NIL Money - Preventing Locker Room Issues

[NCFisher]

NLRB claim to argue USC athletes are employees

I see your concern but this has a long legal road and whereas NIL had an indisputable legal basis, I'm not sure this does. There is a list of good arguments against the notion of students as employees, and fewer supporting it as a legal precedent. Nothing keeps players from organizing, going on strike and collective bargaining right now, stopping the bowl game and CFP in their tracks. They don't have to be employees to do that. I think NIL and the portal further undercut the employee argument since the school no longer restricts your movement or income opportunities. To the contrary, the school's athletic program is the stage for showcasing your talents and earning NIL money, and a shot at the pros.

As I mentioned, being offered and accepting a scholarship is a mutually beneficial arrangement both parties voluntarily enter. If the athlete does not want an education, room/board, professional training and medical care, they can decline the scholarship and find their own path to the professional leagues.

 

[NCFisher]

Forty five years in business tells me that there are flaws in any business that is mismanaged or when the rules get stretched. I don’t know much about the NIL nor do I know a solution but this thing has not been controlled well from the start. The more money that gets thrown at the players, the wilder it’s going to get. Write it down.

That's because there's nothing to control; a collegiate athlete may earn as much money as is offered him for his NIL endorsements. It is a private agreement between two parties, just like my job or yours.

Then let’s ban the use of the term “college football” and call it what it is. Professional football. I agree that players should receive their fair share of revenue but this NIL thing is not going to go well for teams when some guys are getting millions and other guys are getting a few thousand. And as the money gets bigger, it will get worse. Jealously is a natural thing. Jeremy Banks says hey.

I was against Coach Tater keeping J. Banks and support Heupel discipling him in a last chance stab for J. Banks to 'get it', but he won't. I doubt J. Banks will turn out well, so I'd be reluctant to use him as a precautionary tale.

Your neighbor is jealous of your wife, the other one of your Lexus. Old women and men are jealous of younger ones and untalented or ugly people jealous of attractive people, talented people. I'd wager there's less jealousy in the college locker room that society at large. And if it isn't? - tough. Time they're exposed to what 'fairness' really means in life; that no one prevents you being your best you, and nothing more. That's NIL.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

I see your concern but this has a long legal road and whereas NIL had an indisputable legal basis, I'm not sure this does. There is a list of good arguments against the notion of students as employees, and fewer supporting it as a legal precedent. Nothing keeps players from organizing, going on strike and collective bargaining right now, stopping the bowl game and CFP in their tracks. They don't have to be employees to do that. I think NIL and the portal further undercut the employee argument since the school no longer restricts your movement or income opportunities. To the contrary, the school's athletic program is the stage for showcasing your talents and earning NIL money, and a shot at the pros.

As I mentioned, being offered and accepting a scholarship is a mutually beneficial arrangement both parties voluntarily enter. If the athlete does not want an education, room/board, professional training and medical care, they can decline the scholarship and find their own path to the professional leagues.

You might want to see the above link to the Time Magazine article I posted. Justice Kavanaugh and Justice Gorsuch (to a lesser extent) seem to think NCAA players are employees and the NCAA is in violation of anti-trust laws by not paying them at "market value."

 

[NCFisher]

They aren't the sole reason people go to watch the game but there are very few players we've had in the last 15-20 years where I've been like "Man I gotta see them play in person". I went to watch the Tennessee Volunteers, not one individual. You seem far more upset than me. I'm just stating my opinion. I have no problem with them getting what they can. I just think some teammates are getting a raw deal even though they're a factor in the star's success. If Hooker got sacked times a game and pressured another 10, or if we can't run the ball, or if the defense doesn't get some stops vs PITT while the offense struggled, etc. He's not as marketable and brings in less money.

C'mon, you're quibbling over the exception to the rule. The support personnel are necessary, but the skill guys are the only reason the game is played. Otherwise, we could entertain ourselves with rugby and wrestling instead....ohhh, can't wait......

