Michael Sam, Missouri DE, Is Gay

[utvolpj]

The bible says you must deny yourself. When sin entered though Adam and Eve there was the need for a savior. The bible says our spirit man is constantly at war with the flesh so denying ones self is not lying which leads to eternity in hell.

I'm sorry but that's ridiculous. As long as you're lying to yourself you're good to go? Just deny all the feelings given to you and you're in?

 

[jordan4vols]

I have an honest question. How do we know things from the Bible weren't lost in translation? Misunderstood? Changed? Made up by the author? Edited? Doesn't mean I don't believe in God, or trust God, or that I don't know I'm a sinner. Just means some things don't make sense, especially if you consider God to be a merciful God and consider Him to be a fairly smart dude.

You can't tell a person a story today, have them relay it to somebody else tomorrow, and have 100% accuracy, much less the history of the world translated over 1000's of years.

By the way, saw a preview of the movie, Son of God, the other day. Looks like it could be a great one. Noah is also coming out and looks great as well. Appears to be a modern spin of the old stories.

I would have to say faith when the Bible says all scripture is "God breathed." There is no denying though that there were other letters from apostles etc that were excluded from canonization. To really understand correct translation you would have to study it in Hebrew (OT) and Aramaic and Greek (NT).

 

[ABQduck]

So would you be the same since you don't accept members of a religious group?

Sure. I'm against any organized religion that discriminates. Christianity, Islam, Scientology. The point is you can't claim a religious trump card cuz your religion precludes you from liking a particular group of people based on their sexuality.

 

[jordan4vols]

I'm sorry but that's ridiculous. As long as you're lying to yourself you're good to go? Just deny all the feelings given to you and you're in?

Scripture says in Matthew 16:24 Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me." Translates out a little more clearly denying ones fleshly or sinful desires to follow Christ.

 

[bamawriter]

The bible says you must deny yourself. When sin entered though Adam and Eve there was the need for a savior. The bible says our spirit man is constantly at war with the flesh so denying ones self is not lying which leads to eternity in hell. It is denying the sin that has entered in. (Let me know if I did not explain clearly and will try to elaborate. Sorry on mobile)

In Matthew 12, Jesus states that the only sin that cannot be forgiven is rejecting the Holy Spirit. Being gay is as forgiveable as any other sin short of unbelief.

 

[jordan4vols]

Sure. I'm against any organized religion that discriminates. Christianity, Islam, Scientology. The point is you can't claim a religious trump card cuz your religion precludes you from liking a particular group of people based on their sexuality.

Did I ever say that I didn't like a group of people? If you yourself our living a life of drugs and alcohol for instance I would disagree with that lifestyle the same as a homosexual one. Doesn't mean that I don't like you. I haven't in anything I wrote said that I don't like someone.

 

[SDV]

Did I ever say that I didn't like a group of people? If you yourself our living a life of drugs and alcohol for instance I would disagree with that lifestyle the same as a homosexual one. Doesn't mean that I don't like you. I haven't in anything I wrote said that I don't like someone.

This is what he continues to miss

 

[utvolpj]

Scripture says in Matthew 16:24 Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me." Translates out a little more clearly denying ones fleshly or sinful desires to follow Christ.

or that a person must deny their true self to follow him. What's the point then? Of course the heterosexual man can get around those pesky "fleshly or sinful desires" through marriage but that's not an option offered to a homosexual

 

[ABQduck]

In Matthew 12, Jesus states that the only sin that cannot be forgiven is rejecting the Holy Spirit. Being gay is as forgiveable as any other sin short of unbelief.

Genesis 16:8 And he said “Hagar, Sarai’s slave girl, where have you come from and where are you going?” She answered, “I’m running away from Sarai, my mistress.” The angel of the Lord said to her, “Go back to your mistress and submit to ill treatment at her hands.

