No Longer Women's BB teams built on Culture

[Majors]

Whatever he has won 61 percent of his SEC games and she has won 72 percent so he must have it harder. So that would mean every season he has faced better teams in his league than she has in hers. That seems not to make sense. He is good out of conference 66 percent to her 69 percent.

Having more teams ranked in the Top 25 for men vs Women having 2 doesn’t make sense? Again, all things aren’t equal, no matter how you try to fit the square in the circle just because they are shapes. Saturday night vs yesterday is a good view of how different they are.

 

[glv98]

Syracuse under (!) Coach Q - dreadful culture.

One of the Texas colleges a few years ago, (I believe it was in the AAC) with players horribly treated by the coach - frighteningly awful culture.

A small number of universities have lots of transfers. That is usually a sign that the “culture”
isn't happy or robust.

With the few exceptions we have heard of, most college teams have players who get along well with each other and with the staff. Some are more close knit than others.

Claims that any given program has a superior culture are made without much in the way of evidence about the so-called superior school, and damned little if any for opponents.

Wasn’t there a thing at Florida with a bully coach a few yrs ago? That’s how they got Kelly Rae?

 

[Volfan2012]

Having more teams ranked in the Top 25 for men vs Women having 2 doesn’t make sense? Again, all things aren’t equal, no matter how you try to fit the square in the circle just because they are shapes. Saturday night vs yesterday is a good view of how different they are.

I don't think it has happened all five seasons so if your looking at one season appears true according to polls, but not five seasons. Five men and two women this year. The polls say you ae right the NET says it is the same. Over a period of five seasons I would say the best in conference winning percentage would prevail. Regardless with better rosters he has a 61 percent in conference winning percentage and she has a 72 percent last five seasons.

 

[mudcat1973]

That wasn’t the question….it was why did she leave.

Log jam at guard .
That's where's she Marta wanted to play .She red shirted
Plus still has a CCOVID-19 year.
So could play three for the bears.

Not your Question but when Marta and the lady Vols left to play peral jam or whatever.
They went outside the USA.
They Tennessee had shot photos for her to use to make NIL deals.
Because non Americans players can not sign deals in American.

They have to sign NIl deals outside of American.
Don't know if California pass a law for non Americans players.
But some one should.

 

[Majors]

I don't think it has happened all five seasons so if you’re looking at one season appears true according to polls, but not five seasons. Five men and two women this year. The polls say you ae right the NET says it is the same. Over a period of five seasons I would say the best in conference winning percentage would prevail. Regardless with better rosters he has a 61 percent in conference winning percentage and she has a 72 percent last five seasons.

I broke down for you earlier how the SEC for the women has drastically decreased in her tenure. Unfortunately, the same cannot be seen for the men, all things are not equal. You can spin the numbers however you feel… a better comparison, for an equality would be comparing the first five seasons to Holly.

 

[mudcat1973]

I don't think it has happened all five seasons so if your looking at one season appears true according to polls, but not five seasons. Five men and two women this year. The polls say you ae right the NET says it is the same. Over a period of five seasons I would say the best in conference winning percentage would prevail. Regardless with better rosters he has a 61 percent in conference winning percentage and she has a 72 percent last five seasons.

And she's played as tough of schedule I would Guess.

 

[Majors]

I don't think it has happened all five seasons so if you’re looking at one season appears true according to polls, but not five seasons. Five men and two women this year. The polls say you ae right the NET says it is the same. Over a period of five seasons I would say the best in conference winning percentage would prevail. Regardless with better rosters he has a 61 percent in conference winning percentage and she has a 72 percent last five seasons.

Id say banners prevail

 

[Volfan2012]

I broke down for you earlier how the SEC for the women has drastically decreased in her tenure. Unfortunately, the same cannot be seen for the men, all things are not equal. You can spin the numbers however you feel… a better comparison, for an equality would be comparing the first five seasons to Holly.

Sorry I don't remember it that way. Arkansas had some really good teams up until the last two years, Sc always, Texas A&M under Blair first two seasons she was coach. So if we believe what you say we have to say women's basketball has decreased as a whole since the SEC is rated third best conference and it is really close for second with the Big 12. I don't think the first five seasons when Holly coached were better than now LSU and SC were terrible then. Most of the other teams were the same. Tennessee had a better roster, but wasn't winning anymore games. Holly was 78 and 36 over her years as coach in the SEC .696 doubt she would be that good the last five as talking about recruiting taking a dive she totally lost it those last two seasons. Kellie has improved the roster from what she got from Holly and so has every other SEC team.

 

[Majors]

Sorry I don't remember it that way. Arkansas had some really good teams up until the last two years, Sc always, Texas A&M under Blair first two seasons she was coach. So if we believe what you say we have to say women's basketball has decreased as a whole since the SEC is rated third best conference and it is really close for second with the Big 12. I don't think the first five seasons when Holly coached were better than now LSU and SC were terrible then. Most of the other teams were the same. Tennessee had a better roster, but wasn't winning anymore games. Holly was 78 and 36 over her years as coach in the SEC .696 doubt she would be that good the last five as talking about recruiting taking a dive she totally lost it those last two seasons. Kellie has improved the roster from what she got from Holly and so has every other SEC team.

