'24 MS DL Kamarion Franklin (Ole Miss commit)

[MarcoVol]

Freeze will have Auburn winning 9+ games annually quickly.

Freeze will get fired if all he does is win 9 games every year

 

[Lloyd_Christmas]

No. I use analogies to support opinions. Sorry if you don't like thoughtful interaction.

Sport? Yes. Hopefully not many take it much more serious than that. Frustration? Nope. Distraction? Yes. It is a good distraction from serious stuff.

Interesting though. Your response was to a post that was what 4 or 5 sentences? That's too much for your to read?

Some of my responses are longer. But if you manage $200 million and are "exhausted" by a couple of paragraphs... I'm not sure what to say to you.

 

[Adam Sandler]

I think that answer is disingenuous. You are honestly saying (numbers for arguments sake, and put yourself in the mindset of an 18-22 yr old) if you have been in the program for 3 years, you have been starting for 2 years, never get in trouble, always do what is asked, see productive on the field, and you are making $100,000 a year from NIL, then a HS kid playing the same position comes in, hasn’t played a down of college football, and is making $250,00 a year in NIL money, you would be cool with that?
Even if you would be cool with it, we don’t live in a perfect world. Egos are present in a locker room. Its a tricky process and saying just throw all of the money at player X is a shortsighted thought process at best

Wtf crawled up your @ss? Disingenuous? Short sighted?

Not disingenuous at all. If I’m starting I could give a rats @ss about some high schooler. If I don’t think I’m making what I should be and have voiced that and not see any change then I’ll transfer somewhere that’s willing to offer me what I’m worth and a similar coaching environment that I’ve thrived in. That’s the world we live in now.

Short sighted? Yeah ok I’m trying to win a championship, not four years from now, but next year and every year after that. We’re Tennessee, not Mississippi state. Someone’s comin for your job every year and we’re doing whatever we can to make sure that person is the best possible athlete we can get. Can’t handle that? There’s the door.

 

[bigl3327]

Heupel came in with a vision of how he wanted to build this thing and it's going pretty well so far, but he is building it to be sustainable for the long term. There's not only one particular way of doing it, but there are very few ways to do it that don't result in player arrests and program scandals down the road. These coaches are building a championship culture by recruiting a particular kind of player and establishing team accountability. Heupel has never talked about a 4-5 year plan. He's managed to win immediately with the cards he was dealt, yet some still want to question the direction of the program.
And yes...the collective goes hand in hand with that particular vision.

 

[PlanetVolunteer]

He'll have to find a QB first.

Payton Thorne

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

You don't get that it is STUPID to overpay for a player. It is stupid in the short term when you can get an equal or equivalent player (potential) while preserving your ability to compete for others. It is stupid in the long run because you pay players for production you do not get and you cannot pay for players to fill the roster around and behind them.

Again, I hope you don't manage your personal financial affairs like you suggest Spyre and UT should manage theirs.

A good albeit imperfect analogy would be teaching kids to live on a budget. You give them money to pay for things they want or need. They can overpay. They can waste money on things that have no real value to them. Or... they can spend their money wisely and do BETTER because of it.

It’s stupid to over pay but many other programs do. Answer me this how do you know paying big bucks for guys like Franklin and Nwaneri won’t pay off HUGE? Oh wait you don’t. So don’t pretend like you do. I don’t know if they would work out. But there is this stupid notion that because TAMU laid for a bunch of dudes and they didn’t work out that that’s what would happen here. That’s the biggest bunch of conjecture BS.

It’s like @VolFreakJosh thijos about character guys. Oh well if a guy who is in it for the money we don’t want him. Yet at the same time if Nwaneri and Franklin were to sign here he would be celebrating just like everyone else on here. You can clamor on and on about being stupid to over pay. I am not advocating giving big bucks to just any player. But a player on the caliber of Nwaneri? Franklin? Wingo? Yes I would.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

No.

The fact you actually think over spending on a particular player fixes everything, shows that you lack knowledge of handling money in a responsible manner.

Also, Spyre is smart and will put the resources towards players whom are a fit for Heupel’s culture and not just the ones chasing money for the sake of it.

If you’re that bothered by Spyre, maybe you should stop donating since you think we have a “weak” NIL setup.

First off I never said over paying fixes everything. Please learn how to read. That shows you have a simple lack of fundamental reading comprehension. But getting players the caliber of Nwaneri are what wins championships. UGA and Bama wanted him badly. So did just about every other big time program.

You carry water for every coach on this staff more than anyone else. Well guess what? Garner wants guys like Nwaneri and Franklin. So what does that tell you? It tells me the best DL coach in America sees the talent both guys have. So getting guys like that with Garner isn’t such a gamble. If it were Pruitt and his staff maybe.

