No Bump, BTW

#26
#26
Vercingetorix said:
It was empty PR speak. It's the boardroom equivalent of coachspeak. It's detestable from an Orwellian "Politics and the English Language" sort of viewpoint, but I don't see how it rises to the level of actual lying when there is no serious attempt to deceive. If I get up in front of a room and say something that's BS, and everybody in the room knows that it's BS, then while I may fail as a communicator and an ethical human being, it isn't exactly lying.



I would imagine that all that is a result of the behind-the-scenes negotiating between the NCAA and the university. It's like plea bargaining -- except that unlike a prosecutor, the NCAA has to pretend that the negotiations don't actually exist, because it would compromise their act as impartial arbiters of justice. This is what happens with the prosecution and judge/jury functions are all performed by the same agent.

If they explain too much -- or anything, really -- then the public will get enough of a foothold to start demanding consistency. And the NCAA is too political an organization to be able to be consistent. They depend on the flexibility that public inscrutability provides.

(I am not saying that it isn't an embarrassing, terrible system. I am just saying why that teleconference today was so inevitably unsatisfying.)
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I'm not disagreeing with you here. I know it's a PR bs move, but at some point, some of the higher ups need to hold them accountable just like they hold the universities and college coaches accountable when they dish out horsesh*t responses and call them on it and make them wiggle.

They're inconsistent because their committees continue to evolve and change and the rule book is ever changing. I'd just like to see someone stand up to them and challenge them (Tarkanian did, but that's another story). They have no peer and do as they please.
 
#27
#27
Bigun said:
UT Admin are not the ones who discovered the bump. The NCAA was royally pissed that Pearl and the asst's weren't taken off the road immediately, so they followed them everywhere they went. Pearl never mentioned it for some reason and then them finding out by their lawyer later on didn't help Pearl.

I love Bruce Pearl and as far as I'm concerned he was the General Neyland of UT basketball, yes even above Ray Mears. But there is no excuse for what he did. Lying about hot dogs and baked beans is stupid enough, but the real disappointing thing is learning that they tried to intimidate Craft's father into backing up their story.

Seems obvious Hammy had no choice.
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Seriously. Major LULZ.

He made on freakin elite eight. ONE FREAKIN ELITE EIGHT. And you compared him to one of the greatest coaches in collegiate history, not too mention a great American?? My Lord.
 
#28
#28
zjcvols said:
Seriously. Major LULZ.

He made on freakin elite eight. ONE FREAKIN ELITE EIGHT. And you compared him to one of the greatest coaches in collegiate history, not too mention a great American?? My Lord.
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I think maybe if u would get off the bruce bashing for just a second maybe you could understand what he is saying. The way I took it was he was saying Bruce put Tennessee basketball on the map similar to what the General did. He was comparing two coaches in our university's history. Not comparing their lives outside the game in which they coached.
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#29
#29
jp1 said:
I think maybe if u would get off the bruce bashing for just a second maybe you could understand what he is saying. The way I took it was he was saying Bruce put Tennessee basketball on the map similar to what the General did. He was comparing two coaches in our university's history. Not comparing their lives outside the game in which they coached.
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that would be fine except Bruce didn't put UT basketball on the map
 
#30
#30
utvolpj said:
that would be fine except Bruce didn't put UT basketball on the map
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No, but he did put it back on the map. People tend to forget that UT had virtually a non-existent NCAA resume before Pearl arrived. If you said that you knew we would go to three Sweet 16's and an Elite 8 before he was hired then you would by lying. We sucked balls for the better part of 20 years.
 
#31
#31
OrangeBalls said:
No, but he did put it back on the map. People tend to forget that UT had virtually a non-existent NCAA resume before Pearl arrived. If you said that you knew we would go to three Sweet 16's and an Elite 8 before he was hired then you would by lying. We sucked balls for the better part of 20 years.
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UT was not non-existent in the NCAA we were streaky. And I remember some pretty successful teams at the end of the 90's but Bruce wasn't the coach so I guess they don't count
 
#32
#32
utvolpj said:
UT was not non-existent in the NCAA we were streaky. And I remember some pretty successful teams at the end of the 90's but Bruce wasn't the coach so I guess they don't count
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Would you care for me to display UT's NCAA resume before and after Pearl arrived? We got more wins in Pearl's six years than all the decades before. Nothing else needs to really be said.

Admit it, the resume was basically a joke. Any fan of any storied program laughed at UT. They still do somewhat, but at least we were playing with the big boys for awhile and beating them on occasion.
 
#33
#33
OrangeBalls said:
Would you care for me to display UT's NCAA resume before and after Pearl arrived? We got more wins in Pearl's six years than all the decades before. Nothing else needs to really be said.

Admit it, the resume was basically a joke. Any fan of any storied program laughed at UT. They still do somewhat, but at least we were playing with the big boys for awhile and beating them on occasion.
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Bruce benefited from an expanded tourney. He is not UT basketball. It existed before him and will exist long after
 
#34
#34
utvolpj said:
Bruce benefited from an expanded tourney. He is not UT basketball. It existed before him and will exist long after
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Oh yes, the expanded tourney argument. Of course, we had numerous other coaches that couldn't benefit from it. Yes, UT basketball existed before him even if not many people knew about it.

I'll give Jerry Turnip Green credit for one thing. He knew how to roll the balls out and let O'Neill's players play and got out of the way. Of course, he completely wasted a ton of talent while he was there, but that is beside the point.
 
