Michael Dyer - now Louisville bound (merged)

What's your opinion of the possibility that Dyer is a Vol?

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#1,026
#1,026
His second chance may be best without the notion of fame or a big money contract. Sometimes kicking a boy out of the house makes him a better person because he is forced to become a man and face his consequences. That doesn't mean in a year you see the change but moreso in 5-10 years. Spoon feeding this kid opportunities is like letting your kid back in the house. In short it's called tough love.

I wish the kid well but I would rather see him become a better person outside of Tennessee.
 
#1,027
#1,027
SolidRockGolf said:
His second chance may be best without the notion of fame or a big money contract. Sometimes kicking a boy out of the house makes him a better person because he is forced to become a man and face his consequences. That doesn't mean in a year you see the change but moreso in 5-10 years. Spoon feeding this kid opportunities is like letting your kid back in the house. In short it's called tough love.

I wish the kid well but I would rather see him become a better person outside of Tennessee.
Click to expand...

See my edit above and hopefully you'll see how out of control AU was and I didn't even mention Cam Newton.
 
#1,029
#1,029
PrattvilleVol said:
LV...I like most of your posts but I don't agree with your position on this kid. While some kids don't make stupid decisions in their late teens/early 20's., many do....and many recover to become educated, productive citizens. Aside from myself, Judge Greg Mathis is a perfect example of someone that made stupid decisions as a young man and made the decision to make something out of himself. "All those drugs" you exaggerate are in fact pot and spice of which you can buy in any convenience store. A TE, I think his name was Evans, estimated 70% of AU players smoked spice. That doesnt justify the use, it illustrates the rampant use and he was the one that got caught. The major fact nobody is seeing is he grew up in a bad part of Little Rock and had never been in trouble until AU. I dont believe in throw away kids. Would you punt your own child if he screwed up more than once? Probably not.

This kid is a proven top SEC caliber RB. AU failed to provide the structure, accountability, and discipline to develop this young man and transition him into being a responsible, productive citizen. With 2 players dead, 4 in prison for felony burglary and the demise of a top SEC RB...it's not hard to see a glaring lack of player development and institutional control at AU.
Click to expand...

You are right, it was Auburn's fault not his. He was the victim in this whole mess.

J/k. Hard pass. Are you all just looking for trouble? The risk is not worth the reward. I think with Neal, Lane, and Hill, combined with our line, we will be fine. Dyer is NOT worth the trouble he brings. Maybe you take a chance if you can afford it, but I don't think we can.
 
#1,030
#1,030
The real question, and the question that should be asked by those of you championing he get a second chance, is would you feel the same if he were a very average talent who hadn't broken Bo Jackson's freshman rushing records? If this were Tom Smith, would you feel as passionately about his bid for redemption?

Having said that, I agree with what revJayP said, and I believe his real second chance began after he was stripped of every opportunity, forced to make some hard choices, and was afforded a mentor who held him accountable for his poor decisions in life. Up to that point, he had just been passed around and subsequently cut loose for the benefit of Auburn, or Arkansas State, to allow them to save face. Turning your back on a troubled kid is different than helping him realize the consequences of his actions and poor decisions and helping to steer himself away from bad choices and influences. Now that someone has helped him in a real way (not just spoonfeed him another opportunity to screw up like Malzahn did at ASU), I think he deserves his FINAL chance to prove that his misguided youthful choices were just that. Someone is going to give this young man another chance, and I feel a lot more comfortable about someone taking him on who appears to genuinely care for his players like Butch Jones does.
 
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#1,031
#1,031
PrattvilleVol said:
LV...I like most of your posts but I don't agree with your position on this kid. While some kids don't make stupid decisions in their late teens/early 20's., many do....and many recover to become educated, productive citizens. Aside from myself, Judge Greg Mathis is a perfect example of someone that made stupid decisions as a young man and made the decision to make something out of himself. "All those drugs" you exaggerate are in fact pot and spice of which you can buy in any convenience store. A TE, I think his name was Evans, estimated 70% of AU players smoked spice. That doesnt justify the use, it illustrates the rampant use and he was the one that got caught. The major fact nobody is seeing is he grew up in a bad part of Little Rock and had never been in trouble until AU. I dont believe in throw away kids. Would you punt your own child if he screwed up more than once? Probably not.

