nortwestern football players looking to join a union

#76
#76
By the way, if someone wins a court case stating that a not-for-profit school is required to compensate athletes that bring in revenue, expect a line of attorneys at the doors of your local public high schools.
 
#77
#77
onevol74 said:
They have no employment status.
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The universities do not want to categorize them for obvious purpose, which is what the students from NW are now trying to secure.

They receive benefits for participating in a voluntary program for their development. They choose on their own free will to participate. There is nothing prohibiting them from taking other paths to their goals. To view it otherwise would be "entitlement."
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Sorry, but voluntary has nothing to do with it nor entitlement. The universities have responsibilities just like everyone else.

Your statement is the equivalent of me telling you that you are "entitled" if you receive more than $1 a day.... "entitlement" usually refers to someone wanting something for nothing. The ability to get your true market value is not "entitlement" unless you are from 1950s Soviet Union.

The pay to play thing is funny as well... military academies pay their players. :eek:lol:

To me this not a pay to play thing that these players are doing, it's to force the hand of the corrupt NCAA and schools to allow normal open market freedom just like everything else works.
 
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#79
#79
BUBear said:
By the way, if someone wins a court case stating that a not-for-profit school is required to compensate athletes that bring in revenue, expect a line of attorneys at the doors of your local public high schools.
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Not really the same situation at all, in general, but individual states and circumstances can dictate. imho

I really don't see that is the real issue.

The problem is real simple, why are schools not treating athlete scholarship students like normal students?
 
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#80
#80
So if the ncaa would lift all restrictions on student athletes being able transfer to other schools without penalty then you would see need to "pay" them..is that what you are saying?
 
#81
#81
Rocky_Top_Vol13 said:
So if the ncaa would lift all restrictions on student athletes being able transfer to other schools without penalty then you would see need to "pay" them..is that what you are saying?
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You wouldn't need to pay them, but if a school, booster or other wanted to... then why not? This is how everything else works in every other industry including students outside of the athlete world. I know it might surprise people but actually most student on athletic scholarships can receive money, or work, or other.... of course somehow this does not pertain to the big boy leagues and big boy sports... I wonder why? Not really a question, we know the answer... control and $$$$.

Like I said it's not directly a pay to play issue... it's a control issue i.e. freedom.
 
#82
#82
LSU-SIU said:
You wouldn't need to pay them, but if a school, booster or other wanted to... then why not? This is how everything else works in every other industry including students outside of the athlete world. I know it might surprise people but actually most student on athletic scholarships can receive money, or work, or other.... of course somehow this does not pertain to the big boy leagues and big boy sports... I wonder why? Not really a question, we know the answer... control and $$$$.

Like I said it's not directly a pay to play issue... it's a control issue i.e. freedom.
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Your argument is seriously falling apart. Just let boosters do as they please huh? If that's the case then why have any rules or regulations what so ever governing any college sport. Hell, why you're at it, why not throw away the rule book when the games are being played too. Too many penalties anyway...just slows the games down....amiright....
 
#83
#83
Rocky_Top_Vol13 said:
Your argument is seriously falling apart.
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I would say most of this is a fact. Whether or not they are "employee" or "contractor" is really immaterial, but they are one or the other... which is why the schools want to classify them as students, which does not real exist.

Just let boosters do as they please huh? If that's the case then why have any rules or regulations what so ever governing any college sport.
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Many sports in college boosters can give the athletes money, so your argument makes zero sense. The rule has nothing to do with what is taking place inside of the 4 corners of the field of play.

Hell, why you're at it, why not throw away the rule book when the games are being played too. Too many penalties anyway...just slows the games down....amiright....
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Who said anything about that, that would be exactly what the NCAA was setup to do... regulate the play of college sports.

You are very confused. Most sports and most players that receive college scholarships can actually receiver booster money or even paid jobs from the college.
 
#84
#84
You just flip flop back and forth from focusing on treating student athletes like any other student or calling them employees or whatever. The fact of the matter is that the student athlete is compensated very well for their contributions to their university. There is no need to change the current system except for the fact that a couple of players are feeling butt hurt over a sense of entitlement....
 
#85
#85
Rocky_Top_Vol13 said:
You just flip flop back and forth from focusing on treating student athletes like any other student or calling them employees or whatever.
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It does not matter how I classify them. However they are classified it's a problem. LIke the guy said on ESPN, "this was a long time coming".

The fact of the matter is that the student athlete is compensated very well for their contributions to their university.
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That is an opinion. Since there is no open market it's a self serving statement. The NCAA would never want your opinion because they would lose an action as soon as you said they are being "compensated", you don't understand what is going on... you are actually proving the students point.

There is no need to change the current system except for the fact that a couple of players are feeling butt hurt over a sense of entitlement....
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Your opinion is going to mean very little in about 5 years, all this is going away in it's present form, just a matter of time. This is not the only legal action in the works.

See your problem is you don't understand, just because you can do something does not make it a legal action.

Okay, setup a system, the schools agree with the NCAA to set the salaries of Head Coaches at $50,000 a year and they can't transfer without sitting out a year. I'll give you about 1 week before all HC join a suit for racketeering, fraud, blacklisting, and collusion.

You do know price-fixing and collusion can get you indicted right?

In any other industry these people would have been locked away a long time ago.
 
