Meanwhile in Libya

#51
#51
volinbham said:
That "humanitarian intervention" sure is looking better and better...

Theft of US weapons in Libya involved hundreds of guns, sources say | Fox News
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And we still wonder how ISIS could have gotten so well armed...

When the general public finally realizes that the entire Benghazi conspiracy centers around a weapons network that ran from Libya to Turkey and into Syria, maybe this will get people to realize that we have been arming our "enemies", and I use that term loosely.
 
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#52
#52
Rasputin_Vol said:
And we still wonder how ISIS could have gotten so well armed...

When the general public finally realizes that the entire Benghazi conspiracy centers around a weapons network that ran from Libya to Turkey and into Syria, maybe this will get people to realize that we have been arming our "enemies", and I use that term loosely.
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How will they realize this? Quite a few have been saying this for a while but no one in the media would dare.

Stephens was a Cia gut handpicked by Hillary to run that op. The admin acting like he was some clueless diplomat is as big a lie as the youtube video. There was no rescue mission because he was likely told from the start that there would not be one
 
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#53
#53
utvolpj said:
How will they realize this? Quite a few have been saying this for a while but no one in the media would dare.

Stephens was a Cia gut handpicked by Hillary to run that op. The admin acting like he was some clueless diplomat is as big a lie as the youtube video. There was no rescue mission because he was likely told from the start that there would not be one
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If so, then why all the GOP gnashing of teeth and wailing over the loss of four Americans (who apparently you are saying were CIA or running an op for CIA) and who were told that was the risk of their operation?
 
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#54
#54
lawgator1 said:
If so, then why all the GOP gnashing of teeth and wailing over the loss of four Americans (who apparently you are saying were CIA or running an op for CIA) and who were told that was the risk of their operation?
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Op was illegal.
 
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#55
#55
hog88 said:
Op was illegal.
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Its interesting that the GOP talking points memo has been that Obama is at fault for a) not rescuing the people there; and b) getting it wrong originally when he said it was video-related. But now that 2016 is in focus its going to try to be something about Hillary Clinton running or contributing to running of some illegal operation.

In the former, the four who died were brave Americans and we need multiple hearings to vindicate them. Under the latter they will be scofflaws, sent there by HC.

There is no just sense of shame, is there?
 
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#56
#56
lawgator1 said:
Its interesting that the GOP talking points memo has been that Obama is at fault for a) not rescuing the people there; and b) getting it wrong originally when he said it was video-related. But now that 2016 is in focus its going to try to be something about Hillary Clinton running or contributing to running of some illegal operation.

In the former, the four who died were brave Americans and we need multiple hearings to vindicate them. Under the latter they will be scofflaws, sent there by HC.

There is no just sense of shame, is there?
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Same for both sides of the isle. You can't tell me if the roles were reversed a Dem controlled house wouldn't be doing the same.
 
#57
#57
lawgator1 said:
Its interesting that the GOP talking points memo has been that Obama is at fault for a) not rescuing the people there; and b) getting it wrong originally when he said it was video-related. But now that 2016 is in focus its going to try to be something about Hillary Clinton running or contributing to running of some illegal operation.

In the former, the four who died were brave Americans and we need multiple hearings to vindicate them. Under the latter they will be scofflaws, sent there by HC.

There is no just sense of shame, is there?
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Everything I read after the incident pointed to a gun running operation by the CIA. The man in charge was put there by Hillary. Pointing that out had zero to do with any election. It does prove that the video lie was even more ridiculous than previously thought

It's also very likely a gun running op in a nondescript residential house was not going to get air support if found out. I have little doubt the people in charge knew that.

Questions about that kind of op will never see a public hearing in the current dc
 
#58
#58
lawgator1 said:
Its interesting that the GOP talking points memo has been that Obama is at fault for a) not rescuing the people there; and b) getting it wrong originally when he said it was video-related. But now that 2016 is in focus its going to try to be something about Hillary Clinton running or contributing to running of some illegal operation.

In the former, the four who died were brave Americans and we need multiple hearings to vindicate them. Under the latter they will be scofflaws, sent there by HC.

There is no just sense of shame, is there?
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Somewhat off topic, but your post reminded me of how funny it's going to be when Hillary begins distancing herself from Obama and contradicts her previous positions.

Then the media and people like you will suddenly find fault with in Obama in areas where you were happy to defend him, blame someone else, or just plain look the other way. Watch for the media to turn on Obama in 2016 and suddenly find fault with most things he does while contrasting Hillary's competence against that stance.