This kid is a proven top SEC caliber RB. AU failed to provide the structure, accountability, and discipline to develop this young man and transition him into being a responsible, productive citizen. With 2 players dead, 4 in prison for felony burglary and the demise of a top SEC RB...it's not hard to see a glaring lack of player development and institutional control at AU.
Click to expand...

Ok, so you have tried to make excuses for his time at AU. What about his time at Arkansas State when he continued with the same issues? For every person who has turned their life around, there are 10 who fell flat on their face and never changed. Things have been quiet as far as major trouble on the hill since CBJ was hired. I'd prefer to keep it that way. If you go looking for problems, you will find them.
 
#1,032
#1,032
PrattvilleVol said:
All I can say is I got into similar trouble at his age (even younger) and finally got my life straightened out around 21 yrs. old thru a mentor. I now have my post grad degree, served as both enlisted and as an officer in the military and currently have a very sucessful career. People can and do change. I listened to a show on Sirius with his mentor at AB who is one of Coach Houston Nutt's old assistants. This man is the epitomy of character, accountability, and molding of young men. I was very impressed with him and his program.
Click to expand...

So you were allowed to enlist in the military with multiple felonies?
 
#1,033
#1,033
PrattvilleVol said:
LV...I like most of your posts but I don't agree with your position on this kid. While some kids don't make stupid decisions in their late teens/early 20's., many do....and many recover to become educated, productive citizens. Aside from myself, Judge Greg Mathis is a perfect example of someone that made stupid decisions as a young man and made the decision to make something out of himself. "All those drugs" you exaggerate are in fact pot and spice of which you can buy in any convenience store. A TE, I think his name was Evans, estimated 70% of AU players smoked spice. That doesnt justify the use, it illustrates the rampant use and he was the one that got caught. The major fact nobody is seeing is he grew up in a bad part of Little Rock and had never been in trouble until AU. I dont believe in throw away kids. Would you punt your own child if he screwed up more than once? Probably not.

This kid is a proven top SEC caliber RB. AU failed to provide the structure, accountability, and discipline to develop this young man and transition him into being a responsible, productive citizen. With 2 players dead, 4 in prison for felony burglary and the demise of a top SEC RB...it's not hard to see a glaring lack of player development and institutional control at AU.
Click to expand...

Agree with this post. I still don't think TN should take a chance on this man. He could be a devastating disease. Let someone else stick their neck out...
 
#1,035
#1,035
PrattvilleVol said:
LV...I like most of your posts but I don't agree with your position on this kid. While some kids don't make stupid decisions in their late teens/early 20's., many do....and many recover to become educated, productive citizens. Aside from myself, Judge Greg Mathis is a perfect example of someone that made stupid decisions as a young man and made the decision to make something out of himself. "All those drugs" you exaggerate are in fact pot and spice of which you can buy in any convenience store. A TE, I think his name was Evans, estimated 70% of AU players smoked spice. That doesnt justify the use, it illustrates the rampant use and he was the one that got caught. The major fact nobody is seeing is he grew up in a bad part of Little Rock and had never been in trouble until AU. I dont believe in throw away kids. Would you punt your own child if he screwed up more than once? Probably not.

This kid is a proven top SEC caliber RB. AU failed to provide the structure, accountability, and discipline to develop this young man and transition him into being a responsible, productive citizen. With 2 players dead, 4 in prison for felony burglary and the demise of a top SEC RB...it's not hard to see a glaring lack of player development and institutional control at AU.
Click to expand...

I agree with most of your statement, though I went through college (4 years in a fraternity) and high school without ever taking one drug or even drinking alcohol for that matter. But those reasons were because I held myself responsible for my actions.

I don't think it's fair to blame Auburn for a lack of institutional control. The blame is squarely on Dyer's shoulders. I say that sympathetically.

"We are taught you must blame your father, your sisters, your brothers, the school, the teachers - but never blame yourself. It's never your fault. But it's always your fault, because if you wanted to change you're the one who has got to change." - Katherine Hepburn
 
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#1,036
#1,036
JAEvans24 said:
I agree with most of your statement, though I went through college (4 years in a fraternity) and high school without ever taking one drug or even drinking alcohol for that matter. But those reasons were because I held myself responsible for my actions.

