More Tatum angst

#26
#26
Something that's always bothered me about human beings is their need to put the blame on some one when things go wrong.
We need scape goats at work, in government and in sports.
Basketball is a team sport.
If you need a scape goat for the Alabama loss, put the blame where it belongs.
Alabama scored 19 points off of 17 turnovers. We lost by 12.
11 of those turnovers came from our best 2 players, Maymon and Golden. Tatum had one, skylar as usual had none.
Every turnover is a potential 4-6 point reversal in scoring.
You lose a possession and give one to your opponent.
Takeaway 11 turnovers and replace them with just a few points for those 11 possessions and you win the game.
Tatum's not the problem.

Very well said. You can point to every guy on the floor last night and name somewhere that they hurt us. Fact is, most of these guys just aren't that good, the best is a hs senior. You can only coach up these guys so much in less than a year, and IMO that's why you see the inconsistency this year.

Let's hope they get it together in time, but I look forward to next year with guys getting more time with ccm and him bringing in some of his own guys.
 
#27
#27
Well, this would be 2.5 bad years.

Statistically, he's having one of his better years. And really, he's been extremely consistent all 5 years here. Around 7 points, 3 rebounds, 3 assists. He's not a world beater, and he is in a huge shooting slump, but he isnt the problem.
 
#29
#29
Something that's always bothered me about human beings is their need to put the blame on some one when things go wrong.
We need scape goats at work, in government and in sports.
Basketball is a team sport.
If you need a scape goat for the Alabama loss, put the blame where it belongs.
Alabama scored 19 points off of 17 turnovers. We lost by 12.
11 of those turnovers came from our best 2 players, Maymon and Golden. Tatum had one, skylar as usual had none.
Every turnover is a potential 4-6 point reversal in scoring.
You lose a possession and give one to your opponent.
Takeaway 11 turnovers and replace them with just a few points for those 11 possessions and you win the game.
Tatum's not the problem.

Calban, you're a good poster, and I can appreciate the pacifist nature of your post. However, you have your head in the sand to not recognize Tatum is of no count right now. His offense is non-existent, his psyche is fragile if not damaged beyond repair, and his defense has suffered as a result. He is providing nothing more than he could provide from the bench in a reduced role.

Sure, there are other negatives we can point at from game to game, but his name is consistently in the negative column, and in most cases, rightfully so.

To say Tatum is not the problem is only half correct. He isn't the whole problem, but he is no part of the solution either. His body has failed him and his play has declined, but the mental errors are the most concerning from a fifth-year senior, captain, and leader.
 
#30
#30
Something that's always bothered me about human beings is their need to put the blame on some one when things go wrong.
We need scape goats at work, in government and in sports.
Basketball is a team sport.
If you need a scape goat for the Alabama loss, put the blame where it belongs.
Alabama scored 19 points off of 17 turnovers. We lost by 12.
11 of those turnovers came from our best 2 players, Maymon and Golden. Tatum had one, skylar as usual had none.
Every turnover is a potential 4-6 point reversal in scoring.
You lose a possession and give one to your opponent.
Takeaway 11 turnovers and replace them with just a few points for those 11 possessions and you win the game.
Tatum's not the problem.

I'm not "blaming" Tatum. In fact, if you want to "blame" someone it would be CCM for playing him so much. Look, if what others are saying on here is true (bad knees), then why in the heck does he continually play 25-30 minutes/game? FOr a 5th year Sr. with so many minutes, I cannot justify him playing based on his output and I do not see alot of leadership from him either. I appreciate his effort but he should be a role player off the bench at best.
 
#31
#31
To say Tatum is not the problem is only half correct. He isn't the whole problem, but he is no part of the solution either. His body has failed him and his play has declined, but the mental errors are the most concerning from a fifth-year senior, captain, and leader.

If you're saying Tatum is inconsistent, who on this team isn't? Maymon maybe.
If you say Tatum adds nothing to the game when he's not scoring, check it out.
He's:
5th in pts.
3rd in stls
2nd in assists
3rd in rb (with loss of Hall)
4th in FT %
In fact he was the leading rebounder in the Arkansas game.
McRae is getting his minutes and the alternative to Tatum is Richardson. Not sure that would help us much.
So what's your solution?
 