 

[GUNTERSVOL]

First off I never said over paying fixes everything. Please learn how to read. That shows you have a simple lack of fundamental reading comprehension. But getting players the caliber of Nwaneri are what wins championships. UGA and Bama wanted him badly. So did just about every other big time program.

You carry water for every coach on this staff more than anyone else. Well guess what? Garner wants guys like Nwaneri and Franklin. So what does that tell you? It tells me the best DL coach in America sees the talent both guys have. So getting guys like that with Garner isn’t such a gamble. If it were Pruitt and his staff maybe.

Like every investment of magnitude, you have to address ROI and if our offer does not get it done after those calculations then so be it. None of these calculations are independent of each other. No matter how good these players are there is a maximum return and risk segment that must be addressed. It is possible these guys have more calculated value or less risk to other programs due to need, fit, and circumstance. Pay, don’t overpay based on one’s knowledge base. If you are not in a pretty tight circle you don’t have the knowledge set to support your vastly overused straw man.

 

[sjt18]

It’s stupid to over pay but many other programs do.

OK... so that's the way you do things? If someone else does something stupid then you should too?

Answer me this how do you know paying big bucks for guys like Franklin and Nwaneri won’t pay off HUGE? Oh wait you don’t. So don’t pretend like you do.

How do I know that spending my salary on lottery tickets won't pay off big? "Oh wait" I don't. That's why you do value assessments and decide what risks and investments are worthy. So how do YOU know there aren't players who will become just as successful who aren't overpriced? Oh wait you don't. In fact, there is a very high likelihood between other recruits and the portal there ARE players like that.

I don’t know if they would work out. But there is this stupid notion that because TAMU laid for a bunch of dudes and they didn’t work out that that’s what would happen here. That’s the biggest bunch of conjecture BS.

I haven't made that argument but notice that you don't have an answer for it either. The DID over pay and it has not paid off. Several of those guys already transferred, right? Does that mean that someone won't hit the lottery? Of course not. But it is still very unlikely.

But a player on the caliber of Nwaneri? Franklin? Wingo? Yes I would.

You have absolutely no idea what their true "caliber" is or how it compares to another guy they're looking at who wouldn't have to be overpaid. You started out by challenging assumptions which is fine. But then you make MUCH bigger ones yourself.

 

[LaagerVol]

First off I never said over paying fixes everything. Please learn how to read. That shows you have a simple lack of fundamental reading comprehension. But getting players the caliber of Nwaneri are what wins championships. UGA and Bama wanted him badly. So did just about every other big time program.

You carry water for every coach on this staff more than anyone else. Well guess what? Garner wants guys like Nwaneri and Franklin. So what does that tell you? It tells me the best DL coach in America sees the talent both guys have. So getting guys like that with Garner isn’t such a gamble. If it were Pruitt and his staff maybe.

If UGA and bama want him so badly then it’s simple for them, just back up the brinks truck and overpay him…. Right?

 

[LaagerVol]

Wtf crawled up your @ss? Disingenuous? Short sighted?

Not disingenuous at all. If I’m starting I could give a rats @ss about some high schooler. If I don’t think I’m making what I should be and have voiced that and not see any change then I’ll transfer somewhere that’s willing to offer me what I’m worth and a similar coaching environment that I’ve thrived in. That’s the world we live in now.

Short sighted? Yeah ok I’m trying to win a championship, not four years from now, but next year and every year after that. We’re Tennessee, not Mississippi state. Someone’s comin for your job every year and we’re doing whatever we can to make sure that person is the best possible athlete we can get. Can’t handle that? There’s the door.

Lol nothing crawled anywhere. It isn’t that serious man. I think your opinion is shortsighted, doesn’t mean I’m mad about it
i think what I’m saying is your above scenario is what coach wants to avoid. He doesn’t want a culture where guys are unhappy and transferring out. He wants healthy competition, you get what you earn, not overpay for someone who hasn’t earned squat. Reward productivity and hard work rather than reward potential and entitled HS “stars” who are only looking for money and not fit.

 

[cncchris33]

Heupel came in with a vision of how he wanted to build this thing and it's going pretty well so far, but he is building it to be sustainable for the long term. There's not only one particular way of doing it, but there are very few ways to do it that don't result in player arrests and program scandals down the road. These coaches are building a championship culture by recruiting a particular kind of player and establishing team accountability. Heupel has never talked about a 4-5 year plan. He's managed to win immediately with the cards he was dealt, yet some still want to question the direction of the program.
And yes...the collective goes hand in hand with that particular vision.