I don't think it's fair to blame Auburn for a lack of institutional control. The blame is squarely on Dyer's shoulders. I say that sympathetically.

"We are taught you must blame your father, your sisters, your brothers, the school, the teachers - but never blame yourself. It's never your fault. But it's always your fault, because if you wanted to change you're the one who has got to change." - Katherine Hepburn
Click to expand...

I think it's somewhat disingenuous to absolve Chizik, his coaching staff, and the environment they fostered of any and all blame in this case, and I say that with several other examples to point to independent of Dyer. He was not an isolated individual in an otherwise happy kingdom on the Plains.

That said, you are right. Dyer needs to take responsibility for his actions, which he and those supervising over him the past year, feel he has finally done. The only proof of that will be what he does with his next opportunity, wherever that is.
 
#1,037
#1,037
JAEvans24 said:
I agree with most of your statement, though I went through college (4 years in a fraternity) and high school without ever taking one drug or even drinking alcohol for that matter. But those reasons were because I held myself responsible for my actions.

I don't think it's fair to blame Auburn for a lack of institutional control. The blame is squarely on Dyer's shoulders. I say that sympathetically.

"We are taught you must blame your father, your sisters, your brothers, the school, the teachers - but never blame yourself. It's never your fault. But it's always your fault, because if you wanted to change you're the one who has got to change." - Katherine Hepburn
Click to expand...

And I am sure you were not brought up as a child in the same environment as Dyer. Give me a break. Unfortunately, Dyer did not have the same support as many kids including yourself more than likely. Blaming someone "squarely" for their life choices at 19 is naive. He does bear responsibility for his actions, but I see a deeper problem with him and the decisions he has made. Being said, I would probably have to pass on him. Another change of environment will likely not stop his actions. He needs counseling and someone to step up as a "father to him."- maybe Butch??????
 
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#1,039
#1,039
jkleno said:
And I am sure you were not brought up as a child in the same environment as Dyer. Give me a break. Unfortunately, Dyer did not have the same support as many kids including yourself more than likely. Blaming someone "squarely" for their life choices at 19 is naive. He does bear responsibility for his actions, but I see a deeper problem with him and the decisions he has made. Being said, I would probably have to pass on him. Another change of environment will likely not stop his actions. He needs counseling and someone to step up as a "father to him."- maybe Butch??????
Click to expand...

I'm white yes. I lived in a trailer park the first five years of my life and never met my father. I'm not trying to score points because people have had it worse, but my life wasn't picturesque. Like I stated, I'm not attacking Dyer, but part of manhood is making decisions that lead you nto the right direction.
 
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#1,040
#1,040
cncchris33 said:
I think it's somewhat disingenuous to absolve Chizik, his coaching staff, and the environment they fostered of any and all blame in this case, and I say that with several other examples to point to independent of Dyer. He was not an isolated individual in an otherwise happy kingdom on the Plains.

That said, you are right. Dyer needs to take responsibility for his actions, which he and those supervising over him the past year, feel he has finally done. The only proof of that will be what he does with his next opportunity, wherever that is.
Click to expand...

Fair point, I believe that some have tougher roads in life, but opportunities exist. Dyer had an opportunity not many young men did at Auburn U. I hope he gets a second chance and is able to turn his life around for him and his future progeny.
 
#1,041
#1,041
Dyer has talent but there is no way of knowing if he would be the same guy he was a few years ago. He has not had the same S&C program and certainly hasn't been in a big game situation. I think you roll with the talent you have and wish him the best of luck. Lot's of differing opinions on this though so it will be interesting to see where he lands. I do hope he can straighten his life out because he does have a lot of God given talent that should be better utilized.
 
#1,042
#1,042
cncchris33 said:
The real question, and the question that should be asked by those of you championing he get a second chance, is would you feel the same if he were a very average talent who hadn't broken Bo Jackson's freshman rushing records? If this were Tom Smith, would you feel as passionately about his bid for redemption?