#32
#32
i wish j mac would start to see big time minutes, around 32, and cam dip down to around 15 or so. i feel like jordan would produce well, in 32 minutes this would be his numbers if he continued his pace...

1st-13.7ppg, t-rd-3.8rpg, 3rd-2.1ast, 2nd-1spg, 3rd-80%ft

i agree cam brings more than the average eye sees, but i do feel jordy could do a nice job in taking some of his minutes away. thatd leave mcbee with his 25 or so and richardson with around the 10 he's been getting recently.

JMHO
 
#33
#33
i wish j mac would start to see big time minutes, around 32, and cam dip down to around 15 or so. i feel like jordan would produce well, in 32 minutes this would be his numbers if he continued his pace...

1st-13.7ppg, t-rd-3.8rpg, 3rd-2.1ast, 2nd-1spg, 3rd-80%ft

i agree cam brings more than the average eye sees, but i do feel jordy could do a nice job in taking some of his minutes away. thatd leave mcbee with his 25 or so and richardson with around the 10 he's been getting recently.

JMHO

I could see McRae getting more minutes and Tatum less.
and he is getting more since he got on the wagon.
He'll probably be a 2-3 combo next year so the more time he gets in the position this year the better.
 
#34
#34
I could see McRae getting more minutes and Tatum less.
and he is getting more since he got on the wagon.
He'll probably be a 2-3 combo next year so the more time he gets in the position this year the better.

his minutes had started to dwindle, and mcraes increase in the last 5 games or so. i think richardson being ill yesterday really messed up that rotation though, it forced jordy to play alot of 2 and then left cam on the floor much more than he had been the previous 5 games.

it'll be worth keeping track of going forward.

if you remember you and i had the conversation about mcrae somewhere around 3 weeks ago. we said that ccm should give him some minutes and almost make it a tryout in a sense. if he shows nothing then you encourage him to leave in the off-season, and if he shows you something then you know what you have going forward. Well, jordan has stepped up to the plate nicely and has given plenty of reason to show some promising signs for next year.

i think a full off season with ccm might benefit this guy more than anybody.
 
#35
#35
i wish j mac would start to see big time minutes, around 32, and cam dip down to around 15 or so. i feel like jordan would produce well, in 32 minutes this would be his numbers if he continued his pace...

1st-13.7ppg, t-rd-3.8rpg, 3rd-2.1ast, 2nd-1spg, 3rd-80%ft

i agree cam brings more than the average eye sees, but i do feel jordy could do a nice job in taking some of his minutes away. thatd leave mcbee with his 25 or so and richardson with around the 10 he's been getting recently.

JMHO

If if's and but's were candies and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas.. or something along those lines. Impossible to say he'd play at the same rate with more minutes, and it's even more unlikely to happen if he were to suddenly jump from 20-25 minutes to 30-35 minutes. The only benefit I can see this late in the season is to get him ready to play those minutes next year.
 
#36
#36
If if's and but's were candies and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas.. or something along those lines. Impossible to say he'd play at the same rate with more minutes, and it's even more unlikely to happen if he were to suddenly jump from 20-25 minutes to 30-35 minutes. The only benefit I can see this late in the season is to get him ready to play those minutes next year.
once again reading comprehension would do you some good, i never said he'd continue the pace, i even said the word IF he continued that pace....

but yea clearly his production didnt increase when he went from 8mpg to his recent 25 mpg right?:crazy:

what makes you say well his minutes increased before and so did his production, but this time if his minutes increase his production wont? what the hell makes you psychic, and say that its not even worth trying?
 
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#37
#37
If you're saying Tatum is inconsistent, who on this team isn't? Maymon maybe.
If you say Tatum adds nothing to the game when he's not scoring, check it out.
He's:
5th in pts.
3rd in stls
2nd in assists
3rd in rb (with loss of Hall)
4th in FT %
In fact he was the leading rebounder in the Arkansas game.
McRae is getting his minutes and the alternative to Tatum is Richardson. Not sure that would help us much.
So what's your solution?