#35
#35
It's not an argument it's a fact. Of course if your point is that Bruce > Wade then I doubt you'll get much of an argument

JG benefited from players already at UT (similar to Bruce)
 
#36
#36
OrangeBalls said:
Would you care for me to display UT's NCAA resume before and after Pearl arrived? We got more wins in Pearl's six years than all the decades before. Nothing else needs to really be said.

Admit it, the resume was basically a joke. Any fan of any storied program laughed at UT. They still do somewhat, but at least we were playing with the big boys for awhile and beating them on occasion.
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Pearl would only have made the tournament once if the NCAA tournament field was the same format as when Ray Mears was the coach.
 
#37
#37
OrangeBalls said:
Oh yes, the expanded tourney argument.
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A team used to only make the tourney if they won their conference championship. If that were the case with Pearl, how many tourney appearances would he have had? It makes you look like a complete fool to dismiss the expanded tourney as if it's of no significance.
 
#38
#38
utvolpj said:
It's not an argument it's a fact. Of course if your point is that Bruce > Wade then I doubt you'll get much of an argument

JG benefited from players already at UT (similar to Bruce)
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The only coach that is even close to the success of Bruce Pearl in the entire history of our program is Ray Mears. With that in mind I dont care how many teams were invited to the tournament.
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#39
#39
utvolpj said:
It's not an argument it's a fact. Of course if your point is that Bruce > Wade then I doubt you'll get much of an argument

JG benefited from players already at UT (similar to Bruce)
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The fact that anyone saying that Pearl was just a promoter is good stuff.
 
#42
#42
LawVol13 said:
A team used to only make the tourney if they won their conference championship. If that were the case with Pearl, how many tourney appearances would he have had? It makes you look like a complete fool to dismiss the expanded tourney as if it's of no significance.
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The only coach that you can make that argument with is Mears. Devoe made no more tournaments with the expanded tournament than he did before. I think Devoe was a good coach too.
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#43
#43
OrangeBalls said:
The fact that anyone saying that Pearl was just a promoter is good stuff.
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please quote where anyone has said that

and ftr it's not worse than people saying he is UT basketball and should be rehired once his show-cause is up
 
#44
#44
LawVol13 said:
A team used to only make the tourney if they won their conference championship. If that were the case with Pearl, how many tourney appearances would he have had? It makes you look like a complete fool to dismiss the expanded tourney as if it's of no significance.
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Oh, lookee here. It's NYYVol's and hat's little playmate. I knew you'd be along to help your little buddy out.

No one is dismissing the expanded tourney. I'm just laughing at anyone downplaying what Pearl did once given the opportunity of the expanded format.

Again, tell us how many NCAA wins UT had before Pearl got to UT and how many they had after he arrived. Hell, I'll even let you group all the years before and after the start of the expanded tourney format.

Some of you act like UT has always had this rich basketball tradition. Good Lord. Yes, our trophy case runneth over.
 
#45
#45
jp1 said:
The only coach that you can make that argument with is Mears. Devoe made no more tournaments with the expanded tournament than he did before. I think Devoe was a good coach too.
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Devoe made 5 straight NCAA tourneys. Also, the field was only 32 teams the vast majority, if not all of Mears' tenure.
 
#47
#47
OrangeBalls said:
Oh, lookee here. It's NYYVol's and hat's little playmate. I knew you'd be along to help your little buddy out.

No one is dismissing the expanded tourney. I'm just laughing at anyone downplaying what Pearl did once given the opportunity of the expanded format.

Again, tell us how many NCAA wins UT had before Pearl got to UT and how many they had after he arrived. Hell, I'll even let you group all the years before and after the start of the expanded tourney format.

Some of you act like UT has always had this rich basketball tradition. Good Lord. Yes, our trophy case runneth over.
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Pearl won more games in the tourney; I wasn't aware anyone was arguing that. In the grand scheme of accomplishments, he really only beats Jerry Green's tenure by winning one more game in the NCAA tourney. That's what you Pearl sucks find hard to understand.
 
#48
#48
utvolpj said:
please quote where anyone has said that

and ftr it's not worse than people saying he is UT basketball and should be rehired once his show-cause is up
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How about right here?

NYYVol said:
He was a mediocre coach while being a great promoter. The fact that he was the equivalent of pond scum in both his personal and professional life means something to many of us.

I will guarantee if he didn't wear orange suspenders you would be in the camp of calling him scum as well. The guy is a liar. Plain and simple.
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I've never said he should be rehired. Anyone that says that doesn't know how the system works.
 
#49
#49
LawVol13 said:
Devoe made 5 straight NCAA tourneys. Also, the field was only 32 teams the vast majority, if not all of Mears' tenure.
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You missed the point. The tournament went to an expanded format in 1985 I think. That is 26 years ago. I was not arguing that Mears wouldnt have made more tournaments with todays format. I was also pointing out that it didnt really help devoe out either.
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#50
#50
LawVol13 said:
Pearl won more games in the tourney; I wasn't aware anyone was arguing that. In the grand scheme of accomplishments, he really only beats Jerry Green's tenure by winning one more game in the NCAA tourney. That's what you Pearl sucks find hard to understand.
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No, others have downplayed his tenure like, "Aw, sh*t we didn't do much with Pearl. Won a few games."

Obviously, you don't remember the Houston, O'Neill and Peterson years very much. Of course, you were still in diapers during two of those eras so maybe that explains it.

I'll leave the sucking to the kids who trot out the same tired, infantile schtick every time. You are good at it.
 
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