I'm not upset at all, why are you? To me, these are the facts, this is the situation, and fans can save themselves a lot of gnashing by dispassionately realizing it. Someone is always going to overshadow you via talent, looks, intelligence and have better opportunities than you. College is a good age for kids to grow up before jettisoning into that real world.

There probably isn't a guy in the locker room who doesn't want a pro career; you think they don't know how the league works? Another player doesn't owe you a dime of his earnings. Get your own or realize you're cut out for a different path. You'll be happier and better off.

 

[Seattle Hillbilly]

The big difference is your co-workers were probably still getting paid their worth for contributing to the company. Some players that directly contribute to all the money generated from the football team do not receive anything (most likely).

Fair point.

 

[CNCVol88]

The big difference is your co-workers were probably still getting paid their worth for contributing to the company. Some players that directly contribute to all the money generated from the football team do not receive anything (most likely).

And no one is being paid by the University themselves so those players need to make themselves more marketable.

 

[Vol865]

C'mon, you're quibbling over the exception to the rule. The support personnel are necessary, but the skill guys are the only reason the game is played. Otherwise, we could entertain ourselves with rugby and wrestling instead....ohhh, can't wait......

I'm not upset at all, why are you? To me, these are the facts, this is the situation, and fans can save themselves a lot of gnashing by dispassionately realizing it. Someone is always going to overshadow you via talent, looks, intelligence and have better opportunities than you. College is a good age for kids to grow up before jettisoning into that real world.

There probably isn't a guy in the locker room who doesn't want a pro career; you think they don't know how the league works? Another player doesn't owe you a dime of his earnings. Get your own or realize you're cut out for a different path. You'll be happier and better off.

So a LT is one of the most coveted positions in the NFL but they're worth nothing in college? That's flawed logic.

And I'm not doing the "I know you are but what am I" stuff. I've already said I'm not upset about it but you're hellbent that someone has to be just because someone doesn't 100% agree with something.

 

[NCFisher]

So a LT is one of the most coveted positions in the NFL but they're worth nothing in college? That's flawed logic.

And I'm not doing the "I know you are but what am I" stuff. I've already said I'm not upset about it but you're hellbent that someone has to be just because someone doesn't 100% agree with something.

They're worth what someone is willing to pay them for an endorsement, and no more. That's reality logic we see reflected in NFL salaries and NIL deals.

Your comment "You seem far more upset than me." implies you're upset, but not as much as you think I am. It doesn't matter to me if you are/not.

 

[NCFisher]

You might want to see the above link to the Time Magazine article I posted. Justice Kavanaugh and Justice Gorsuch (to a lesser extent) seem to think NCAA players are employees and the NCAA is in violation of anti-trust laws by not paying them at "market value."

Yes, that better supports your concern; but Kavanaugh alone or in tandem doesn't establish this as inevitable, or a complete argument. Scholarships themselves are a form of compensation typically having student obligations, perhaps substantial. The school is buying something of financial value to itself.

Kav is justifiably pillorying the NCAA cartel in the moment and context of that case. Since, NIL has become ubiquitous and the portal gives them mobility. NIL deals come with player obligations, too, and yet the player is not an employee of the entity paying them. Not sure why schools couldn't likewise contractually compensate without becoming employers.

 

[DeerPark12]

As long as some players on the team are being paid and others are not receiving money, there will always be tension in the locker room. Banks is a tremendous player but wasn’t getting NIL money.
My solution is to have each NIL deal benefit the entire team. Every time a player gets an NIL deal, a portion of that amount (like a tax) is taken out and put into a pot of money that gets divided between every scholarship player on the team each month via check. It doesn’t sound like much, but I believe it would add up depending on what that percent is used. This allows the individual player with the NIL deal to receive a significant amount of money, while their teammates also benefit. This is not the pros where everyone on the roster is paid. This is college football and players couldn’t receive anything until just recently. Every player on the field is a major contributor to the success of each player around them. It only makes sense that the teammates that helped a player get a NIL deal receive part of their NIL money. Let me know everyone’s thoughts.

