more covid discussion from the basketball thread

#76
#76
johnboyhunter said:
East Tennessee hospital system:
Ballad Health: 91% of those hospitalized with COVID-19 unvaccinated
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“With” is the key word. Being hospitalized WITH Covid is not the same as FOR Covid. This is how the numbers have been fudged from the beginning. Someone shot or in a car wreck who happens to have Covid isn’t hospitalized because of Covid but that’s how it gets reported.
 
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#78
#78
johnboyhunter said:
Ballad health just reported 91% of COVID hospitalizations were unvaccinated. So they are making that up? And every hospital in America with similar stats is also making it up? That’s one heck of a conspiracy theory right there that hundreds of thousands of healthcare workers and executives are just fudging the numbers and part of some scam. A scam that is putting 29% of hospitals in the red (canceling elective surgeries and tests/scans that are money makers) and having to spend more on staffing. Geez!
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There's nothing anyone can or should do about the unvaccinated. They are on their own by their own choice. If they end up in a hospital and/or die it's on them. Public policy should not be about protecting them from getting infected. That's up to them now.
 
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#79
#79
johnboyhunter said:
just look at stats usually published by your local hospital system in the paper. Pretty clear that being vaccinated reduces your rate ten fold of ending up in one of those hospitals.
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Being not obese, and somewhat in shape seems to be more effective than the vaccine. No one is telling people to get off there a$$es and eat healthier. Ever wonder why that is? Could it be the pharmaceutical industry wants to create customers, and not cures…
 
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#80
#80
TheMookieMonster said:
Sports cannot exist if our policies in 2021 (really 2022) exist in a March 2020 vacuum. Today’s decision by the CDC to reduce isolation periods is a fine first step, but there needs to be more done.

The sooner that we come to terms with the simple fact that this is now endemic, the better. You asked players to get vaccinated. They’re vaccinated. You told them if they’re vaccinated, they can play. Let them play. You can’t keep moving the goalposts, otherwise this will never end.

I’m not an epidemiologist, but it seems pretty clear to anyone with common sense that COVID cannot (and will not) be “defeated.” It’s out there. It will always be out there now. That’s just a fact.
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It’s evolved some. UT isn’t testing asymptomatic vaccinated players. Last year, they thought asymptomatic people were causing the spread when the recent NFL study has shown the opposite. I do agree that there has been enough time for people to get the vaccine and to play more games. My guess is if we have people out, then they have symptoms.
 
#81
#81
omghulkhands said:
I’m not really sure what you’re suggesting. That young healthy people only interact exclusively with other young healthy people?
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For the most part, yes. But those they interact with who aren't young and healthy know the risks of being unvaccinated. And if they are unvaccinated they should either remove themselves from being in contact with others who might be a threat or be willing to take the chance of infection. It's on them. n Shouldn't punish college basketball players for that.
 
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#82
#82
Switch 625 said:
“With” is the key word. Being hospitalized WITH Covid is not the same as FOR Covid. This is how the numbers have been fudged from the beginning. .
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If that were true, then mathematically, unvaccinated people are super unhealthy / doing really dangerous stuff then….

Cause like you said, if they are there “with” Covid instead of “for” Covid…then wouldn’t the number more accurately reflect typical Gen pop vaccination rates?

I’m afraid it doesn’t stand to reason and you should be highly skeptical of the people that have purported this idea to you about the way Covid is reported by hospitals
 
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#83
#83
jarnol32 said:
Being not obese, and somewhat in shape seems to be more effective than the vaccine. No one is telling people to get off there a$$es and eat healthier. Ever wonder why that is? Could it be the pharmaceutical industry wants to create customers, and not cures…
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Eh, there are programs promoting kids’ health in schools, and if you see a doctor once a year, they will certainly tell you the effects of living a healthy lifestyle.
 
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#84
#84
bleedingTNorange said:
How’s that the case when vaxxed folks are literally still getting COVID, which was the exact point of this thread? Getting the vaccine doesn’t seem to be stopping anything, or even slowing it.
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It stops hospitalizations and deaths, but it does not stop infections or transmissions to or from vaccinated people. And that means the vaccines, by themselves, will not end the pandemic. We will have to acquire herd immunity naturally.
 
#85
#85
youcancallmeAl said:
For the most part, yes. But those they interact with who aren't young and healthy know the risks of being unvaccinated. And if they are unvaccinated they should either remove themselves from being in contact with others who might be a threat or be willing to take the chance of infection. It's on them. n Shouldn't punish college basketball players for that.
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That’s where we are headed as a society. But unfortunately, hospitals are still overwhelmed due to the unvaccinated part of the population and the Hippocratic oath dictates those people deserve care too.

So until Enough people get vaccinated to reduce hospitals being overran, you’re likely gonna see protocols continue to exist
 
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#86
#86
omghulkhands said:
I don’t think this last 25% of the population or whatever will be swayed enough to get the shot, so we likely will enter a process of natural selection soon where no protocols exist anymore and if you die, it’s your own fault because vaccines are available (and free)
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We're already there and have been for a while. Those vaccinated will continue to get boosters and those unvaccinated and vaccinated will continue to get the disease, and some unvaccinated will be hospitalized and die. That is where we are right now, and there's nothing anyone can do about it until the therapeutics take effect and have the desired impact.
 