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#86
#86
Ever wonder why no one really cares about the minor leagues in baseball...well if this continues down this path all major college sports (football, basketball, baseball) you will find out first hand. It will erode what few good things that are left in college sports and whats really sad is that you can't see that, or choose to ignore it... For the sake of college football I hope nothing comes of this lawsuit and in my best Forrest Gump voice... "and that's all I have to say bout that".
 
#87
#87
Rocky_Top_Vol13 said:
Ever wonder why no one really cares about the minor leagues in baseball...well if this continues down this path all major college sports (football, basketball, baseball) you will find out first hand. It will erode what few good things that are left in college sports and whats really sad is that you can't see that, or choose to ignore it... For the sake of college football I hope nothing comes of this lawsuit and in my best Forrest Gump voice... "and that's all I have to say bout that".
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Hey I wish things were simple, unfortunately college football and basketball went pro a long time ago.

I actually agree with you in part, it will effect things greatly... but just because I have a self-serving interest doesn't make it legally correct to continue as is.

This is not going to end well for the NCAA and the schools, the longer they wait the worse it will be.
 
#88
#88
No employment contract
No wages
No taxes paid by players on benefits
No backing from NLRB

NO UNION
 
#89
#89
LSU-SIU said:
Hey I wish things were simple, unfortunately college football and basketball went pro a long time ago.

I actually agree with you in part, it will effect things greatly... but just because I have a self-serving interest doesn't make it legally correct to continue as is.

This is not going to end well for the NCAA and the schools, the longer they wait the worse it will be.
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I really do not have a dog in the fight that you are proposing. But if you win your argument the players will be the losers. Because not many consumers of athletic events are going to put out big money to go see farm and developmental league games. It is like baseball farm leagues often operate at a loss.

The players might think that the schools will draw big dollars from the TV contracts and they do. But that money is not profit. It is put back into resources that provide for optimal opportunity for players to develop their potential.

Maybe these players can research the potential television ratings and revenue of Southern League Baseball. Maybe they can research the living and travel conditions of those farm league players versus the luxurious conditions they have now.

I can tell you who might play in the NFL in a couple of years because of the structure of college football. I can not name one player in a baseball or hockey farm league who may be a star in a couple of years.

I do see the schools eliminating athletics if it becomes too big of a liability and putting their resources where they are more aligned with educational goals.
 
#90
#90
T-TownVol said:
No employment contract
No wages
No taxes paid by players on benefits
No backing from NLRB

NO UNION
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Not having these is actually a problem.

I bring someone on.... they mow lawns for my business... I bring on 20 more. I do not pay them wages but give them housing and food instead. No taxes are paid.

= big problem
Are they employees? Most probably in most US States, Yes.

Are you possibility in trouble as the employer? Most probably if someone wanted to pursue since there are probably all kinds of statute and regulations being broken in the process.
 
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#91
#91
onevol74 said:
I really do not have a dog in the fight that you are proposing. But if you win your argument the players will be the losers.
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Well, I would say at least they have control their own outcome. I will never say as a collective group they will be better... but that is kind of immaterial. imho
 
#92
#92
LSU-SIU said:
Hey I wish things were simple, unfortunately college football and basketball went pro a long time ago.

I actually agree with you in part, it will effect things greatly... but just because I have a self-serving interest doesn't make it legally correct to continue as is.

This is not going to end well for the NCAA and the schools, the longer they wait the worse it will be.
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Another simple answer to this is the schools have no money without consumers through tickets and media contracts. Are the players or their union going to sue me when I stop buying tickets or watching their events on TV? In this economy and life in general sports are not that important. And considering how many Super Bowl tickets that are available 4 days out I am not the only one who feels that way.
 
#93
#93
onevol74 said:
Are the players or their union going to sue me when I stop buying tickets or watching their events on TV?
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Well, anyone can sue anyone for anything really, that to me seems like quite a bizarre claim to start with.

The problem you are having is trying to act like the "players" in college sports are collective... of course in this specific action that is kind of what they are doing but at the end of the day.... the status of these players need to be determine... I contend it doesn't matter what the determination is... it will eventually mean the end of how it works today.

... whether we like it like that or not
 
#95
#95
Wether they go union or not doesn't really matter, and I think the scholly and all the benifits the players are getting now should be ALL the money the universities pay out for these student athletes, BUT!!! I also think if said student athlete gets offered money for an autograph or someone ,wether a booster or whoever gives them money or buys them a meal then that is between the athlete and the individual and is nobodies business. OR if the schools maybe instead of a flat across the board dollar amount for every athlete have some type of bonus program set up for certain achievements like wins plus a certain gpa, or maybe something like no bonus until your junior year and base it off of achievements and or grades from previous year...I don't know. . I do think there needs to be some kind of change but it needs to be fair so as to not seperate the fact that these players are still students too.
 
#98
#98
LSU-SIU said:
Not having these is actually a problem.

I bring someone on.... they mow lawns for my business... I bring on 20 more. I do not pay them wages but give them housing and food instead. No taxes are paid.

= big problem
Are they employees? Most probably in most US States, Yes.

Are you possibility in trouble as the employer? Most probably if someone wanted to pursue since there are probably all kinds of statute and regulations being broken in the process.
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You are reaching WAAAY to high to try and get a comparison......NLRB has already looked at this and said that they are in NO WAY employees......case closed!
 
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