Having said that, I agree with what revJayP said, and I believe his real second chance began after he was stripped of every opportunity, forced to make some hard choices, and was afforded a mentor who held him accountable for his poor decisions in life. Up to that point, he had just been passed around and subsequently cut loose for the benefit of Auburn, or Arkansas State, to allow them to save face. Turning your back on a troubled kid is different than helping him realize the consequences of his actions and poor decisions and helping to steer himself away from bad choices and influences. Now that someone has helped him in a real way (not just spoonfeed him another opportunity to screw up like Malzahn did at ASU), I think he deserves his FINAL chance to prove that his misguided youthful choices were just that. Someone is going to give this young man another chance, and I feel a lot more comfortable about someone taking him on who appears to genuinely care for his players like Butch Jones does.
Click to expand...

I agree with the first part, pretty sure as fans we're defending this guy because the talent he has, or used to have. If you had a business, would you all hire this guy? How many chances are you gonna give this guy to play football just because he could help the team that you're a huge fan of win? He's a grown man and can make decisions for himself, the environment excuse can only be used for so long. I'm not saying that he should be cast off to the side as an outcast, but he's blown his chance to play this game. He's gonna have an opportunity to go to college and still lead a productive life, which is better than most people. He should be happy he's not in jail, or worse.
 
#1,043
#1,043
JAEvans24 said:
I'm white yes. I lived in a trailer park the first five years of my life and never met my father. I'm not trying to score points because people have had it worse, but my life wasn't picturesque. Like I stated, I'm not attacking Dyer, but part of manhood is making decisions that lead you nto the right direction.
Click to expand...

I think everybody is missing that Dyer was never, ever in any kind of trouble until he got to AU. Of course everyone is responsible for their actions and should be held accountable for those actions. AU however has a responsibility as well to teach young men that come from having very little in life that are suddenly the attention of 50 million people with ungodly expectations placed on them at 18 years old. Dyer was only one of several at AU that were either dismissed, facing prison, and two were shot dead. I believe Chizik is a good man but I also believe the program as a whole did not have control or a system in place to help transition these kids from being nobody's to superstars. Hollywood is a prime example of no support structure whatsoever for actors and performers. Most of them after attaining fame and fortune end up broke and/or dead because they don't know how to handle it. Montieth just ODd last week. The Hollywood list of crash and burn performers is endless. Elvis, Monroe, Cobain, Lohan, Caulkin....on and on forever with that list.
 
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#1,044
#1,044
After Dyer racks up 1000-1,200 yards this year with 20 touchdowns, all while keeping his nose clean, there will be a whole lot of bumping in this thread.
 
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#1,045
#1,045
I'm not saying there isn't redemption for Dyer. I'm saying it isn't fair to only blame the coaching staff. It's not even really about Dyer, as a young man, but rather a general statement. Dyer had an opportunity to receive a degree from a prominent institution and possibly get drafted. And he still may.

Pratt, your point is understood and I agree. I'm just not buying the argument that the odds were stacked against him argument. There are men who work in the coal mines or a hot factory for 40 years just to feed their family and have some sort of life. What do you think they would do with such an opportunity.

I hope the absolute best for him and if he is in orange than I will be supporting him just the same. Not just as a Volunteer, but a human being.

I have to run to a meeting, but will follow his possible arrival closely. Good day men.

-GBO
 
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#1,046
#1,046
To add some perspective...one of our highly recruited prospects from the 14 class left foundation week with no Tennessee gear whatsoever, obviously because he did not have the money. Next year this same kid will be swarmed on Vol Walk and running thru the power T on ESPN in front of millions of people...and today he can't afford a t-shirt. That is a huge, sudden shift in life at any age, much less a teenager.
 
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#1,047
#1,047
PrattvilleVol said:
To add some perspective...one of our highly recruited prospects from the 14 class left foundation week with no Tennessee gear whatsoever, obviously because he did not have the money. Next year this same kid will be swarmed on Vol Walk and running thru the power T on ESPN in front of millions of people...and today he can't afford a t-shirt. That is a huge, sudden shift in life at any age, much less a teenager.
Click to expand...

5* post my friend. :good!:
 
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