If Banks hadn’t gotten arrested and made the comments about police that he did, the. He would have one of the highest NIL values on the team. He made his choices and learned from them, but there were and will continue to be consequences.

I’m not in favor of your plan. The free market is the free market. If players are jealous, then they’re jealous. It’s in their hands to make themselves more marketable.

 

[Vol865]

They're worth what someone is willing to pay them for an endorsement, and no more. That's reality logic we see reflected in NFL salaries and NIL deals.

Your comment "You seem far more upset than me." implies you're upset, but not as much as you think I am. It doesn't matter to me if you are/not.

You're trying way too hard to spin that into something it's not. Quite the coincidence though because it also doesn't matter to me what matters to you.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Yes, that better supports your concern; but Kavanaugh alone or in tandem doesn't establish this as inevitable, or a complete argument. Scholarships themselves are a form of compensation typically having student obligations, perhaps substantial. The school is buying something of financial value to itself.

Kav is justifiably pillorying the NCAA cartel in the moment and context of that case. Since, NIL has become ubiquitous and the portal gives them mobility. NIL deals come with player obligations, too, and yet the player is not an employee of the entity paying them. Not sure why schools couldn't likewise contractually compensate without becoming employers.

Alston was a 9-0 ruling by the Supreme Court. Gorsuch's opinion for the Court said the NCAA was clearly in violation of the Sherman Antitrust Act and the only thing that kept them from going after that was the narrow scope of lawsuit in front of them.

The Supreme Court is not divided about player compensation and there's no reason to think they're divided about the NCAA being in violation of anti-trust laws by not paying players.

Gorsuch alluded to how the NCAA executives, conference executives, ADs, and coaches are making millions from basketball and football but the actual players aren't being compensated for their work and that's not going to pass an anti-trust test. That's the OFFICIAL Supreme Court opinion, not Kavanaugh's addition. Again, 9-0. No dissents to what Gorsuch wrote.

 

[VOLINVONORE]

But there isn't unless individual players with NIL deals decide to give money away themselves. NIL is nothing more or less than a business paying a specific person to endorse their brand.
Everyone needs to understand there is no intermediary who can step in and make that income communal. Just like your own income, that income belongs to the individual player. The justice system has declared schools and the NCAA cannot prevent students from engaging in commerce, just as everyone else does. This is permanent and will never change. Same with the transfer portal; it's unconscionable that schools/NCAA were once able to hold students hostage at an institution.

That should end >99% of the discussion.

Miami players have a NIL for their entire team sponsored by one of the Alumni. Each player receives about 20-25,000 / yr. Seems like a good way to go and everyone get some $$. That does not prevent star players from getting more $$ from other NIL deals. Bach whenI was in school, Football players were allowed to get jobs around Knoxville which required them to actually work. They were not gifts. Many of the jobs were manual in nature like working in construction. landscaping etc. That went away when schools starting requiring players to work out in the weight room and other conditions workouts. as well as go to summer school to get ahead in their academic studies. Many have used the additions class work to graduate early and get and advanced degree or move on to work at a real job, or transfer to another school to play another year of football.

Everyone knows that they can not prevent students/players from engaging in commerce, but the schools are not permitted to provide money to students. Students must arrange for a NIL without interference from the school and can control how much they earn through their NILs. Therefore, if a student athlete wants to get anNIL, they must arrange it themselves.

In other words, Nils are an avenue from any player to arrange a NIL with any company person who is willing to pay a player for his/her Name, likeness, or likeness.

