Migration Nightmares Hitting Europe

#126
#126
BearCat204 said:
Like I said, no common sense.
Click to expand...

So, Joe brutally rapes Jane who has declared she doesn't want to have sex with Joe. Joe rips her clothes off in the process.

Jack brutally rapes Jill who has declared she doesn't want to have sex with Jack. Jill is already nude.

Both Joe and Jack are arrested and all the evidence which clearly shows rape in both cases is available.

Do you charge and sentence these two differently?

The honest answer is 'no'.

Thanks for playing. The problem is the rapist, not the naked woman.
 
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#128
#128
therealUT said:
So, Joe brutally rapes Jane who has declared she doesn't want to have sex with Joe. Joe rips her clothes off in the process.

Jack brutally rapes Jill who has declared she doesn't want to have sex with Jack. Jill is already nude.

Both Joe and Jack are arrested and all the evidence which clearly shows rape in both cases is available.

Do you charge and sentence these two differently?

The honest answer is 'no'.

Thanks for playing. The problem is the rapist, not the naked woman.
Click to expand...

Never said the problem wasnt the rapist you dumb beaver. I said that if you walked in a bad neighborhood naked, you share a little bit of the blame if you get raped. Again, common sense is your enemy, it's ok junior.
 
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#129
#129
BearCat204 said:
Never said the problem wasnt the rapist you dumb beaver. I said that if you walked in a bad neighborhood naked, you share a little bit of the blame if you get raped. Again, common sense is your enemy, it's ok junior.
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But, you don't share the blame. It's really that easy, as was demonstrated by the fact that no one in their right mind would charge and sentence the rapist Jack less than they would the rapist Joe.

I've discovered that when you use the term 'common sense' you really mean nothing more than 'upon no reflection at all'. Don't worry, that's about what I think about 'common sense' anyway: it's nothing more than the absolutely unreflective viewpoint that is imbibed by the majority of idiots.
 
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#130
#130
therealUT said:
Yes, the problem is the guy who robbed you. Glad you are finally catching on. It's basic ****, but I guess some are slow learners.
Click to expand...

Humans will be human so it's up to you to defend what's yours.

It's not I who is a slow learner prof. Until you can change human nature open boarders will always fail.
 
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#131
#131
therealUT said:
But, you don't share the blame. It's really that easy, as was demonstrated by the fact that no one in their right mind would charge and sentence the rapist Jack less than they would the rapist Joe.

I've discovered that when you use the term 'common sense' you really mean nothing more than 'upon no reflection at all'. Don't worry, that's about what I think about 'common sense' anyway: it's nothing more than the absolutely unreflective viewpoint that is imbibed by the majority of idiots.
Click to expand...
Again, it escapes you.
 
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#132
#132
hog88 said:
Humans will be human so it's up to you to defend what's yours.

It's not I who is a slow learner prof. Until you can change human nature open boarders will always fail.
Click to expand...

I'm willing to bet that you know very little about 'human nature' and psychology. 'Human nature' is, in opposition to the Hobbesian viewpoint, fundamentally a nature which is both empathic and averse to injuring other humans. Oh, wait, this is not just human nature, this is the nature of all species. That is, all species display an aversion to cause serious harm and injury to members of their own species (this is easily observed in the manner in which members of the same species fight each other and the manner in which they fight members of other species...the latter is incredibly vicious and aims at maiming and destroying their foe).

The fundamental problem of human nature is that many humans lack the self-confidence to do what they think is right and thus defer to authority. This is clearly displayed in studies and written about extensively by Hannah Arendt in the following three books: Eichmann in Jerusalem, The Origins of Totalitarianism, and The Human Condition.

But, I'm sure that you have read and studied a whole lot of human nature and that your beliefs are not merely the result of your extremely limited experiences around persons that find themselves already very subjected to a system of authority and deprived of most of their liberties.
 
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#135
#135
Haven't read every post in this thread so I'm not sure if this has been discussed - but this is playing out just like it will 50-75 years from now when global warming causes water levels to rise and heat-waves become unbearable in countries near the equator.

We're just going to have more tension like this - not less.
 
#136
#136
Kingston Vol said:
Haven't read every post in this thread so I'm not sure if this has been discussed - but this is playing out just like it will 50-75 years from now when global warming causes water levels to rise and heat-waves become unbearable in countries near the equator.

We're just going to have more tension like this - not less.
Click to expand...

“Many scientists are now warning that we are moving closer to several tipping points that could — within as little as 10 years — make it impossible for us to avoid irretrievable damage to the planet’s habitability for human civilization,” Gore said in a speech at NYU Law School in 2006.

When the timeline fails, it's best to keep pushing it farther out.
 
#137
#137
BearCat204 said:
Again, you are missing the point.....shocking.
Click to expand...

The point is quite clear and it is as follows: walking around naked or walking around with money hanging out of your pockets is in no way wrong and thus in no way either blameworthy or problematic. What is wrong and problematic is that there exist some persons who do inflict harm and injury on other persons. It is those persons that are the problem, not the persons who are victimized.

That's ****ing simple.

Now, I understand your reluctance to accept this most obvious of all moral points, because if you accept it, then you have to provide a new rationalization for certain functions of the state that you happen to like. Tough ****.

However, since I know you will push back, because you do not want to give up this 'common sense' position, let's move away from rape victims and move to casualties in combat. Since it is quite clear that one who joins the Army is joining with the knowledge that the risk of them being killed by another person greatly increases in such a profession, then, according to your 'common sense' reasoning, let's assert that all the US soldiers that have been killed in Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Korea, Europe, the Pacific, etc. are both blameworthy and responsible for their own deaths.

