North Korea set to launch another missile

#101
#101
KB5252 said:
When these words came out of Bush's mouth I thought it was a mistake. Rhetoric is very important, especially when you have limited diplomatic channels with countries you have issues with. This is another reason I believe Obama made a mistake in being slow to react on the Iranian uprising.
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I'm not in the group that thinks Obama's lack of more harsh wording regarding the Iranian situation was a mistake. I've been OK with how he has addressed that situation for the most part.
 
#102
#102
TennTradition said:
I'm not in the group that thinks Obama's lack of more harsh wording regarding the Iranian situation was a mistake. I've been OK with how he has addressed that situation for the most part.
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I am satisfied too for the most part. My only problem is i think he was just a little late and a little soft in his reaction. It made it appear to me that he was playing catch up to Europe's condemnation (as well as others in America). America as the bastion of freedom should always take the lead in this respect.

In other words it wasn't so much how he reacted but when he reacted. I believe I understand his reasoning, not wanting to offend those he will most likely have to work out diplomatic issues with. At the same time Obama needs to understand they were going to be offended if we said anything about what they consider to be private Iranian matters.
 
#103
#103
KB5252 said:
I am satisfied too for the most part. My only problem is i think he was just a little late and a little soft in his reaction. It made it appear to me that he was playing catch up to Europe's condemnation (as well as others in America). America as the bastion of freedom should always take the lead in this respect.

In other words it wasn't so much how he reacted but when he reacted. I believe I understand his reasoning, not wanting to offend those he will most likely have to work out diplomatic issues with. At the same time Obama needs to understand they were going to be offended if we said anything about what they consider to be private Iranian matters.
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Seriously, this is the heart of what I have a problem with those calling for the harsher rhetoric earlieer.

When has he ever stated his reasoning was not to offend? This is nothing more than opinion, mostly by those on the right that think Bush had it right with Iran this whole time. And it is being run with like it is Obama's stated policy. Obama has never said he didn't want to offend, not once, so labeling it his reasoning is absurd. All he has said was he wanted to wait and see how this played out before he said anything. When the guns and violence against the protestors started, then he upped the tone about the US's stance on the issue.
 
#104
#104
rjd970 said:
Seriously, this is the heart of what I have a problem with those calling for the harsher rhetoric earlieer.

When has he ever stated his reasoning was not to offend? This is nothing more than opinion, mostly by those on the right that think Bush had it right with Iran this whole time. And it is being run with like it is Obama's stated policy. Obama has never said he didn't want to offend, not once, so labeling it his reasoning is absurd. All he has said was he wanted to wait and see how this played out before he said anything. When the guns and violence against the protestors started, then he upped the tone about the US's stance on the issue.
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I think Bush's policy was too harsh, when negotiators came to him and told him they thought they were making some headway he did not think it would go anywhere and did not choose to build on the headway made. Even if he was right it wouldn't have hurt to see where it was going to go, then he made the Axis of Evil remark and set the whole process back. Huge mistake IMO.

I think this is where we see things differently on the issue of Obama's response. I saw reports of violent clashes on protesters for two days before Obama came out and said anything about the violence by the Iranian regime, other leaders did.

Obama had reached out withan olive branch to try and bring the Iranians back to the table (rightfully so IMO). It is rather naive to think that Obama's slow reaction wasn't a big factor in this. If his true intent was to see what developed he would have condemned the actions much sooner than he did.
 
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#105
#105
I didn't take Obama's slow response to be an attempt not to offend. I saw it as not giving the Iranian regime an enemy in a spotlight to unite against. The only thing that could have cooled things down in a hurry for the Iranian government would have been uniting the Iranians against a common enemy. If they felt that we were trying to exert a little too much influence, the protesters may have bought the line of "death to America...who is meddling...and causing this." Instead - they largely ignored it, and I think because they were given no evidence, no harsh rhetoric, no soundbites from Obama to push the idea forward. The comments he did make were measured and made in a way that it would be hard for the Iranian regime to sell the idea that this was all done by America against Islam.
 
#106
#106
rjd970 said:
Seriously, this is the heart of what I have a problem with those calling for the harsher rhetoric earlieer.

When has he ever stated his reasoning was not to offend? This is nothing more than opinion, mostly by those on the right that think Bush had it right with Iran this whole time.

