more covid discussion from the basketball thread

#126
#126
Volunteer Boy said:
They convinced doctors that addiction wouldn't be a problem.
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Yeah, like Chris said, sales are sales, but ultimately they have to convince doctors to prescribe it to be involved in their scheme. I will say most pharmaceutical companies that I’ve been involved with are just trying to find every single person that could possibly use their product right now (eg artificial tears) rather than trying to create more by spreading the disease somehow. They would rather convince the doctors that the problem exists and develop new ways to find the problem than try to convince the public overall (probably because it’s cheaper).

The problem with the opiate crisis from what I have seen was that it was actually true that they reduce pain and almost everyone has a little pain. To use an extreme example, pharmaceutical companies were not intentionally injuring people in car accidents to get extra sales, they were convincing doctors that all pain in car accidents needed opiates and symptoms from opiate overdose were treated with opiates. To relate it to the original poster I quoted’s example, Pfizer and Moderna are not actively spreading COVID, they just want to have the drug of choice for treating it.

And for the record, I refuse to prescribe opiates because I don’t want to have the chance of addiction and it’s rarely necessary with what I do.
 
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#127
#127
AngryButchJones said:
I'm so sick and tired of every damn thread in here turning into arguments and conspiracy theories and underhanded political comments all because of COVID.
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Unless you haven't noticed, the covid issue is the dominant and most important we will ever see. Whether to allow new tech intrusion (not a "vaccine") inside your body IS actually more important than anything we can discuss on here; especially since the sports we love are so affected.
 
#128
#128
Lankykong said:
Yeah, like Chris said, sales are sales, but ultimately they have to convince doctors to prescribe it to be involved in their scheme. I will say most pharmaceutical companies that I’ve been involved with are just trying to find every single person that could possibly use their product right now (eg artificial tears) rather than trying to create more by spreading the disease somehow. They would rather convince the doctors that the problem exists and develop new ways to find the problem than try to convince the public overall (probably because it’s cheaper).

The problem with the opiate crisis from what I have seen was that it was actually true that they reduce pain and almost everyone has a little pain. To use an extreme example, pharmaceutical companies were not intentionally injuring people in car accidents to get extra sales, they were convincing doctors that all pain in car accidents needed opiates and symptoms from opiate overdose were treated with opiates. To relate it to the original poster I quoted’s example, Pfizer and Moderna are not actively spreading COVID, they just want to have the drug of choice for treating it.

And for the record, I refuse to prescribe opiates because I don’t want to have the chance of addiction and it’s rarely necessary with what I do.
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With the incentives Purdue was offering doctors, and the lies they were spreading, it wasn't difficult to convince them to prescribe it.
 
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#130
#130
JohnWardForever said:
Unless you haven't noticed, the covid issue is the dominant and most important we will ever see. Whether to allow new tech intrusion (not a "vaccine") inside your body IS actually more important than anything we can discuss on here; especially since the sports we love are so affected.
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Then by all means discuss it on one of the many existing threads in the Pub or Political forums
 
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#132
#132
cncchris33 said:
Are you familiar with Purdue Pharma?
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I have worked for 4 different companies and each was completely ethical. It’s industry that comes out with the latest gadgets and equipment that continue to improve care. There are very very few bad actors in the industry and folks should be thankful for the research and innovation.
 
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#133
#133
walkenvol said:
I agree, but there are folks that will argue the government is manipulating the data. Read all the reasons antivaxxers won’t take the shot with some believing there’s a tracking device in the vaccine. Social media has empowered crazy in this country
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Totally agree about social media and politics unfortunately playing a role.

One would think that reason would win if folks realize there is two groups, A and B. Group A is 30-35% of the population but make up 91% of hospitalizations. Group B is 65-70% of population and only 9% of hospitalizations. Why people can’t see this is crazy to me and the data isn’t even coming directly from the government. It’s from their local hospitals where friends and family members are employed.

I know folks who rail against the vaccine but make poor health decisions like being overweight and not exercising and never getting a colonoscopy, seeing a dentist, seeing a dermatologist for check up and they are over 50.
 
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#134
#134
johnboyhunter said:
I have had a 22 year career in medical devices and there is zero merit to some conspiracy that companies that produce life saving therapies wants to keep people unhealthy to sell more.
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And just like that Biden announces 500 million test kits. We've been told up until Operation Warp Speed that it takes almost a decade for mass production, short term and long term data for safety and efficacy for drugs/vaccines to go from start to finish unless its an orphan disease. Covid/pharmaceutical companies showed that was a lie. I'm not trying to discredit or take away from your medical device career, but being in the medical sales side for 15 years myself those decisions are made way above our pay grade unless you're on R&D or influential shareholder.

Convenient in a time when pharmaceutical companies are left without the blockbuster portfolio they once had we are in this moment.
 
#135
#135
Majors said:
And just like that Biden announces 500 million test kits. We've been told up until Operation Warp Speed that it takes almost a decade for mass production, short term and long term data for safety and efficacy for drugs/vaccines to go from start to finish unless its an orphan disease. Covid/pharmaceutical companies showed that was a lie. I'm not trying to discredit or take away from your medical device career, but being in the medical sales side for 15 years myself those decisions are made way above our pay grade unless you're on R&D or influential shareholder.

Convenient in a time when pharmaceutical companies are left without the blockbuster portfolio they once had we are in this moment.
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Europe is way ahead of us on test kits. I have never worked in pharma. I have been on the device and equipment side of the business. I have been involved with many projects with hospitals working to open up new COVID capacity in a rush and also had numerous projects cancelled because hospitals had to divert money to tackle the pandemic. Overall lost more than gained since hospitals are having to pour in resources for other things and losing revenue.
 
