No stars or angels on a Christmas tree, that is religious symbolism.

#101
#101
Ed12111 said:
I agree with this. I'm referring to the idea that people can point to any one topic (taxes, Separation of church and state, anything really) and claim it's what the founders wanted. The founders had differing views on everything. That said, Jefferson's wall of separation was meant as a two way wall. Some people claim the separation of church and state was meant to keep state out of church, but that's not what Jefferson wanted.
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Luckily, the founders put their collective down on paper. Jefferson's views were shot down in Virginia, and somewhat so in the Constitution itself. As a collective, however, they came together to put their life into a document or two that enables what we have today.

Mostly, when people refer to the "founders," they refer to the collective, not the individual. One of the major, and best, aspects of the founders was their ability to put aside differences in thought for the greater good.

Jefferson had wild views, for the time period, on humanity and even gun "rights." He set them aside for consolidation. So, when I say the "Founders," I'm not saying they were all one mind, just that they had a collective conscious that came together when needed.

Jefferson was one of the brightest men that ever walked this rock, but he was also bright enough to know that his views were not of his time. Sometimes, you really do have to go with the average views exhibited by the population. He knew this, and he did, even though it was against his own views.
 
#103
#103
Ed12111 said:
This is what I don't get. There is no founders intent. This nation was formed by many people a lot of whom had very different ideas. Not to mention, the great amount of change in the past couple hundred years.
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I think the Constitution clearly shows a "founders intent." I think they did more than just show their intention. I think they put together a set of laws that everyone has to live by. The problem is some of their laws have been taken out of context.
 
#104
#104
fl0at said:
Mostly, when people refer to the "founders," they refer to the collective, not the individual. One of the major, and best, aspects of the founders was their ability to put aside differences in thought for the greater good.
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Then too at the constitutional convention there was so much disagreement and discord that some were at the point of challenging others to duels until Ben Franklin asked for and recieved the floor and uttered words to the effect; 'we are now going to pause for prayer, otherwise I'm leaving and won't be back.'

They did so and after that they worked out their differences, agreed on the wording of the constitution and signed it.

I think of the founding fathers as those who were signatories to the declaration in independence and the constitution and furthermore they were generally unamimous in their attitude that this nation be founded on Christian principles.

BTW, Thomas Jefferson did write in a letter to a colleague late in life that he subscribed to the words of Jesus and did consider himself to be a Christian, he said he had never found a better teaching.

One of the things we have to be thankful for was so many men at one point in history, who were so educated, intelligent and of such great integrity could all be gathered together and indeed found the greatest nation on Earth, I belief they had divine help and since they did ask for it at the contitutional convention, I submit that is one reason that it happened.
 
#105
#105
Ihatethebuckeyes said:
I think the Constitution clearly shows a "founders intent." I think they did more than just show their intention. I think they put together a set of laws that everyone has to live by. The problem is some of their laws have been taken out of context.
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It was Henry Kissenger who said; "what is illegal we do immediately, what is unconstitutional takes longer."

An old friend of mine was his commander when he was a corporal and was told to give him a job in which he wouldn't get in trouble, so he made him a dining room orderly (the guy who wipes crumbs and spilled drinks off the tables), the troops promply dubbed him "chow hall Hank," after taking a leave of absense to visit the Rockefellers and other oligarchs he returned to the area with the title of; "commander of the military district" in post war Germany.

Proving once again it's who you know and not what you know when considering politics.
 
#107
#107
gsvol said:
And you are all no brain.
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On which ridiculous blog did you find this one?

BTW, I got you a Christmas present

200.jpg


Can I get an address?
 
#108
#108
Define Christian principles and how they differ from an Atheist/agnostic/Jew/Buddhist's principles.
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#109
#109
fl0at said:
I'd say he always has a point. He isn't mindless, not by a long shot. His points, however, are often... for a specific subset of the population.
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Well they aren't meant for any specific subset of the population and although they may only resonate with some subset, there is no shortage of those who can't address the message other than to shoot the messenger, so to speak. :thumbsup:
 
#110
#110
VOLatile said:
Define Christian principles and how they differ from an Atheist/agnostic/Jew/Buddhist's principles.
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Define atheist(I don't cap the A as you do)/agnostic/Jew/Buddhist principles and how they differ from Christian principles.!