 

[bamawriter]

Genesis 16:8 And he said “Hagar, Sarai’s slave girl, where have you come from and where are you going?” She answered, “I’m running away from Sarai, my mistress.” The angel of the Lord said to her, “Go back to your mistress and submit to ill treatment at her hands.

I have no clue why you directed this to me.

 

[VolsSportsFan]

I have no clue why you directed this to me.

I think he may have meant to quote when another said God didn't condone bad treatment.

Or I may have no idea what he meant.

 

[ABQduck]

I have no clue why you directed this to me.

If we're going to quote the bible as a source of justification let's show it all. Warts and all.

"I permit no woman to teach or have authority over men; she is to keep silent." Timothy 2:11

Some book of ethics you have there.

 

[FLVOL_79]

This whole thing is called "attention whoring". It's 2014..no one cares (or should) if someone is gay. If anything it comes off as an attempt to increase draft stock or prepare scapegoat after failure.

 

[jordan4vols]

If we're going to quote the bible as a source of justification let's show it all. Warts and all.

"I permit no woman to teach or have authority over men; she is to keep silent." Timothy 2:11

Not to give you a full greek breakdown but Paul is referencing women asking questions and disrupting the "services" at the time. He set up Phyllis and others as church leaders in Romans etc so it is clear he had no problem with women as leaders in the church.

 

[bamawriter]

If we're going to quote the bible as a source of justification let's show it all. Warts and all.

"I permit no woman to teach or have authority over men; she is to keep silent." Timothy 2:11

Some book of ethics you have there.

What was I justifying? I was responding to the idea that being gay automatically keeps you out of heaven. Jesus himself said no such thing. Quite the opposite: unbelief keeps you out; all other sin can be forgiven.

I'm not sure what your point is here.

 

[gcbvol]

I have an honest question. How do we know things from the Bible weren't lost in translation? Misunderstood? Changed? Made up by the author? Edited? Doesn't mean I don't believe in God, or trust God, or that I don't know I'm a sinner. Just means some things don't make sense, especially if you consider God to be a merciful God and consider Him to be a fairly smart dude.

You can't tell a person a story today, have them relay it to somebody else tomorrow, and have 100% accuracy, much less the history of the world translated over 1000's of years.

By the way, saw a preview of the movie, Son of God, the other day. Looks like it could be a great one. Noah is also coming out and looks great as well. Appears to be a modern spin of the old stories.

This is a great point, imo. I believe there are 6-7 verses that deal with homosexuality, and 3 in the NT. I've read articles that delve into these scriptures and break down the root words and situational aspects. It certainly makes anyone with an open mind at least think about it.

I'm not saying that the NT does not condemn all homosexuality, but it is not necessarily a forgone conclusion that it does.

 

[ABQduck]

Not to give you a full greek breakdown but Paul is referencing women asking questions and disrupting the "services" at the time. He set up Phyllis and others as church leaders in Romans etc so it is clear he had no problem with women as leaders in the church.

Sheesh.

Next to murder slavery has to be the most horrific thing one human can do to another.

"However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way." (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

Of course I took that out of context so justify away...

 

[VolsSportsFan]

This whole thing is called "attention whoring". It's 2014..no one cares (or should) if someone is gay. If anything it comes off as an attempt to increase draft stock or prepare scapegoat after failure.

I don't know how you can say no one cares, especially after reading this thread.

 

[oregonvol]

Why didn't the bible figure out slavery was wrong till the 19th century. Or that women and minorities should have equal rights till the 20th century? Some book of ethics you have there.

The bible has done more throughout history to give rights to the weak and oppressed than any atheist document you can point to. Where do you think principles of equality and rights for all come from? Nature? Science? Darwin's "survival of the fittest"?

I mean, I guess you're right, in atheist societies everyone just sits in a circle and holds hands, right? That's what Soviet Russia was like, right? And Mao's China? Tell me some more fairy tales.

 

[ABQduck]

The bible has done more throughout history to give rights to the weak and oppressed than any atheist document you can point to. Where do you think principles of equality and rights for all come from? Nature? Science? Darwin's "survival of the fittest"?

