NCAA = Slavery You can't make this stuff up

[MaTaLa]

Since when are students considered employees?

Outside of legal conext

 

[Lawrence Wright]

Or how about just doing away with the one year out of high school requirement for the NBA draft and go back to the way it was when Kobe, Lebron, Dwight Howard and many others went straight to the NBA. That should kill this whining. You hate the NCAA system and want to start earning money right away? Great! You don't have to go to college. Just go straight to the NBA draft and hopefully you get drafted and make a roster. If not, go play overseas... If you can't catch on overseas, go to the NBA developmental league. If you catch on there either? You should have gone to college and been happy with your free education and kept your mouth shut.

Quality post right there.

 

[MyBloodRunnethOrange]

Friendly competition? Please lay out this “friendly competition” and how it would work between various schools. Nobody is going to tune in for a 3:30 CBS football game of the week to watch Billy Joe McGirt from nearby Newport, TN, fulfill his dream of running through the T every weekend, while all the cool kids are playing for the New Mexico Cactus or the Reno Pimps . They will watch Derek Barnett go for the all time sack leader at UT or wanting to see who is going to win the QB competition at Bama, Tua or Hurts.

That's what we're talking about. When collegiate sports first started out it was a simple friendly competition between students at the schools. When the schools, TV networks, NCAA itself realized what a gold mine they were sitting on it became big business. All of those organizations make millions off of the current situation. Everyone involved except for the players.

Would a development league significantly impact that revenue stream for those organizations? More than likely yes. But the kids that are getting knocked around would be getting paid to play, and they're the only ones that matter IMO.

 

[RDU VOL#14]

That's what we're talking about. When collegiate sports first started out it was a simple friendly competition between students at the schools. When the schools, TV networks, NCAA itself realized what a gold mine they were sitting on it became big business. All of those organizations make millions off of the current situation. Everyone involved except for the players.

Would a development league significantly impact that revenue stream for those organizations? More than likely yes. But the kids that are getting knocked around would be getting paid to play, and they're the only ones that matter IMO.

Well, my point is that this is a short term monetary fix if you’re going to do a d league. How many teams? How many players? Who grades you? Who pays you? A lot of these kids would never go to school if it weren’t for athletics. What if someone gets a career ending injury and has no other option but to go back to his crappy neighborhood working a terrible job with nothing to fall back on? Marcus Lattimore is a perfect example of this. If he had gone to a d league I doubt he’d be where he is now, with a degree coaching at South Carolina. There are too many players to have a farm system, not enough good coaches who will take massive pay cuts . Its not basketball or baseball, there are 22 people on the field every play, 28 if Dooley is coach. If you run just a 2 deep that’s half of the ESPN top 100 recruits. 6 teams is the top 300. I just don’t see it. Too many moving parts, that and nobody cares to watch the Fargo Woodchippers take on the Orlando Speed Passes for the Green Cup.

 

[LouderVol]

There simply wouldn't be any major college sports.

lol. you are saying college football didn't exist before DI schools provided fool blown scholarships, err slavery. and it definitely doesn't exist at the lower levels where they don't get full scholarships.

the game might suffer, but it would survive.

 

[LouderVol]

They don't need college. They need development, and the NFL is more than happy to let the schools run a farm league.

and these kids are more than happy to sign up for it. they can sit out and "develop" for 3 years all they want. nothing making them sign the contract with a school. I would also say 99% of the time the player gets to choose the school too.

 

[LouderVol]

It's not really about "need", it's about what's right. What are we, socialists? Since when does need trump value?

so why hasn't capitalist America provided the system yet? or ever? colleges were the most successful and the other systems died off, or became the 1% minority. you don't like the results of the capitalist society and now want to dictate things to have a more capitalistic nature. kinda ironic in my books.

 

[05_never_again]

I read somewhere once that there are 2 bonafide ways to torpedo your argument, even if you are in the right:

1 - Misrepresent your opponent's argument (straw man).
2 - Overstate/exaggerate your own argument.

This most definitely is #2.

 

[LouderVol]

You're right.

The fact that the schools make millions off their efforts, names, and likenesses both during and after the kids are in school means that the kids should get paid.

schools make millions of the efforts, names, and likenesses of all their students.

I bet every school has a proud list of students who achieved something. Rhoads scholars, Nobel prize winners, CEOs, politicians etc.

its actually even worse for the students because they paid the university to do such in most cases.