I agree with one exception. Heupel didn't arrive with knowledge that NIL was going to be on the scene, so he had to pivot almost immediately. I do think that aided his efforts in our rebuild and helped to navigate the level of uncertainty caused by NCAA sanctions. The collective goes hand in hand with that vision, now, but he had to adjust on the fly as it wasn't a known entity when CJH came aboard. It has only served to aid his vision, though, IMO.

 

[LouderVol]

You seem hung up on there being a date set to commit. Some of these kids just commit on Twitter or Instagram out of the blue. And what if he sets a commitment date tomorrow for next Saturday? Did he suddenly just decide in an instant? Of course not. You have to read the lay of the land based on what you know in the moment.

And of course it could change, but it could change whether a date is set or not, so that seems like an arbitrary notion to be hung up on. Chris Cole is a perfect example. He has set a date of September 10th, but we still hold out hope that he visits and we change his mind. Him having a date set has little bearing on that.

in the Cole case we have hope because as of right now he is supposed to be visiting September 9th, thats a very good reason to hope. doesn't mean we should count him as a Vol lock.

If you paid attention to what I was saying you can clearly see I was getting on the sunshine pumpers just as much. just in this case its negaVol attitude.

there is no need to jump to any conclusion, and then get your feelings hurt or hate on the coaches when they don't exceed whatever arbitrary expectations you set on them. Us making a conclusion doesn't change anything. If you think he is gone, just ignore the thread. if you think there is still a chance even with tiger dropping tea leaves keep following the thread. Too many Michael Scotts in here declaring outcomes as if it means something to anybody but themselves.

 

[LouderVol]

Payton Thorne

I mean, technically an upgrade for them, but thats really not saying much.

 

[Volinnooga]

in the Cole case we have hope because as of right now he is supposed to be visiting September 9th, thats a very good reason to hope. doesn't mean we should count him as a Vol lock.

If you paid attention to what I was saying you can clearly see I was getting on the sunshine pumpers just as much. just in this case its negaVol attitude.

there is no need to jump to any conclusion, and then get your feelings hurt or hate on the coaches when they don't exceed whatever arbitrary expectations you set on them. Us making a conclusion doesn't change anything. If you think he is gone, just ignore the thread. if you think there is still a chance even with tiger dropping tea leaves keep following the thread. Too many Michael Scotts in here declaring outcomes as if it means something to anybody but themselves.

Can you all please take your arguments elsewhere so we can follow the ups and downs of this kid’s recruitment?

 

[jakez4ut]

i think there's a balance that has to be struck on the notion of "over" paying. to me, it's all about value. cause the thing that's the same for all these prospects is it's all based on future potential. there's nothing tangible about this at all. but every program has a player or two that probably fit in the category of "will not take no for an answer". but you can't do that with everyone.....

and i think it's important for the school and the collective(s) to understand each other in this regard because there's two reputations you don't want to get as a result of this process....that you're either too willing to pay more/get in to bidding wars, because then you're only good for a counter offer, or that you're inflexible and won't pay top dollar, cause top prospects would just eliminate you as an option pretty early in the process.

so i think identifying prospects that have NIL as THE priority for their recruitment is important, and i think having a good understanding of what value your program brings in terms of the benefits, both short term and long term, is very important. And that it can be communicated and explained to the point of addressing concerns a prospect may have about it.

and being honest in that communication.....and really we're still too early in the NIL era to know which programs and collectives actually do what they say they will and which can't/don't.....but we've already seen at aTm and Florida that some of this can bite you in the butt.

so in the end, if a prospect is swayed by university x because of NIL only, i'm fine with that. i don't think we should have to overpay to get a kid to come here. i think we've proven we're already competing for recruits at a high level and we've won some, and lost some. if Wingo and Williams wind up at Missouri because of the desperate NIL law the state of MO made and they get a little more cash NOW, well.........good for them i guess. if a kid winds up at OSU, Bama or UGA....then i generally get that, and chock it up to "safer bet".

in the end, we're still getting some great talent these days, and we are winning recruiting battles against the big boys. and better yet, they're having to BEAT US in the process too....it's no longer a slam dunk that a kid considering UGA and/or Bama over TN, is NOT coming here....