Well, here you go. We are in parentheses

Teams ranked in the top 25 starting in year 1 to now…5(NR),6 (13), 4(18) 3 (24), 2 (NR)

 

[Volfan2012]

Id say banners prevail

Whatever fits your agenda will always prevail. He has won two in 9 seasons glad we have them. Glad he finally got the players that could do the job.

 

[Volfan2012]

Well, here you go. We are in parentheses

Teams ranked in the top 25 starting in year 1 to now…5(NR),6 (13), 4(18) 3 (24), 2 (NR)

2020–21 NCAA Division I women's basketball rankings - Wikipedia five womens teams were ranked in 2020-2021 I could look up every year but it was usually at least four every year except this one thus far, Miss St getting close to ranked. Best ranking Sc number one. Best rankingh men Tennessee number 6

 

[mudcat1973]

Id say banners prevail

Do more always follow Men's basketball or Women's basketball.
So Kellie can't be expected to way better.
Times have changed Unconn does not get all top players now.
Dawn and Genoo didn't win when they first got South Carolina and UNConn
No one has won Championshis in their first five years.
Except Kim who needed more than five at Baylor Bears. I Guessing.


It even took Pat Summit was it 10 to 12 years can not recall without looking.
But I was in my time frame above.

 

[Majors]

Whatever fits your agenda will always prevail. He has won two in 9 seasons glad we have them. Glad he finally got the players that could do the job.

My agenda? I don’t compare genders results because they both play/coach basketball. Not sure that’s agenda but rather reality.

 

[Volfan2012]

Well, here you go. We are in parentheses

Teams ranked in the top 25 starting in year 1 to now…5(NR),6 (13), 4(18) 3 (24), 2 (NR)

Tennessee is still the winningest team in the conference in the last five seasons other than SC.

 

[knoxvol52]

Do more always follow Men's basketball or Women's basketball.
So Kellie can't be expected to way better.
Times have changed Unconn does not get all top players now.
Dawn and Genoo didn't win when they first got South Carolina and UNConn
No one has won Championshis in their first five years.
Except Kim who needed more than five at Baylor Bears. I Guessing.


It even took Pat Summit was it 10 to 12 years can not recall without looking.
But I was in my time frame above.

Once again comparing the Men vs the Women..

Good grief.. focus on the state of Tennessee Lady Vols vs the other Ladies teams in the country. That should be the conversation..

 

[Volfan2012]

My agenda? I don’t compare genders results because they both play/coach basketball. Not sure that’s agenda but rather reality.

On their level of play why not? What your saying is that all the men's teams are good the last five seasons and most of the women's teams in the league were bad. Your saying every team in the SEC that Barnes played the last five season were great. Then your saying almost all the teams that Tennessee women played were bad and thus they won more. If that is what you believe I move on cause on their level of play as women the SEC winning outside of their conference is 79 percent of games. So with that type of winning percentage we have to say all of womens basketball is bad not just the SEC and we would have to conclude it has been that way for all five seasons Coach Harper has been here.

 

[Majors]

Tennessee is still the winningest team in the conference in the last five seasons other than SC.

Well there’s that. And then Kim arrived

 

[madtownvol]

The era of Back Pat, and LadyVols forever as an emphasis on recruiting and team-building probably has little value in today's social media and NIL rules.

Rick Pitano recent interview stated it well: They are professional athletes. Get professionally paid. It’s not going away. You can’t try to get loopholes, because they take you to court. That’s why I say — so I’m not knocking the NCAA enforcement staff — they’re going to get taken to court every time they try to make a rule.

So it’s a tough time in college basketball right now. And for us, you can’t really build programs and a culture because everybody leaves.”


Only a few teams representing universities that are not the top tier re academics have top-teams annually based on "culture/family" Texas, A&M, Baylor, LSU, USC, UCLA, Ohio State, UConn, ND, SC have invested millions to hire coaches, and "hire/recruit players.

as a fan, much less interest in all professional sports, now women's basketball because so many come and leave.

Coaches whining about NIL and transfer portals is getting very tiresome.The current system is probably a little too wild, wild west--particularly for football and men's college ball.

But, yes coaching was easier when scholarship athletes were indentured servants. Creating a culture where players want to stay and not always seek to maximize their market value is about the only mechanism coaches have to build a program with a relative degree of stability.
Rickea could have gone anywhere she wanted , and gotten more $ but she chose to remain a LVFL

 

[Volfan2012]

My final thought on all of this posting is your belief has to be she can't coach or recruit. She can't do either even though in the league we play she has the second most wins over five seasons. For me it is she is a good coach without the players to beat all the teams she continues to play that are out recruiting her. I accept she can't recruit as her big fault. I just do not accept she wouldn't be able to coach to a high degree of success a team made up of or equivalent to South Carolina's team of All Americans. The fact she can't meet the recruiting standard should be the reason for a change not what she has done with what she was able to recruit.