 

[NCFisher]

Miami players have a NIL for their entire team sponsored by one of the Alumni. Each player receives about 20-25,000 / yr. Seems like a good way to go and everyone get some $$. That does not prevent star players from getting more $$ from other NIL deals. Bach whenI was in school, Football players were allowed to get jobs around Knoxville which required them to actually work. They were not gifts. Many of the jobs were manual in nature like working in construction. landscaping etc. That went away when schools starting requiring players to work out in the weight room and other conditions workouts. as well as go to summer school to get ahead in their academic studies. Many have used the additions class work to graduate early and get and advanced degree or move on to work at a real job, or transfer to another school to play another year of football.

Everyone knows that they can not prevent students/players from engaging in commerce, but the schools are not permitted to provide money to students. Students must arrange for a NIL without interference from the school and can control how much they earn through their NILs. Therefore, if a student athlete wants to get anNIL, they must arrange it themselves.

In other words, Nils are an avenue from any player to arrange a NIL with any company person who is willing to pay a player for his/her Name, likeness, or likeness.

That's a good post showing a structure that other NIL groups could emulate. The deals they put together can be as imaginative and persuasive as the money sources are willing.

 

[cgrish]

Bank's lack of NIL momey was his own fault. The 2 incidents on video from the Pruitt years don't make companies want you associated with their product.

I see what you're getting at on splitting the money. But I don't think the school can do that. The whole point of NIL is the school isn't involved. It's between the player and whoever is paying them. The school has no claim to that cash.

I personaly do not like the NIL in its present form. To me it will cause division on a team. For example, where would a qb be without a decent ol? Football is a team sport,, it takes all working together as a team. A good OL can make a qb look better than he is. A bad Ol can make a good qb look worse than he is. You don't hear of too many OL players getting NIL deals, or at least I haven't. I just really feel it is gona cause division on a team and players playing for themselves only and not as a team.

 

[Delmar]

I personaly do not like the NIL in its present form. To me it will cause division on a team. For example, where would a qb be without a decent ol? Football is a team sport,, it takes all working together as a team. A good OL can make a qb look better than he is. A bad Ol can make a good qb look worse than he is. You don't hear of too many OL players getting NIL deals, or at least I haven't. I just really feel it is gona cause division on a team and players playing for themselves only and not as a team.

Yep. If I was our LT, I might have to tell Nico that he might need to get up off of a couple of hundred thousand or I might have to let that maneating defensive end get past me a few times on the blindside. I’m sort of joking but then again……

 

[Delmar]

That's because there's nothing to control; a collegiate athlete may earn as much money as is offered him for his NIL endorsements. It is a private agreement between two parties, just like my job or yours.



I was against Coach Tater keeping J. Banks and support Heupel discipling him in a last chance stab for J. Banks to 'get it', but he won't. I doubt J. Banks will turn out well, so I'd be reluctant to use him as a precautionary tale.

Your neighbor is jealous of your wife, the other one of your Lexus. Old women and men are jealous of younger ones and untalented or ugly people jealous of attractive people, talented people. I'd wager there's less jealousy in the college locker room that society at large. And if it isn't? - tough. Time they're exposed to what 'fairness' really means in life; that no one prevents you being your best you, and nothing more. That's NIL.

Interesting. You think a guy 18 to 20 years old without a fully formed brain is going to think rationally about his teammates getting 10 times more money than he is and just accept it? I don’t think anybody can judge what’s going to happen with this mess based on one year. Let’s give it 2 or 3 years and see how well it’s working. Personally I think there’s going to be a big increase in portal traffic with guys looking for better pay. Sounds like great fun figuring out who’s going to be on your favorite team from one year to the next.

 

[NCFisher]

Alston was a 9-0 ruling by the Supreme Court. Gorsuch's opinion for the Court said the NCAA was clearly in violation of the Sherman Antitrust Act and the only thing that kept them from going after that was the narrow scope of lawsuit in front of them.

The Supreme Court is not divided about player compensation and there's no reason to think they're divided about the NCAA being in violation of anti-trust laws by not paying players.