I'm going to dedicate a thread to it when the time is right.

:popcorn:
 
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#59
#59
DC_Vol said:
Somewhat off topic, but your post reminded me of how funny it's going to be when Hillary begins distancing herself from Obama and contradicts her previous positions.

Then the media and people like you will suddenly find fault with in Obama in areas where you were happy to defend him, blame someone else, or just plain look the other way. Watch for the media to turn on Obama in 2016 and suddenly find fault with most things he does while contrasting Hillary's competence against that stance.

I'm going to dedicate a thread to it when the time is right.

:popcorn:
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Ok, but seems to me that two things are going on right now.

The first is that the media already seem to be turning on Obama. The story of him being uninvolved or uninspired has been picking up steam, even outside the friendly confines of Fox.

Second, big picture-wise, given what is going on with ISIS there is a real debate out there right now about what we do with the ME, Rand Paul, isolationism, Hillary and McCain, etc.
 
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#60
#60
lawgator1 said:
Ok, but seems to me that two things are going on right now.

The first is that the media already seem to be turning on Obama. The story of him being uninvolved or uninspired has been picking up steam, even outside the friendly confines of Fox.

Second, big picture-wise, given what is going on with ISIS there is a real debate out there right now about what we do with the ME, Rand Paul, isolationism, Hillary and McCain, etc.
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Yes, you can see the media start to do things they haven't done in the past. It's sad that their pointing out his inconsistencies or criticizing a position or action is so out of the ordinary that it's noticeable. The Hillary is the anti Obama media campaign will go into full gear in 2016. Obama is gonna get thrown to the wolves.

We will have to nickname the media Peter after it disowns Obama. Most Dems will be on to the next bumper sticker slogan already and probably won't notice the stupidity going on.

It seems Hillary's ME position should be well known from her 2008 campaign. I remember her screaming about getting out of the ME and that dissent was patriotic, etc. etc.
 
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#61
#61
Now we have a Libya-Greece-Oil connection. Greece possibly trying to buy oil not denominated in dollars from the Libyan leadership that is not recognized by NATO/The US. Libya's "recognized" government has been breaking up these sales to Greece for quite some time.

Libya forces tanker away from supplying rival government | Reuters

The tanker Anwaar Afriqya was approaching the port of Misrata, but diverted to Tobruk, a port official at the latter said on Monday.

"Our planes are forcing an oil tanker to sail to Tobruk after it had been on the way first to Misrata," Saqer al-Joroushi, air force commander for recognized Prime Minister Abdullah al-Thinni, told state news agency Lana.

Libya's recognized government works from a headquarters in the east of the country since the summer when rival forces under the banner Libya Dawn took over the capital Tripoli and installed their own self-proclaimed government.

The latest tanker incident has underscored how increasingly Libya's oil infrastructure is at the heart of conflict that Western powers worry is dragging it closer to a civil war.
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So basically, the leadership in Tripoli is not recognized as the true leaders of Libya and the recognized leaders are stationed in the east. The eastern group diverted a tanker and seized control of it.

UPDATE 1-Libya producing 363,000 bpd of oil -rival minister | Reuters


Why isn't the leadership group in Tripoli recognized as the true leaders of Libya? And what difference should it make to Western powers if they sell their oil to Greece outside of dollars?
 
#63
#63
BBC News - The rise of IS in Libya and how the West will respond

The Egyptian air strikes in Libya have opened up a new front in the war against Islamic State (IS) with the extremists there exploiting a power vacuum after the fall of Colonel Gaddafi.

Islamic State are just one of hundreds of militias looking to gain power in a country torn apart from factionalism.
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Wait... Islamic State... Libya? Wait a minute, you mean there's really a link between Libya and Syria? Who woulda thunk it?

Was Syrian weapons shipment factor in ambassador’s Benghazi visit?
 
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#65
#65
NYT article basically connects the dots between Libya's central bank, Western powrs and ISIS & Al Qaeda...

One of Libya’s Rival Governments Moves to Control Oil Revenue


That government’s prime minister, Abdullah al-Thinni, issued a directive for the National Oil Company to stop passing incoming revenue to the central bank and instead to direct those funds to its own bank account in the United Arab Emirates, a major backer of Mr. Thinni’s government and its faction.