Tatum being 5th in points is not all that impressive given that it ranks him 5th of 11 players that have seen considerable playing time. That's a rather pedestrian, middle-of-the-pack ranking. A more telling stat is that he is 3rd in shot attempts and dead last in FG% of those 11 players.

Simply put, he is wasting far too many possessions to only be our 5th leading scorer.

As a rebounder, he is easily the best of the guards,but being that he is 3rd in shot attempts, it is tough to rebound your own shot barring a long rebound. Perhaps if he weren't shooting as much, he could better utilize his ability to rebound.

He hits FT's at a good pace, but despite being 2nd in the team in minutes per game and 3rd in shot attempts, he is only 6th in FT attempts.

Tatum, despite getting the 2nd most minutes is not efficient at all offensively, and his defense, once a strong point, is now suffering. Things that don't show up in the stat sheet like stupid fouls, defensive breakdowns, missed assignments, and not making the correct pass, are concerning from a fifth-year senior. So, in short, McRae and Richardson should eat up half of Tatum's minutes. I would rather let a sophomore and freshman learn from mistakes that could benefit them in the future than watch a senior make them. Richardson is a better defender right now and his shot selection and decision-making are much more disciplined.
 
#38
#38
Tatum being 5th in points is not all that impressive given that it ranks him 5th of 11 players that have seen considerable playing time. That's a rather pedestrian, middle-of-the-pack ranking. A more telling stat is that he is 3rd in shot attempts and dead last in FG% of those 11 players.

Simply put, he is wasting far too many possessions to only be our 5th leading scorer.

As a rebounder, he is easily the best of the guards,but being that he is 3rd in shot attempts, it is tough to rebound your own shot barring a long rebound. Perhaps if he weren't shooting as much, he could better utilize his ability to rebound.

He hits FT's at a good pace, but despite being 2nd in the team in minutes per game and 3rd in shot attempts, he is only 6th in FT attempts.

Tatum, despite getting the 2nd most minutes is not efficient at all offensively, and his defense, once a strong point, is now suffering. Things that don't show up in the stat sheet like stupid fouls, defensive breakdowns, missed assignments, and not making the correct pass, are concerning from a fifth-year senior. So, in short, McRae and Richardson should eat up half of Tatum's minutes. I would rather let a sophomore and freshman learn from mistakes that could benefit them in the future than watch a senior make them. Richardson is a better defender right now and his shot selection and decision-making are much more disciplined.

McRae had 6 in less minutes, same number as Maymon. Cam had 3.
 
#39
#39
McRae IMO has shown great strides since seeing more minutes. I think it's time ccm takes the next step with jordy and up him to about 30 minutes a game and in effect lowering tatum.

First off I think McRae is playing Better than cam, but second I rather a sophomore with all the potential in the world get the experience, not a 5th year senior. Jmo
 
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#41
#41
Tatum being 5th in points is not all that impressive given that it ranks him 5th of 11 players that have seen considerable playing time. That's a rather pedestrian, middle-of-the-pack ranking. A more telling stat is that he is 3rd in shot attempts and dead last in FG% of those 11 players.

Simply put, he is wasting far too many possessions to only be our 5th leading scorer.

As a rebounder, he is easily the best of the guards,but being that he is 3rd in shot attempts, it is tough to rebound your own shot barring a long rebound. Perhaps if he weren't shooting as much, he could better utilize his ability to rebound.

He hits FT's at a good pace, but despite being 2nd in the team in minutes per game and 3rd in shot attempts, he is only 6th in FT attempts.

Tatum, despite getting the 2nd most minutes is not efficient at all offensively, and his defense, once a strong point, is now suffering. Things that don't show up in the stat sheet like stupid fouls, defensive breakdowns, missed assignments, and not making the correct pass, are concerning from a fifth-year senior. So, in short, McRae and Richardson should eat up half of Tatum's minutes. I would rather let a sophomore and freshman learn from mistakes that could benefit them in the future than watch a senior make them. Richardson is a better defender right now and his shot selection and decision-making are much more disciplined.

I would agree with your solution. More minutes for the guys who will be here next year would be good.
 
#43
#43
I hate it that Tatum has bad knees, but should he be given extra consideration for that? I mean, since he was involved in the infamous New Year's traffic bust - arrested on gun and alcohol charges - that pretty much erases my sympathy vote.