Gorsuch alluded to how the NCAA executives, conference executives, ADs, and coaches are making millions from basketball and football but the actual players aren't being compensated for their work and that's not going to pass an anti-trust test. That's the OFFICIAL Supreme Court opinion, not Kavanaugh's addition. Again, 9-0. No dissents to what Gorsuch wrote.

Yes, I read that before replying - "Kavanaugh alone or in tandem" - and I remain unconvinced that universities will inevitably be decreed employers of players. The legal arguments posed will be different and the circumstances are already different; no longer does the NCAA and schools deny athletes to profit from their skills while doing just that themselves. That was SCOTUS prime criticism and that no longer exists.

Just a few things SCOTUS should have to consider if the NLRB makes a case that reaches them:
---Public universities are non-profits regardless of the salaries of admin, etc. Gorsuch's criticism extends to non-profit organizations generally, and comparing them to for profit businesses is a bit sloppy. A sharp defense lawyer will broach that.
---Players enter a consensual scholarship agreement; from a legal standpoint, that is an obstacle; it isn't nothing and damned sure won't be to the defense team.
---Players are compensated with education, room/board, stipend, professional training and medical care. They're granted world-class facilities and stages to develop and showcase their wares for a shot at the league. Gorsuch's second point is therefore wrong, too, and the legal defense team will take that on. He may hold the opinion that the compensation is one-sided - and I'd agree - but cannot state they are not compensated. Especially when they voluntarily make the scholarship agreement.
---Why must schools be employers to compensate - rather, further compensate - players when people are compensated via contract all the time without being employees of the payer? NIL groups and businesses making deals with these athletes are not their employers. Why can't schools further compensate players via their own contractual agreements individually or collectively?
---Lastly, only men's basketball and football make money. If Kav/Gorsuch are intent on comparing schools to for-profit businesses, one must assume they'd have no problem with schools saying "we'll pay football and basketball players and we're eliminating all other sports, which includes every women's sport"....what is the court willing to break?

Those are just a few of the thoughts I have in questioning the inevitability of schools being declared employers. While I understand SCOTUS' indignance at the NCAA cartel's conduct, the judges will need to be more circumspect in a case actually addressing the future relationship of schools and athletes.

 

[NCFisher]

Interesting. You think a guy 18 to 20 years old without a fully formed brain is going to think rationally about his teammates getting 10 times more money than he is and just accept it? I don’t think anybody can judge what’s going to happen with this mess based on one year. Let’s give it 2 or 3 years and see how well it’s working. Personally I think there’s going to be a big increase in portal traffic with guys looking for better pay. Sounds like great fun figuring out who’s going to be on your favorite team from one year to the next.

A player has to accept it or become a problem and be sent packing. Even if - as in the case of the Miami alumni NIL deal - every player is getting 20-25K a year, some guys are going to get much more than 10X the money of others, in additional deals. But yes; I think most of them already understand that is how the NFL - where they want to be - works, and life generally.

Guys can hit the portal if they wish, but that's like saying 'these fish aren't eating, let's cast the same lure 50' further upstream.' Then another 50', and another.
How long does a guy keep casting to another fish before he figures out the lure is the problem? Hopefully before they burn their bridges.

I do agree the brains are still forming, which is why I think it bordering criminal to allow teens to enter the military.

 

[JCHateSteve]

I personaly do not like the NIL in its present form. To me it will cause division on a team. For example, where would a qb be without a decent ol? Football is a team sport,, it takes all working together as a team. A good OL can make a qb look better than he is. A bad Ol can make a good qb look worse than he is. You don't hear of too many OL players getting NIL deals, or at least I haven't. I just really feel it is gona cause division on a team and players playing for themselves only and not as a team.