Disagree - I don't think Bush had it right either.

And it is being run with like it is Obama's stated policy. Obama has never said he didn't want to offend, not once, so labeling it his reasoning is absurd.

Yes it is opinion based on how he's operated so far. Couple that with his full steam ahead, no changes on plans for direct talks and diplomatic interaction to begin as soon as next week and the opinion has merit.


All he has said was he wanted to wait and see how this played out before he said anything.

No - he said he didn't want his words to be used to suggest that the US was somehow behind this. He didn't want to be seen as "meddling". On the face that is a weak argument and has been discredited by his own commentary in the Press Conf of the other day when he indicated his comments (before the new tone) were already being mistranslated and used against him. Now that he made a mildly strong statement, Iran is setting new conditions on talks.


When the guns and violence against the protestors started, then he upped the tone about the US's stance on the issue.
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I'll reserve further replies on this topic to the other thread - don't want to derail this one anymore than I already have. :hi:
 
#107
#107
TennTradition said:
I didn't take Obama's slow response to be an attempt not to offend. I saw it as not giving the Iranian regime an enemy in a spotlight to unite against. The only thing that could have cooled things down in a hurry for the Iranian government would have been uniting the Iranians against a common enemy. If they felt that we were trying to exert a little too much influence, the protesters may have bought the line of "death to America...who is meddling...and causing this." Instead - they largely ignored it, and I think because they were given no evidence, no harsh rhetoric, no soundbites from Obama to push the idea forward. The comments he did make were measured and made in a way that it would be hard for the Iranian regime to sell the idea that this was all done by America against Islam.
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Very true but saying something to the effect that European leaders did would have had the same effect and he would have looked like the leader of the free world and not an after thought. I know in the end we are talking about a couple of days difference at the most, maybe not a huge deal in the grand scheme of things but still important IMO.

I find it hard to believe that his seeking to hold talks with the Iranian government did not play a significant role. It certainly was not the only reason for Obama's cautious response but it was a factor as I see it.
 
#108
#108
Yes it is opinion based on how he's operated so far. Couple that with his full steam ahead, no changes on plans for direct talks and diplomatic interaction to begin as soon as next week and the opinion has merit.
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We agree to disagree on this. I don't think this opinion has merit.

Nevertheless, claiming this view as stated policy by the Obama administration is completely wrong.

No - he said he didn't want his words to be used to suggest that the US was somehow behind this. He didn't want to be seen as "meddling". On the face that is a weak argument and has been discredited by his own commentary in the Press Conf of the other day when he indicated his comments (before the new tone) were already being mistranslated and used against him. Now that he made a mildly strong statement, Iran is setting new conditions on talks.
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I still contend that his "changing" commentary has to do with the changing conditions of the protests, and if everything was like it was last weekend, he would still be silent on the whole thing.

But like I said, I don't think we are going to change each others mind here and we will have to agree to disagree.
 
#110
#110
I came and read this thread afrter I saw a news alert on TV and I learned a lot.

Monterey, you're possibly the most underrated member of this board.

Anyway, figured I'd pop it back on up.
 
#111
#111
Business said:
I came and read this thread afrter I saw a news alert on TV and I learned a lot.

Monterey, you're possibly the most underrated member of this board.

Anyway, figured I'd pop it back on up.
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He's not underrated by me...I love me some MontereyVol....errr...NorfolkVol....errr.... ChesapeakeVol...

...and before someone accuses me of being drunk, it's 11 AM here...then again, it is Independence Day :)

Happy 4th, all.
 
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#112
#112
Business said:
I came and read this thread afrter I saw a news alert on TV and I learned a lot.

Monterey, you're possibly the most underrated member of this board.

Anyway, figured I'd pop it back on up.
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Thanks, But really I'm just a blowhard with a computer :)
Some of you guys would laugh your @sses off if you would have been able to witness me buying a home for the first time. Locked in rate my @ss!


TennTradition said:
He's not underrated by me...I love me some MontereyVol....errr...NorfolkVol....errr.... ChesapeakeVol...

...and before someone accuses me of being drunk, it's 11 AM here...then again, it is Independence Day :)

Happy 4th, all.
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LittleCreekVolLivinginCheseapeake? Too much?
 
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