 

[n_huffhines]

so why hasn't capitalist America provided the system yet? or ever? colleges were the most successful and the other systems died off, or became the 1% minority. you don't like the results of the capitalist society and now want to dictate things to have a more capitalistic nature. kinda ironic in my books.

Because we're not that capitalist, probably. That was basically my point

 

[LouderVol]

A big part of my problem, yes. The NFL/NCAA model is mutually-beneficial to everyone but the players.

lol. good to know college education, free food, room and board etc etc isn't beneficial.

 

[LouderVol]

Friendly competition? Please lay out this “friendly competition” and how it would work between various schools. Nobody is going to tune in for a 3:30 CBS football game of the week to watch Billy Joe McGirt from nearby Newport, TN, fulfill his dream of running through the T every weekend, while all the cool kids are playing for the New Mexico Cactus or the Reno Pimps . They will watch Derek Barnett go for the all time sack leader at UT or wanting to see who is going to win the QB competition at Bama, Tua or Hurts.

no one watched football before full blown scholarships?

High school football not have a big following where you are from? It will be watched. sure not to the same rate, but it will be popular. its how we got to this point.

 

[LouderVol]

Because we're not that capitalist, probably. That was basically my point

or the current system was the best and has already won that fight. Colleges provided a better service than the rest and won. and they won long before they were making millions off of them.

 

[05_never_again]

lol. good to know college education, free food, room and board etc etc isn't beneficial.

It's really hard to argue that Johnny Manziel (just as an example) was fairly compensated for his time on the football team at Texas A&M.

The kids in the non-revenue producing sports are fairly (actually, probably more than fairly) compensated via their scholarships. The marginal to average players in the revenue-producing sports are fairly compensated via scholarships.

However, I think it is totally fair to question whether or not superstar athletes in revenue producing sports are fairly compensated relative to the revenue they help bring in.

 

[LouderVol]

It's really hard to argue that Johnny Manziel (just as an example) was fairly compensated for his time on the football team at Texas A&M.

The kids in the non-revenue producing sports are fairly (actually, probably more than fairly) compensated via their scholarships. The marginal to average players in the revenue-producing sports are fairly compensated via scholarships.

However, I think it is totally fair to question whether or not superstar athletes in revenue producing sports are fairly compensated relative to the revenue they help bring in.

Manziel is an interesting case. his open market value was zero, last I heard no NFL team had him.

we are dealing with two levels of college football fans.

those of us who are fans of the college, I would argue everyone on this board. and then those who just like the sport and don't follow a specific team.

How many school fans follow a player to a different college? Grad transfer/juco/whatever? I am betting slim to none. Peyton is loved for what he did at UT, not what he did in the pros. I would say the Colts and Broncos probably gained a bunch of UT fans with Peyton and lost them when he left. why? because of the school.

We care because we have a tie to the school. I don't care about the NFL. I have no attachment to it. I will only watch big games, otherwise I don't care. even then its a casual thing.

College football got big off of the college fans. boosters aren't there for names. they are there for the school.

Manziel only really had a value to school because he wore THEIR jersey.

 

[bamawriter]

lol. you are saying college football didn't exist before DI schools provided fool blown scholarships

No, it didn't. Schools have been offering some form of incentives to student-athletes since at least the 1870s, and the NCAA formally defined the athletic scholarship in 1950.

 

[bamawriter]

schools make millions of the efforts, names, and likenesses of all their students.

I bet every school has a proud list of students who achieved something. Rhoads scholars, Nobel prize winners, CEOs, politicians etc.

its actually even worse for the students because they paid the university to do such in most cases.

A list of past students is hardly the same as selling posters, calendars, shirts, coffee mugs, etc with a players' name/image.

 

[05_never_again]

Manziel is an interesting case. his open market value was zero, last I heard no NFL team had him.

we are dealing with two levels of college football fans.

those of us who are fans of the college, I would argue everyone on this board. and then those who just like the sport and don't follow a specific team.

How many school fans follow a player to a different college? Grad transfer/juco/whatever? I am betting slim to none. Peyton is loved for what he did at UT, not what he did in the pros. I would say the Colts and Broncos probably gained a bunch of UT fans with Peyton and lost them when he left. why? because of the school.

We care because we have a tie to the school. I don't care about the NFL. I have no attachment to it. I will only watch big games, otherwise I don't care. even then its a casual thing.

College football got big off of the college fans. boosters aren't there for names. they are there for the school.