I mean, I guess you're right, in atheist societies everyone just sits in a circle and holds hands, right? That's what Soviet Russia was like, right? And Mao's China? Tell me some more fairy tales.

The most asinine post yet. Then why the nearly 2000 year wait till slavery was abolished? Appeals? There's altruistic reasons we should be kind to one another. To claim our morality comes solely from the bible is completely ignorant.

Nothing more ridiculous than taking morality lessons from a book written (thru redactors mind you) over 2000 years ago. Every 100 years or so a society determines new ethics (slavery, women's rights, minority rights, gender rights). Sorry but the bible did not get it right the first time.

 

[jordan4vols]

Sheesh.

Next to murder slavery has to be the most horrific thing one human can do to another.

"However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way." (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

Of course I took that out of context so justify away...

I have already stated that the OT law was done away with when Christ came to fulfill said law. However to deal with the scripture that you are referencing I will answer in the following:

1) Slavery was not like you imagine it to be in the western 1700s. These were usually practices for the gaining of property etc and voluntary.

2) Leviticus also in verse 25 strictly gives instruction on not mistreating the slave.

3) According to that law if a slave owner beat a slave then the slave owner could be killed.

4) The selling of Children effectively reads out more like an adoption under the Hebrew

5) Involuntary slavery was punishable by death in the OT

 

[ABQduck]

I have already stated that the OT law was done away with when Christ came to fulfill said law. However to deal with the scripture that you are referencing I will answer in the following:

1) Slavery was not like you imagine it to be in the western 1700s. These were usually practices for the gaining of property etc and voluntary.

2) Leviticus also in verse 25 strictly gives instruction on not mistreating the slave.

3) According to that law if a slave owner beat a slave then the slave owner could be killed.

4) The selling of Children effectively reads out more like an adoption under the Hebrew

5) Involuntary slavery was punishable by death in the OT

Dont mistreat the slave. How kind. And how rich.

 

[jordan4vols]

Dont mistreat the slave. How kind. And how rich.

You have completed ignored the rest.

There is no biblical justification for the slavery that took place in America. It simply doesn't exist. The Hebrew Mosaic law used a term that meant servitude. The actual only lifelong "slave" was one that voluntarily accepted the position. Otherwise it was 6 years and freed on the 7th. The servant would sell themselves out to be provided with clothing, food, etc most of the time for them and their entire family. The same Levitical law that you referenced says that if one is kidnapped and sold to slavery the kidnapper is punished by death. A runaway slave from Babylon could receive exile and safety by selling themselves to an Israelite.

 

[ABQduck]

You have completed ignored the rest.

There is no biblical justification for the slavery that took place in America. It simply doesn't exist. The Hebrew Mosaic law used a term that meant servitude. The actual only lifelong "slave" was one that voluntarily accepted the position. Otherwise it was 6 years and freed on the 7th. The servant would sell themselves out to be provided with clothing, food, etc most of the time for them and their entire family. The same Levitical law that you referenced says that if one is kidnapped and sold to slavery the kidnapper is punished by death. A runaway slave from Babylon could receive exile and safety by selling themselves to an Israelite.

I do appreciate your zealousness but you're grasping at straws.

I apologize for getting carried away on this thread. I take it personal. Back to football...

 

[Lawrence Wright]

You have completed ignored the rest.

There is no biblical justification for the slavery that took place in America. It simply doesn't exist. The Hebrew Mosaic law used a term that meant servitude. The actual only lifelong "slave" was one that voluntarily accepted the position. Otherwise it was 6 years and freed on the 7th. The servant would sell themselves out to be provided with clothing, food, etc most of the time for them and their entire family. The same Levitical law that you referenced says that if one is kidnapped and sold to slavery the kidnapper is punished by death. A runaway slave from Babylon could receive exile and safety by selling themselves to an Israelite.

Pimpin' ain't easy.