ripped out. His hands would go the other way as the ball is ripped. Any extra movement towards the player would be intentional, especially considering the ball was below their shoulders.
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He also wouldnt have had a upset face and flexing his arms down afterwards. Players wouldn't have stepped infront and then sent to bench. A punch was thrown, refs deemed it unintentional. That was their opinion.

I've played basketball for 25 years, never seen a player have his arms fly forward at someones head with their fist closed when they were pulling away and hands originally at their waist.
 
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#68
#68
Bassmanbruno said:
I don't know what to tell you? Stick to football, maybe?
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I know you don't know what to say because you still haven't looked at the replay.

You can stick to football. I hate the sport outside of the Titans. That's why I'm virtually only here in the bball forum on VN.
 
#69
#69
bleedingTNorange said:
Show me a replay of a play that the guy swiped with both arms from behind, difnt get any ball, on an uncontested layup and it wasn't called a flagrant 1.....
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How hard is it to understand that you can make a play for the ball without actually touching it? Happens all the time. If you guys would just look at the replay, it will be obvious that McBee was going for the ball. He just hit the guys hands/arms instead. Again, none of the following occurred that constitutes a flagrant 1:
1. Was not making a play on the ball
2. Swung elbows above shoulder level
3. Pushed opponent in back
 
#70
#70
Chris4Vols22 said:
How hard is it to understand that you can make a play for the ball without actually touching it? Happens all the time. If you guys would just look at the replay, it will be obvious that McBee was going for the ball. He just hit the guys hands/arms instead. Again, none of the following occurred that constitutes a flagrant 1:
1. Was not making a play on the ball
2. Swung elbows above shoulder level
3. Pushed opponent in back
Click to expand...

Number 1.

I was there and have since watched the replay and te whole game. The view on TV doesn't show as good o an angle as I had of it. Mcbee came from behind, couldn't even see the ball, and reached out with his left hand first iirc trying to grab jersey, and a second later swiped with the right hand. The intentional reaching/grabbing was not a play on the ball, and what was called a flagrant foul. The swipe with the right hand wasn't what initiated the call, it was the reaching/grabbing with the left hand.
 
#72
#72
Chris4Vols22 said:
How hard is it to understand that you can make a play for the ball without actually touching it? Happens all the time. If you guys would just look at the replay, it will be obvious that McBee was going for the ball. He just hit the guys hands/arms instead. Again, none of the following occurred that constitutes a flagrant 1:
1. Was not making a play on the ball
2. Swung elbows above shoulder level
3. Pushed opponent in back
Click to expand...

Ok I have it pulled up right now freeze framed...savannah states player has picked up his dribble and starting his 2 steps for a layup. The ball is out in front of his body and mcbee left hand reaches put and grab the savannah state player up by the shoulder, no where near the ball and pulls back on the player. As he's pulling back ok his shoulder, he swipes with the right hand and hits him around the arm and the ball comes free.

As I said, the intentional is from the left hand that grabs the shoulder of the player who has the ball way out in from of him an is starting his 2 steps into a layup.

Correct call.
 
#73
#73
Btw reviewing the scuffle as well...

Blackman clearly takes his left hand off the ball, and swings with a closed fist. He follows that up with a swinging right elbow, both of these swings are at skylars head not body.


Then if you have any doubt what his intent was watch his reaction afterwards. He turns to mcbee walking towards him with his right hand in a fist like he wants to throw down.
 
#74
#74
UTFanForLife said:
He also wouldnt have had a upset face and flexing his arms down afterwards. Players wouldn't have stepped infront and then sent to bench. A punch was thrown, refs deemed it unintentional. That was their opinion.

I've played basketball for 25 years, never seen a player have his arms fly forward at someones head with their fist closed when they were pulling away and hands originally at their waist.[/QUOTE]


Same here, and even longer, but what used to be pretty is ugly now. Insurance on my legs ran out.

That's why I mentioned what I did. Just from watching ball and knowing the game, dude was pissed. He might have even decided at the last second to pull back a little. I've probably had that type of move attempted, and connected at times, a dozen times over the years.
Its like letting go of the rope in tug of war. There won't be a follow through when someone takes the ball from you, unless you do it intentionally.
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#75
#75
bleedingTNorange said:
Number 1.

I was there and have since watched the replay and te whole game. The view on TV doesn't show as good o an angle as I had of it. Mcbee came from behind, couldn't even see the ball, and reached out with his left hand first iirc trying to grab jersey, and a second later swiped with the right hand. The intentional reaching/grabbing was not a play on the ball, and what was called a flagrant foul. The swipe with the right hand wasn't what initiated the call, it was the reaching/grabbing with the left hand.
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I don't agree with that. His left hand actually raked the player's left arm and helped dislodge the ball. The right hand raked over the shoulder and back, which is why they called it. If he doesn't use the right arm, its not called. If he doesn't use the left arm, and only uses the right to rake the back and shoulder, it is called.
 
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