Manziel only really had a value to school because he wore THEIR jersey.

Agreed. I'm not saying Manziel should have been paid millions or anything like that while he was in school. Also, the fact that he was an NFL flameout is totally irrelevant. I'm talking about his worth to A&M when he was a student-athlete there.

I agree that a ton of the value of a school's football team is wrapped up in the value of the brand. When Manziel stepped onto campus, he had nothing to do with creating the value of the existing brand, which he stepped into and was able to use for himself. Totally agree there.

However, it is inarguable that Manziel himself did a ton to raise the profile of the school in the short time he was there. A&M had record donations to the school (blew away previous annual donation records) and the football program has record revenues the two years he was there. That was not a coincidence. The school was able to fund the huge expansion/renovation of Kyle Field largely due to the increased revenue over the last several years, which, IMO, Manziel personally had a lot to do with bringing in.

In exchange for that, he was compensated roughly $55k. And not in cash, but in the form of room and board.

Manziel and other superstars (Cam Newton, Deshaun Watson, etc.) are unique cases and it is pretty easy to argue that they aren't fairly being compensated.

Players in non-revenue producing sports? Yes, they get a great deal. Marginal to average players in the revenue-producing sports? Yes, they get a good deal too. The superstars who become nationally-known and raise the profile of their entire universities? Not so much.

Also, your Peyton analogy is a bit off, IMO. Peyton is remembered by UT fans for what he did at UT. He's remembered by most of the country at large for what he did in the NFL. He became the marketing machine he did because of his exploits in the NFL.

 

[n_huffhines]

or the current system was the best and has already won that fight. Colleges provided a better service than the rest and won. and they won long before they were making millions off of them.

You really think the best system won?

 

[bamawriter]

lol. good to know college education, free food, room and board etc etc isn't beneficial.

That one party receives minor benefit while all other parties receive major benefits is hardly "mutually beneficial."

 

[bamawriter]

no one watched football before full blown scholarships?

Even using 1950 as the date that the NCAA formally created the "athletic scholarship" (and again, all they did was formalize what the schools had been doing for 70-80 years), the number of homes with televisions was still fairly small. There were regional broadcasts of certain games, but the first nationally televised game didn't occur until 1952.

So, no, hardly anyone watched football before scholarships came into the picture.

 

[05_never_again]

Even using 1950 as the date that the NCAA formally created the "athletic scholarship" (and again, all they did was formalize what the schools had been doing for 70-80 years), the number of homes with televisions was still fairly small. There were regional broadcasts of certain games, but the first nationally televised game didn't occur until 1952.

So, no, hardly anyone watched football before scholarships came into the picture.

You seem to have a lot of historical knowledge about this and other sports topics...who do you write for? Enjoy your takes.

 

[bamawriter]

You seem to have a lot of historical knowledge about this and other sports topics...who do you write for? Enjoy your takes.

I'm independently syndicated. Small local papers that want to print SEC football related columns, but don't want to pay staff, will carry my stuff. It's not my full-time job, but it puts a little extra in my pocket.

I'd give you a list of publications, but I like to keep my name off here. VN and the SEC Rant are kind of my places to argue with people because it would be unprofessional to do it in the comments section of my column. Heck, it's probably unprofessional to do it here, but... eh.

 

[05_never_again]

I'm independently syndicated. Small local papers that want to print SEC football related columns, but don't want to pay staff, will carry my stuff. It's not my full-time job, but it puts a little extra in my pocket.

I'd give you a list of publications, but I like to keep my name off here. VN and the SEC Rant are kind of my places to argue with people because it would be unprofessional to do it in the comments section of my column. Heck, it's probably unprofessional to do it here, but... eh.

Well, I'm glad you do it here. Even though you are a Bammer.

 

[TUSKtimes]

Some of it I get, some of it is just having it your own way. Being African-American doesn't make the "slavery" comparison any less a poor choice of words. Would be nice if life came with a manual that just fit everyone regardless of a person's aptitude and life's experience. Not a kid in school that gets one of those manuals by the way. Mom admitted that she was in the player's ear about the benefits of a good education yet he can't wait to go to the NBA BEFORE year one is over. So what's the problem? Had the NBA allowed her son to go immediately to the draft after high school what would Mom have told junior?

This is still very much an NBA problem with these one and doners. Knowing that you have an NBA talented basketball player that is out of school before he is in, doesn't strike of tyranny and cruelty. Something by the way that was a common occurrence with "slavery."