And, sure, you only said "share some of the blame", but, to share some of the blame is still to be blameworthy and to share some of the responsibility is still to be responsible.
 
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#138
#138
therealUT said:
The point is quite clear and it is as follows: walking around naked or walking around with money hanging out of your pockets is in no way wrong and thus in no way either blameworthy or problematic. What is wrong and problematic is that there exist some persons who do inflict harm and injury on other persons. It is those persons that are the problem, not the persons who are victimized.

That's ****ing simple.

Now, I understand your reluctance to accept this most obvious of all moral points, because if you accept it, then you have to provide a new rationalization for certain functions of the state that you happen to like. Tough ****.

However, since I know you will push back, because you do not want to give up this 'common sense' position, let's move away from rape victims and move to casualties in combat. Since it is quite clear that one who joins the Army is joining with the knowledge that the risk of them being killed by another person greatly increases in such a profession, then, according to your 'common sense' reasoning, let's assert that all the US soldiers that have been killed in Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Korea, Europe, the Pacific, etc. are both blameworthy and responsible for their own deaths.

And, sure, you only said "share some of the blame", but, to share some of the blame is still to be blameworthy and to share some of the responsibility is still to be responsible.
Click to expand...
Never once did I say that the victims were the problem and you continue to try and you still keep trying to omit the word "partially or some".
 
#139
#139
theFallGuy said:
“Many scientists are now warning that we are moving closer to several tipping points that could — within as little as 10 years — make it impossible for us to avoid irretrievable damage to the planet’s habitability for human civilization,” Gore said in a speech at NYU Law School in 2006.

When the timeline fails, it's best to keep pushing it farther out.
Click to expand...

That's not entirely the same point, but continue.
 
#140
#140
BearCat204 said:
Never once did I say that the victims were the problem
Click to expand...

You say they are blameworthy. So, either they are blameworthy and are a problem, or they are not blameworthy and not a problem.

BearCat204 said:
and you continue to try and you still keep trying to omit the word "partially or some".
Click to expand...

Maybe next time read my entire post. I mentioned the BS gradation you are trying to use.

Let me spell it out for you, though:

If they share some of the blame, then they are worthy of some of the blame, hence, they are blameworthy.

If they share some of the responsibility, then they owe a response for their actions/behavior, hence, they are responsible.

Words are tough some time.
 
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#141
#141
therealUT said:
You say they are blameworthy. So, either they are blameworthy and are a problem, or they are not blameworthy and not a problem.



Maybe next time read my entire post. I mentioned the BS gradation you are trying to use.

Let me spell it out for you, though:

If they share some of the blame, then they are worthy of some of the blame, hence, they are blameworthy.

If they share some of the responsibility, then they owe a response for their actions/behavior, hence, they are responsible.

Words are tough some time.
Click to expand...
Ok guy, they are blameworthy and responsible.
 
#142
#142
therealUT said:
I'm willing to bet that you know very little about 'human nature' and psychology. 'Human nature' is, in opposition to the Hobbesian viewpoint, fundamentally a nature which is both empathic and averse to injuring other humans. Oh, wait, this is not just human nature, this is the nature of all species. That is, all species display an aversion to cause serious harm and injury to members of their own species (this is easily observed in the manner in which members of the same species fight each other and the manner in which they fight members of other species...the latter is incredibly vicious and aims at maiming and destroying their foe).

The fundamental problem of human nature is that many humans lack the self-confidence to do what they think is right and thus defer to authority. This is clearly displayed in studies and written about extensively by Hannah Arendt in the following three books: Eichmann in Jerusalem, The Origins of Totalitarianism, and The Human Condition.

But, I'm sure that you have read and studied a whole lot of human nature and that your beliefs are not merely the result of your extremely limited experiences around persons that find themselves already very subjected to a system of authority and deprived of most of their liberties.
Click to expand...

That in itself is human nature. Since man has been on earth we have been Waring, the strong have been taking from the weak and nothing has changed since.

Just name one civilization who allowed open and unfettered immigration/migration that wasn't destroyed by it.
 
#143
#143
hog88 said:
That in itself is human nature. Since man has been on earth we have been Waring, the strong have been taking from the weak and nothing has changed since.

Just name one civilization who allowed open and unfettered immigration/migration that wasn't destroyed by it.
Click to expand...

But those who were destroyed by it share no responsibility...................
 
#144
#144
What a mess. Big picture on this is that it should inflame nationalist sentiment in the EU, expose a flaw in the structure of the EU because of the lack of an ability to coordinate the distribution of the migrants, and as the citizens get more and more fed up with the immigrants, they will put pressure on their political leaders to get NATO more involved with Syria to try and restore order there -- at the same time Russia seems to have started some operations in Syria.
 
#146
#146
FLVOL69 said:
It's no theory Einstein, the folks who once worked those jobs have been replaced by lower income illegals. You think about that for awhile.
Click to expand...

It's called progress. Americans don't want those jobs for $9. Do you? Even college students won't work that job.
 
#149
#149
theFallGuy said:
I don't think most want to deny the American Dream to anyone but we have to have some kind of order to those entering the country. You can't just kick down the door and enter at your liesure then claim legal citizen status. It doesn't work that way anywhere else in the world.
Click to expand...

People that want current immigration law enforced are asking to deny millions the American dream. Current law will not allow them in legally.

If (rhetorical) you oppose reform then you do deny others the dream.
 
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