Somebody else has already said it eloquently - he's a 5th yr senior with one foot out the door and isn't producing as he should, so give more of his minutes to the underclassmen with potential. If they're not down with the flu, of course.
 
#44
#44
McRae IMO has shown great strides since seeing more minutes. I think it's time ccm takes the next step with jordy and up him to about 30 minutes a game and in effect lowering tatum.

First off I think McRae is playing Better than cam, but second I rather a sophomore with all the potential in the world get the experience, not a 5th year senior. Jmo

+1
 
#45
#45
If you're saying Tatum is inconsistent, who on this team isn't? Maymon maybe.
If you say Tatum adds nothing to the game when he's not scoring, check it out.
He's:
5th in pts.
3rd in stls
2nd in assists
3rd in rb (with loss of Hall)
4th in FT %
In fact he was the leading rebounder in the Arkansas game.
McRae is getting his minutes and the alternative to Tatum is Richardson. Not sure that would help us much.
So what's your solution?

This is more of negative refection of the talent on this
team and not a positive endorsement for Tatum.. least I hope it is not
 
#46
#46
i wish j mac would start to see big time minutes, around 32, and cam dip down to around 15 or so. i feel like jordan would produce well, in 32 minutes this would be his numbers if he continued his pace...

1st-13.7ppg, t-rd-3.8rpg, 3rd-2.1ast, 2nd-1spg, 3rd-80%ft

i agree cam brings more than the average eye sees, but i do feel jordy could do a nice job in taking some of his minutes away. thatd leave mcbee with his 25 or so and richardson with around the 10 he's been getting recently.

JMHO

YOUR RESPOSE

altidore17 said:
If if's and but's were candies and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas.. or something along those lines. Impossible to say he'd play at the same rate with more minutes, and it's even more unlikely to happen if he were to suddenly jump from 20-25 minutes to 30-35 minutes. The only benefit I can see this late in the season is to get him ready to play those minutes next year.

BUMP.

looks like i know what im talking about altidore...

in 30 minutes...

16pts 6rb 4ast 0to....

it's ok i dont expect you to say i was right i know i was...:hi:
 
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#47
#47
i wish j mac would start to see big time minutes, around 32, and cam dip down to around 15 or so. i feel like jordan would produce well, in 32 minutes this would be his numbers if he continued his pace...

1st-13.7ppg, t-rd-3.8rpg, 3rd-2.1ast, 2nd-1spg, 3rd-80%ft

i agree cam brings more than the average eye sees, but i do feel jordy could do a nice job in taking some of his minutes away. thatd leave mcbee with his 25 or so and richardson with around the 10 he's been getting recently.

JMHO

If if's and but's were candies and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas.. or something along those lines. Impossible to say he'd play at the same rate with more minutes, and it's even more unlikely to happen if he were to suddenly jump from 20-25 minutes to 30-35 minutes. The only benefit I can see this late in the season is to get him ready to play those minutes next year.

ALTIDORE,

the last 2 games...

vs ole miss 30 min 16pts 6rb 4ast 0stl

@ SCjr 32 min 16pts 8 rb 3ast 1stl

i wont say anything, i'll let the numbers do the talking.
:hi:
 
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#48
#48
ALTIDORE,

the last 2 games...

vs ole miss 30 min 16pts 6rb 4ast 0stl

@ SCjr 32 min 16pts 8 rb 3ast 1stl

i wont say anything, i'll let the numbers do the talking.
:hi:

You want a cookie? Do you honestly think I'm going to lose any sleep over some clown like you? Now run along and post 5000 more times before April.
 
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#49
#49
You want a cookie? Do you honestly think I'm going to lose any sleep over some clown like you? Now run along and post 5000 more times before April.

Good boy, way to admit you clearly know nothing about basketball.

thats all to see here, just proving your knowledge once again, or lack there of i should say.

dont worry this will get bumped every game from here on out.
 
#50
#50
And just for fun.. Where did I say it wouldnt work? All I said was that it would be impossible to know until it happened. Congrats on your skill of twisting words. Now get back in your hole.
 

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