 

[Volfan2012]

Well there’s that. And then Kim arrived

My final thought on all of this posting is your belief has to be she can't coach or recruit. She can't do either even though in the league we play she has the second most wins over five seasons. For me it is she is a good coach without the players to beat all the teams she continues to play that are out recruiting her. I accept she can't recruit as her big fault. I just do not accept she wouldn't be able to coach to a high degree of success a team made up of or equivalent to South Carolina's team of All Americans. The fact she can't meet the recruiting standard should be the reason for a change not what she has done with what she was able to recruit.

Kim's in conference two season record is up for some scrutiny and her loss to Tennessee in the tourney. She is getting better players and won the title when SC choked away a game they should've won easily. Utah makes one free throw they don't get that chance.

 

[Rooster1]

Meant to add earlier, the irony of Rick Freakin Pitino bemoaning culture is like, wtf? Google him children, it ain't pretty. His best days were the many times he got caught cheating everywhere he coached, including Kentucky. Federal bribery charges involving recruits. The big one was his staff providing prostitutes to players in their dorm! So yeah, let's discuss culture Rick.

This.

 

[Volfan2012]

Coaches whining about NIL and transfer portals is getting very tiresome.The current system is probably a little too wild, wild west--particularly for football and men's college ball.

But, yes coaching was easier when scholarship athletes were indentured servants. Creating a culture where players want to stay and not always seek to maximize their market value is about the only mechanism coaches have to build a program with a relative degree of stability.
Rickea could have gone anywhere she wanted , and gotten more $ but she chose to remain a LVFL

So we can blame the supreme court and congress for not making the NCAA anti trust exempt. We also need to find that Judges know nothing allowing more transfers for players when they already had a free one now they have two. A lot of people are greedy and all this from the courts and congress gave all these amateur athletes rights probably best left alone. I think it would've been ok if we could've had a standard allowed an athlete to make at least a reasonable amount, but with a cap which of course is now illegal. One transfer free seemed to be enough.

Now it is to late to change what has been done no one willing to back down Supreme Court or NCAA. NCAA pushing to hard for some old rules to stand just makes the situation worse. Saying a player can't transfer got them two instead of one. Every time the NCAA opens their mouth someone sticks a foot in it.

I see it going total free agent, but we better be able to sign four year contracts or players can get mad and leave in the middle of a game. A phone call offering more money will be totally legal at any time.

 

[madtownvol]

My final thought on all of this posting is your belief has to be she can't coach or recruit. She can't do either even though in the league we play she has the second most wins over five seasons. For me it is she is a good coach without the players to beat all the teams she continues to play that are out recruiting her. I accept she can't recruit as her big fault. I just do not accept she wouldn't be able to coach to a high degree of success a team made up of or equivalent to South Carolina's team of All Americans. The fact she can't meet the recruiting standard should be the reason for a change not what she has done with what she was able to recruit.

My final thought on all of this posting is your belief has to be she can't coach or recruit. She can't do either even though in the league we play she has the second most wins over five seasons. For me it is she is a good coach without the players to beat all the teams she continues to play that are out recruiting her. I accept she can't recruit as her big fault. I just do not accept she wouldn't be able to coach to a high degree of success a team made up of or equivalent to South Carolina's team of All Americans. The fact she can't meet the recruiting standard should be the reason for a change not what she has done with what she was able to recruit.

Kim's in conference two season record is up for some scrutiny and her loss to Tennessee in the tourney. She is getting better players and won the title when SC choked away a game they should've won easily. Utah makes one free throw they don't get that chance.

You are forgetting though, that ALL the games that Kellie has won as LVHC, by some mystical negavol logic, simply don't count. Wins are losses and losses are the destruction of everything that Pat built.

Kellie could technically win the NC this year and it would not count because Kim Mulkey did it in year 1 @ LSU (which is now the minimum standard of coaching competency).

 

[Volfan2012]

You are forgetting though, that ALL the games that Kellie has won as LVHC, by some mystical negavol logic, simply don't count. Wins are losses and losses are the destruction of everything that Pat built.

Kellie could technically win the NC this year and it would not count because she should have done that years ago.

Some credit the wins, but all the teams were so bad all five years that she should've won more. 72 percent should've been more like 95 percent while the teams in SEC men's were so good that Barnes 61 percent is really more like 85 percent cause everyone was so good just beating the ones he beat was way beyond what was expected. I'm not comparing men to womens basketball just winning on their level of play. Found out 72 doesn't beat 61 should've paid more attention to math.

 

[Rooster1]

You are forgetting though, that ALL the games that Kellie has won as LVHC, by some mystical negavol logic, simply don't count. Wins are losses and losses are the destruction of everything that Pat built.

Kellie could technically win the NC this year and it would not count because Kim Mulkey did it in year 1 @ LSU (which is now the minimum standard of coaching competency).

Year 2, but I get your drift Madtownvol.