I will say this much, Judeo - Christian principles differ somewhat because they place man as being superior to animals and they do not condone sexual deviency.
 
#111
#111
gsvol said:
Define atheist(I don't cap the A as you do)/agnostic/Jew/Buddhist principles and how they differ from Christian principles.!

I will say this much, Judeo - Christian principles differ somewhat because they place man as being superior to animals and they do not condone sexual deviency.
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This word "condone." I don't think it means what you think it means.
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#114
#114
VOLatile said:
Define Christian principles and how they differ from an Atheist/agnostic/Jew/Buddhist's principles.
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Volatile, you are missing the point of christianity. No where in the Bible does it even hint that a Christian is any better a person than a non believer. We all suck. I am sure there are non believers out there and people of other religions who actually sin less than some actual Christians. The only difference is a Christian knows it is not his deeds that change anything but Christ who did everything. Every other religion is based on what the person does, Christianity is based on what Christ did.

Debating principles is meaningless. I try to be the best person I can be and I try to live by the word of God because it is what I should do as a Christian. But nothing I do as a Christian will gain me entrance into heaven. It will simply come down to whether Christ says he knows me or he doesn't.
 
#115
#115
gsvol said:
Define atheist(I don't cap the A as you do)/agnostic/Jew/Buddhist principles and how they differ from Christian principles.!

I will say this much, Judeo - Christian principles differ somewhat because they place man as being superior to animals and they do not condone sexual deviency.
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There is no difference, other than the belief that there is no god. That's why I don't understand "this country was founded on Christian principles." Don't you just mean that this country was founded by Christians so we all have to be Christian?
 
#116
#116
lawgator1 said:
This word "condone." I don't think it means what you think it means.
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Do you understand the word to mean: "to overlook, disregard without protest or censure??

There is a vast difference between tolerating something and praising it.

Praising homosexuality gave us the nazi fascist regime headed up by Adolph Hitler.



emainvol said:
That's the best you can do? Come on, looney, hit me with some cartoons.
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drag20che20enlist20now20us20army.jpg


Therenow, happy you imbecile?





VOLatile said:
There is no difference, other than the belief that there is no god. That's why I don't understand "this country was founded on Christian principles." Don't you just mean that this country was founded by Christians so we all have to be Christian?
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The country was founded on Christian principles with the freedom to believe whatever you wish, is that simple enough for your ignorant mind.
 
#117
#117
gsvol said:
Do you understand the word to mean: "to overlook, disregard without protest or censure??

There is a vast difference between tolerating something and praising it.

Praising homosexuality gave us the nazi fascist regime headed up by Adolph Hitler.





drag20che20enlist20now20us20army.jpg


Therenow, happy you imbecile?







The country was founded on Christian principles with the freedom to believe whatever you wish, is that simple enough for your ignorant mind.
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Eh, your whole act seems pretty contrived. You are like a bad bumper sticker with a keyboard.
 
#119
#119
Ihatethebuckeyes said:
Volatile, you are missing the point of christianity. No where in the Bible does it even hint that a Christian is any better a person than a non believer. We all suck. I am sure there are non believers out there and people of other religions who actually sin less than some actual Christians. The only difference is a Christian knows it is not his deeds that change anything but Christ who did everything. Every other religion is based on what the person does, Christianity is based on what Christ did.

Debating principles is meaningless. I try to be the best person I can be and I try to live by the word of God because it is what I should do as a Christian. But nothing I do as a Christian will gain me entrance into heaven. It will simply come down to whether Christ says he knows me or he doesn't.
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I agree with a good part of that.

Upon believing in Christ however, you should see a difference in that person. Your works after the fact are not payment for sin, but believing in Christ should make you want to change. As you said it does not make you perfect from that point on, but it does mean you have a standard to strive for.
 
#120
#120
DinkinFlicka said:
Screw it. Let's just convert into a papacy.

I don't agree with this guy in the article, and I certainly don't find a star on top of a tree symbolic, but what you posted is kind of silly.

Sure, we were founded on Christian beliefs, but the percentage of Christians in this country IS slowly deteriorating as the years go by. Progress exists for a reason.

I do not favor the concept of an entire nation subscribing to a specific religion. It never ends well.
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Before I say anything, are you saying that people going away from Christianity is progress?
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