 

[sjt18]

i think there's a balance that has to be struck on the notion of "over" paying. to me, it's all about value. cause the thing that's the same for all these prospects is it's all based on future potential. there's nothing tangible about this at all. but every program has a player or two that probably fit in the category of "will not take no for an answer". but you can't do that with everyone.....

and i think it's important for the school and the collective(s) to understand each other in this regard because there's two reputations you don't want to get as a result of this process....that you're either too willing to pay more/get in to bidding wars, because then you're only good for a counter offer, or that you're inflexible and won't pay top dollar, cause top prospects would just eliminate you as an option pretty early in the process.

so i think identifying prospects that have NIL as THE priority for their recruitment is important, and i think having a good understanding of what value your program brings in terms of the benefits, both short term and long term, is very important. And that it can be communicated and explained to the point of addressing concerns a prospect may have about it.

and being honest in that communication.....and really we're still too early in the NIL era to know which programs and collectives actually do what they say they will and which can't/don't.....but we've already seen at aTm and Florida that some of this can bite you in the butt.

so in the end, if a prospect is swayed by university x because of NIL only, i'm fine with that. i don't think we should have to overpay to get a kid to come here. i think we've proven we're already competing for recruits at a high level and we've won some, and lost some. if Wingo and Williams wind up at Missouri because of the desperate NIL law the state of MO made and they get a little more cash NOW, well.........good for them i guess. if a kid winds up at OSU, Bama or UGA....then i generally get that, and chock it up to "safer bet".

in the end, we're still getting some great talent these days, and we are winning recruiting battles against the big boys. and better yet, they're having to BEAT US in the process too....it's no longer a slam dunk that a kid considering UGA and/or Bama over TN, is NOT coming here....

You do know how wrong you are with all this reasoning. It isn't good enough just to get great talent without overbidding... you MUST have specific players who are being made big offers. Of course all of that is because journalists have slapped a 5* label on them.

In all seriousness though... that was a great post. Thank you for summarizing what many of us have been thinking and trying to say.

 

[SweetasSoda]

i think there's a balance that has to be struck on the notion of "over" paying. to me, it's all about value. cause the thing that's the same for all these prospects is it's all based on future potential. there's nothing tangible about this at all. but every program has a player or two that probably fit in the category of "will not take no for an answer". but you can't do that with everyone.....

and i think it's important for the school and the collective(s) to understand each other in this regard because there's two reputations you don't want to get as a result of this process....that you're either too willing to pay more/get in to bidding wars, because then you're only good for a counter offer, or that you're inflexible and won't pay top dollar, cause top prospects would just eliminate you as an option pretty early in the process.

so i think identifying prospects that have NIL as THE priority for their recruitment is important, and i think having a good understanding of what value your program brings in terms of the benefits, both short term and long term, is very important. And that it can be communicated and explained to the point of addressing concerns a prospect may have about it.

and being honest in that communication.....and really we're still too early in the NIL era to know which programs and collectives actually do what they say they will and which can't/don't.....but we've already seen at aTm and Florida that some of this can bite you in the butt.

so in the end, if a prospect is swayed by university x because of NIL only, i'm fine with that. i don't think we should have to overpay to get a kid to come here. i think we've proven we're already competing for recruits at a high level and we've won some, and lost some. if Wingo and Williams wind up at Missouri because of the desperate NIL law the state of MO made and they get a little more cash NOW, well.........good for them i guess. if a kid winds up at OSU, Bama or UGA....then i generally get that, and chock it up to "safer bet".

in the end, we're still getting some great talent these days, and we are winning recruiting battles against the big boys. and better yet, they're having to BEAT US in the process too....it's no longer a slam dunk that a kid considering UGA and/or Bama over TN, is NOT coming here....

Ahhhhh….the voice of reason

 

[Adam Sandler]

Lol nothing crawled anywhere. It isn’t that serious man. I think your opinion is shortsighted, doesn’t mean I’m mad about it
i think what I’m saying is your above scenario is what coach wants to avoid. He doesn’t want a culture where guys are unhappy and transferring out. He wants healthy competition, you get what you earn, not overpay for someone who hasn’t earned squat. Reward productivity and hard work rather than reward potential and entitled HS “stars” who are only looking for money and not fit.

Why not both? You can have that type of culture and bring in top level talent. But you gotta get the talent here first to have the opportunity to do that. And I think part of that is unavoidable in the sense that it’s just the nature of the atmosphere in college football right now.

Like the staff said, these kids don’t have to be perfect for the culture yet, part of that is on the coaches to teach and mold, but they have to say enough of the right things. I would assume at least some of these elite talents say “enough of the right things” and we’ve got to start landing those guys to regularly be competitive with the UGAs and Bamas of the world. And I’d risk overpaying here or there to make that happen jmo

 

[IMissTheMidRangeGame]

 

[Glitch]

Tennessee in the middle. I choose to continue to believe.

 

[Weezer]

Nwaneri and Franklin announcing in the same week. Potential for a lot of heartbreak or a lot of happiness.

 

[PYSCHO]

Payton Thorne

oh boy!

 

[HoleInTheRoof]

So not us?

I legit thought this guy was a shoo in at one point.

 

[VolFreakJosh]

So not us?

I legit thought this guy was a shoo in at one point.

He’s just looking for the highest bidder.

Always has been.