It will absolutely do those things. Players will have to learn to coexist, just like professional players. It's a legal matter at this point. The schools/NCAA can't do anything about it.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Yes, I read that before replying - "Kavanaugh alone or in tandem" - and I remain unconvinced that universities will inevitably be decreed employers of players. The legal arguments posed will be different and the circumstances are already different; no longer does the NCAA and schools deny athletes to profit from their skills while doing just that themselves. That was SCOTUS prime criticism and that no longer exists.

Just a few things SCOTUS should have to consider if the NLRB makes a case that reaches them:
---Public universities are non-profits regardless of the salaries of admin, etc. Gorsuch's criticism extends to non-profit organizations generally, and comparing them to for profit businesses is a bit sloppy. A sharp defense lawyer will broach that.
---Players enter a consensual scholarship agreement; from a legal standpoint, that is an obstacle; it isn't nothing and damned sure won't be to the defense team.
---Players are compensated with education, room/board, stipend, professional training and medical care. They're granted world-class facilities and stages to develop and showcase their wares for a shot at the league. Gorsuch's second point is therefore wrong, too, and the legal defense team will take that on. He may hold the opinion that the compensation is one-sided - and I'd agree - but cannot state they are not compensated. Especially when they voluntarily make the scholarship agreement.
---Why must schools be employers to compensate - rather, further compensate - players when people are compensated via contract all the time without being employees of the payer? NIL groups and businesses making deals with these athletes are not their employers. Why can't schools further compensate players via their own contractual agreements individually or collectively?
---Lastly, only men's basketball and football make money. If Kav/Gorsuch are intent on comparing schools to for-profit businesses, one must assume they'd have no problem with schools saying "we'll pay football and basketball players and we're eliminating all other sports, which includes every women's sport"....what is the court willing to break?

Those are just a few of the thoughts I have in questioning the inevitability of schools being declared employers. While I understand SCOTUS' indignance at the NCAA cartel's conduct, the judges will need to be more circumspect in a case actually addressing the future relationship of schools and athletes.

I'm not sure if you're an attorney or better versed at "legalese" than me but these folks seem to think it's over the NCAA and they've got a lot of fancy legal reasoning to show why.

NCAA v. Alston.

 

[peaygolf]

Most get a Pell Grant (maybe not with NIL) of about $500 a month. They also get a “Cost of attending College” allowance of about $500 a month.

$1000 a month?
$h!+…….anybody that whines about that in college is a moran.

We had 10 meals a week and dug in couch cushions for enough change to get pizza and George Dickle. My lord these athletes today got it made…..

 

[volfaninky]

If Banks hadn’t gotten arrested and made the comments about police that he did, the. He would have one of the highest NIL values on the team. He made his choices and learned from them, but there were and will continue to be consequences.

I’m not in favor of your plan. The free market is the free market. If players are jealous, then they’re jealous. It’s in their hands to make themselves more marketable.

DeerPark, could you send me an email to bryanwebb23@gmail.com, I have a question for you. Thanks and Merry Christmas

 

[chattavol420]

As long as some players on the team are being paid and others are not receiving money, there will always be tension in the locker room. Banks is a tremendous player but wasn’t getting NIL money.
My solution is to have each NIL deal benefit the entire team. Every time a player gets an NIL deal, a portion of that amount (like a tax) is taken out and put into a pot of money that gets divided between every scholarship player on the team each month via check. It doesn’t sound like much, but I believe it would add up depending on what that percent is used. This allows the individual player with the NIL deal to receive a significant amount of money, while their teammates also benefit. This is not the pros where everyone on the roster is paid. This is college football and players couldn’t receive anything until just recently. Every player on the field is a major contributor to the success of each player around them. It only makes sense that the teammates that helped a player get a NIL deal receive part of their NIL money. Let me know everyone’s thoughts.

Most these kids aspire to play in the nfl. Are nfl co tracts evenly divided? Of course not…but somehow coaches still get a whole team to go out and play hard every week. If someone doesn’t want to play because they don’t get as much as someone else (Banks) coach will go find a player that wants a shot