The move could now set off a host of sweeping consequences, potentially including a breakup of the bank, a drastic rebalancing of what has appeared to be a stalemate in the day-to-day battle between the two factions or a Western intervention to seize and manage the bank’s foreign reserves.

But how the situation might play out is difficult to predict, in part because the prime minister’s directive appeared to contradict the position of the Western powers toward the status of the bank and the larger Libyan conflict.

Financial institutions in the United States, Britain and other Western powers hold much of Libya’s foreign reserves, so they may play a critical role in the disposition of those assets.

Mr. Thinni’s directive also comes as the Tobruk-Bayda government is experiencing an acute shortage of cash. With oil revenue down, the central bank has paid only for salaries and subsidies.
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Supporters of that government contend that the bank’s posture of neutrality benefits the other side of the conflict, based in the cities of Misurata and Tripoli. That faction includes both moderate and extremist Islamists as well as some regional militias, and supporters of the Tobruk-Bayda government accuse their Misurata-Tripoli rivals of collaborating with Islamist terrorists like Al Qaeda and the Islamic State, also known as ISIS or ISIL.

But while they recognize the Tobruk-Bayda government as legitimate, the United States, Britain and other Western powers have given it only qualified support.

They recognize it as legitimate because it includes a Parliament elected last year (although only a slight majority of its members continue to meet there), but they are wary because it is aligned with an unpredictable military commander, Gen. Khalifa Hifter. Last year he promised to purge Libya of both moderate and extremist Islamists, and he now appears to dominate the Tobruk-Bayda government.

Instead of backing General Hifter and the Tobruk-Bayda government, the Western powers and the United Nations have sought to broker the formation of a single unity government that could reconcile the moderates from each side.
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So basically, the slightly recognized leadership in Libya wants to take control of their resources and get rid of the Islamists, yet that seems to be going against the goals and ambitions of Western powers...
 
#66
#66
volinbham said:
I'd say we need more answers - did you read the article at all? Not a good situation - particular the training camp we abandoned. A few guns here and there I understand but losing dozens of armored vehicles definitely requires some answers.

Just shows once again that there are always follow on consequences to "limited military strikes"
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Well since Obama's Benghazi trading post got shut down he's got to deliver weapons to the jihadists some how.
 
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#67
#67
volinbham said:
I'd say we need more answers - did you read the article at all? Not a good situation - particular the training camp we abandoned. A few guns here and there I understand but losing dozens of armored vehicles definitely requires some answers.

Just shows once again that there are always follow on consequences to "limited military strikes"
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We seem to be abandoning lots of equipment, all over the Middle East, for terrorists to pick up lately.
 
#72
#72
Rasputin_Vol said:
And we still wonder how ISIS could have gotten so well armed...

When the general public finally realizes that the entire Benghazi conspiracy centers around a weapons network that ran from Libya to Turkey and into Syria, maybe this will get people to realize that we have been arming our "enemies", and I use that term loosely.
Click to expand...

Mainstream Media "Outraged!" That US Missiles Are In "Unknown" Libyan Rebel Hands

The New York Times is outraged, just outraged! — that US anti-tank missiles have been found in "unknown"Libyan rebel hands. Of course, when tons of American military hardware was covertly sent to al-Qaeda linked "rebels" fighting to topple Muammar Gaddafi in 2011, and when those same weapons were later transferred to the anti-Assad insurgency in Syria, many of them no doubt used by ISIS and al-Nusra Front, the mainstream media didn't find much to complain about. But now the "scandal" is being uncovered in 2019?

Currently, it's the UN-backed government in Tripoli which finds itself on the receiving end of deadly accurate high-tech US-made weapons systems, according to the Times:

Libyan government fighters discovered a cache of powerful American missiles, usually sold only to close American allies, at a captured rebel base in the mountains south of Tripoli this week.
The four Javelin anti-tank missiles, which cost more than $170,000 each, had ended up bolstering the arsenal of Gen. Khalifa Hifter, whose forces are waging a military campaign to take over Libya and overthrow a government the United States supports.​
Markings on the missiles’ shipping containers indicate that they were originally sold to the United Arab Emirates, an important American partner, in 2008.

 
#73
#73
Turkey deploys troops to bolster Libyan government

"Our soldiers' duty there is co-ordination. They will develop the operation centre there. Our soldiers are gradually going right now," President Erdogan told the CNN Turk TV channel.
He said Turkey's objective was "not to fight" but "to support the legitimate government and avoid a humanitarian tragedy".
 
#74
#74
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