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#87
#87
omghulkhands said:
That’s where we are headed as a society. But unfortunately, hospitals are still overwhelmed due to the unvaccinated part of the population and the Hippocratic oath dictates those people deserve care too.

So until Enough people get vaccinated to reduce hospitals being overran, you’re likely gonna see protocols continue to exist
Click to expand...

Well, I don't think the best way to convince the unvaccinated to get inoculated is to continue to treat vaccinated people like we're still in the early stages of the pandemic. Right now, the roughly 25% of the unvaccinated probably have no intentions to get vaccinated, and that won't change if the "carrot on the stick" is largely the exact same restrictions.

It was originally said that the vaccine is the way to resuming normal life, and that clearly isn't happening so you're going to be hard pressed convincing that last quarter of Americans to do it unless big changes come.
 
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#89
#89
omghulkhands said:
But unfortunately, hospitals are still overwhelmed due to the unvaccinated part of the population and the Hippocratic oath dictates those people deserve care too.
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Of course they do. That's why therapeutics are so important. And I'm not so sure that hospitals are overwhelmed right now. The new variant is very mild.
 
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#91
#91
jarnol32 said:
Being not obese, and somewhat in shape seems to be more effective than the vaccine. No one is telling people to get off there a$$es and eat healthier. Ever wonder why that is? Could it be the pharmaceutical industry wants to create customers, and not cures…
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Nope. Plenty of data tells people to lose weight for better health and avoid diseases like cardiovascular issues and cancer.
 
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#92
#92
TheMookieMonster said:
Well, I don't think the best way to convince the unvaccinated to get inoculated is to continue to treat vaccinated people like we're still in the early stages of the pandemic. Right now, the roughly 25% of the unvaccinated probably have no intentions to get vaccinated, and that won't change if the "carrot on the stick" is largely the exact same restrictions.

It was originally said that the vaccine is the way to resuming normal life, and that clearly isn't happening so you're going to be hard pressed convincing that last quarter of Americans to do it unless big changes come.
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I’m not sure why you suggest this. UT isn’t testing asymptomatic vaccinated players while still testing unvaccinated players. In every day life, asymptomatic vaccinated people do not have to quarantine even if they come in contact with someone who has tested positive.

Some people just don’t care to pay attention to the recommendations, but there is a difference.
 
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#93
#93
jarnol32 said:
Being not obese, and somewhat in shape seems to be more effective than the vaccine. No one is telling people to get off there a$$es and eat healthier. Ever wonder why that is? Could it be the pharmaceutical industry wants to create customers, and not cures…
Click to expand...
I have had a 22 year career in medical devices and there is zero merit to some conspiracy that companies that produce life saving therapies wants to keep people unhealthy to sell more.
 
#95
#95
VolGee4 said:
I’m not sure why you suggest this. UT isn’t testing asymptomatic vaccinated players while still testing unvaccinated players. In every day life, asymptomatic vaccinated people do not have to quarantine even if they come in contact with someone who has tested positive.

Some people just don’t care to pay attention to the recommendations, but there is a difference.
Click to expand...

Both vaccinated and unvaccinated people can become infected and can also transmit the diesase to others. Being vaccinated makes no difference in whether you can become infected or infect others. That is reality, no matter what the arbitrarily established protocols are.
 
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#96
#96
VolGee4 said:
I’m not sure why you suggest this. UT isn’t testing asymptomatic vaccinated players while still testing unvaccinated players. In every day life, asymptomatic vaccinated people do not have to quarantine even if they come in contact with someone who has tested positive.

Some people just don’t care to pay attention to the recommendations, but there is a difference.
Click to expand...

I'm not specifically referring to Tennessee Basketball. I'm speaking more broadly about the unvaccinated and their perception of whether to get the vaccine or not get the vaccine. Tennessee might not be testing asymptomatic people, but Jeff Goodman today tweeted that he polled 125 programs and 42% of them still are testing all vaccinated individuals. And, that doesn't even mention the fact that different localities have different state and local recommendations that aren't in line with the CDC. I live in Washington D.C. and things here in some circumstances are more severe than CDC recommendations depending on where you work, and this is a highly vaccinated region.

My only point is that unvaccinated people see the uneven application of these restrictions and think to themselves "What's the point?"
 
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#97
#97
#98
#98
youcancallmeAl said:
Both vaccinated and unvaccinated people can become infected and can also transmit the diesase to others. Being vaccinated makes no difference in whether you can become infected or infect others. That is reality, no matter what the arbitrarily established protocols are.
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You must not have read what I wrote. Had nothing to do with what you said.

Has everything to do with what has changed since the beginning of the pandemic. Everyone was tested before the vaccine and even asymptomatic people were considered positives. We aren’t testing everyone like that anymore. I understand that vaccinated people can get it, but they are only being tested when they have symptoms. This is huge when trying to play games.
 
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