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#136
#136
johnboyhunter said:
Totally agree about social media and politics unfortunately playing a role.

One would think that reason would win if folks realize there is two groups, A and B. Group A is 30-35% of the population but make up 91% of hospitalizations. Group B is 65-70% of population and only 9% of hospitalizations. Why people can’t see this is crazy to me and the data isn’t even coming directly from the government. It’s from their local hospitals where friends and family members are employed.

I know folks who rail against the vaccine but make poor health decisions like being overweight and not exercising and never getting a colonoscopy, seeing a dentist, seeing a dermatologist for check up and they are over 50.
Click to expand...

Do people over 50 need to see a dermatologist routinely? I've never heard of that if so.
 
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#139
#139
johnboyhunter said:
Europe is way ahead of us on test kits. I have never worked in pharma. I have been on the device and equipment side of the business. I have been involved with many projects with hospitals working to open up new COVID capacity in a rush and also had numerous projects cancelled because hospitals had to divert money to tackle the pandemic. Overall lost more than gained since hospitals are having to pour in resources for other things and losing revenue.
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Going back to the original stance "zero merit to some conspiracy that companies that produce life saving therapies wants to keep people unhealthy to sell more". You don't just find 500 million of anything, why not play that card early on to help slow down the spread?
 
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#140
#140
Lankykong said:
That has to do with how long the therapy has been out and the cost of development. Look at HIV drugs; they’re probably similarly expensive (or more) and I don’t think those companies are trying to get people to have HIV.
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The point is that invermectin as a therapeutic has been suppressed but as soon as a drug company developed a pill they can make money on it was approved without much data to support it's effectivemess. Look no further to the boards of drug companies and the people in the CDC and FDA to find a lot of the same people.
 
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#141
#141
FlintstoneGAVol said:
The point is that invermectin as a therapeutic has been suppressed but as soon as a drug company developed a pill they can make money on it was approved without much data to support it's effectivemess. Look no further to the boards of drug companies and the people in the CDC and FDA to find a lot of the same people.
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It’s a good puppy wormer anyway.
 
#143
#143
Majors said:
And just like that Biden announces 500 million test kits. We've been told up until Operation Warp Speed that it takes almost a decade for mass production, short term and long term data for safety and efficacy for drugs/vaccines to go from start to finish unless its an orphan disease. Covid/pharmaceutical companies showed that was a lie. I'm not trying to discredit or take away from your medical device career, but being in the medical sales side for 15 years myself those decisions are made way above our pay grade unless you're on R&D or influential shareholder.

Convenient in a time when pharmaceutical companies are left without the blockbuster portfolio they once had we are in this moment.
Click to expand...
Moderna was about to go bankrupt before Covid-19.
 
#144
#144
johnboyhunter said:
Totally agree about social media and politics unfortunately playing a role.

One would think that reason would win if folks realize there is two groups, A and B. Group A is 30-35% of the population but make up 91% of hospitalizations. Group B is 65-70% of population and only 9% of hospitalizations. Why people can’t see this is crazy to me and the data isn’t even coming directly from the government. It’s from their local hospitals where friends and family members are employed.

I know folks who rail against the vaccine but make poor health decisions like being overweight and not exercising and never getting a colonoscopy, seeing a dentist, seeing a dermatologist for check up and they are over 50.
Click to expand...
An example of data manipulation. If you have not been vaccinated when you are given a PCR test for covid it is run for forty cycles which yields a lot of false positives.
When you have been vaccinated and given a PCR test it is run for 28 cycles which yield a more truthful result.
 
#147
#147
youcancallmeAl said:
Thanks for the data. Doesn't look like covid has that much to do with the capacity issues that some hospitals seem to have.
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I work at one of the larger hospitals in the knox area and I can tell you that we have very few Covid patients right now. Doesn’t mean that’s the same for all hospitals. I can only speak for the one I work at.
 
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#148
#148
FlintstoneGAVol said:
An example of data manipulation. If you have not been vaccinated when you are given a PCR test for covid it is run for forty cycles which yields a lot of false positives.
When you have been vaccinated and given a PCR test it is run for 28 cycles which yield a more truthful result.
Click to expand...
You are like the sheriff of Conspiracyville.
 
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#149
#149
johnboyhunter said:
I have worked for 4 different companies and each was completely ethical. It’s industry that comes out with the latest gadgets and equipment that continue to improve care. There are very very few bad actors in the industry and folks should be thankful for the research and innovation.
Click to expand...
Fantastic, but this statement is patently false...
johnboyhunter said:
I have had a 22 year career in medical devices and there is zero merit to some conspiracy that companies that produce life saving therapies wants to keep people unhealthy to sell more.
Click to expand...
 
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#150
#150
FlintstoneGAVol said:
The point is that invermectin as a therapeutic has been suppressed but as soon as a drug company developed a pill they can make money on it was approved without much data to support it's effectivemess. Look no further to the boards of drug companies and the people in the CDC and FDA to find a lot of the same people.
Click to expand...
Pharmaceutical companies won’t bother spending time trying to get ivermectin approved to treat COVID because the medicine can be used off label, so then the FDA is in a weird position where they likely haven’t reviewed the data because there’s no data for them to review. Same thing is done with eye injections for bleeding in the eye; main treatment is offlabel and hasn’t been approved because the pharmaceutical company doesn’t want to bring it back for an approval when it’s already being used (there’s no financial benefit and FDA is super expensive to go for). The FDA doesn’t really advertise on that treatment being good either.

I think it’s more red tape stuff and financial incentives than something malicious, personally.
 
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