Not to be outdone in the race to advance the U.S. as a (so-called) Christian nation, Oklahoma says the Bible is to be included in the curriculum

#127
#127
lawgator1 said:

So last week the Louisiana legislature passed a bill requiring that the Ten Commandments be posted in every classroom. In the race to the bottom demonstrating an utter lack of understanding of even the most rudimentary understanding of and respect for the concept of separation of church and state, Oklahoma announces that the Bible is going to be part of the curriculum.



So take that, Louisiana! Oklahoma says it can be even more unconstitutional and repressive of religious liberty than you! (Cue banjo music here).
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If there were a list of 50 things that this country should be concerned about, this would be #116.
 
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#128
#128
hog88 said:
Yep, the establishment clause forbids the federal government from establishing a state religion. Doesn't say a damn thing about the states.
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I think you misunderstand the bill of rights. By your reasoning the states would be free to have all the gun control laws they want. The idea was that rights not reserved by the federal government would be left to the states. By reserving rights in religion, the states are bound as well by that as well. The same for the second amendment.
 
#129
#129
jvol1 said:
I think you misunderstand the bill of rights. By your reasoning the states would be free to have all the gun control laws they want. The idea was that rights not reserved by the federal government would be left to the states. By reserving rights in religion, the states are bound as well by that as well. The same for the second amendment.
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That's not how the FFs meant for it to be implemented. I get it, that's a popular belief one that I subscribed to myself until I started researching the subject.
 
#130
#130
hog88 said:
That's not how the FFs meant for it to be implemented. I get it, that's a popular belief one that I subscribed to myself until I started researching the subject.
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Read the federalist papers. That's exactly how it was intended.
 
#131
#131
jvol1 said:
Read the federalist papers. That's exactly how it was intended.
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The Federalists were opposed to including a Bill of Rights they even considered it dangerous. They also were pushing for a strong totally encompassing central government. I have read the Federalist papers and they are down right scary, thankfully they didn't prevail. It wasn't until the ratification of the 14th amendment that the courts began to apply the BoRs to the state governments.

incorporation doctrine.

Now Cherished, Bill of Rights Spent a Century in Obscurity
 
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#132
#132
While I don't object to seeing Christianity returning to our schools (in my time, we had a morning prayer before classes began), I have a severe concern. The most dangerous animals on the entire planet are those who use religion to commit abusive behavior, even criminal behavior, while claiming they're doing God's/god's work. Just look at the Inquisition era Catholics, the modern day Russian Orthodox Church, the Sunni and Sh'ia (Shi'i) Islamics. AND, modern day Christian cults' treatment of their members (Mormon and other fringe Protestant factions), plus their attitude to outsiders.
 
#133
#133
WoodsmanVol said:
While I don't object to seeing Christianity returning to our schools (in my time, we had a morning prayer before classes began), I have a severe concern. The most dangerous animals on the entire planet are those who use religion to commit abusive behavior, even criminal behavior, while claiming they're doing God's/god's work. Just look at the Inquisition era Catholics, the modern day Russian Orthodox Church, the Sunni and Sh'ia (Shi'i) Islamics. AND, modern day Christian cults' treatment of their members (Mormon and other fringe Protestant factions), plus their attitude to outsiders.
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"The LDS people are the most dangerous group of thugs in this country."

-Christina Aguilera
 
#137
#137
hog88 said:
The Federalists were opposed to including a Bill of Rights they even considered it dangerous. They also were pushing for a strong totally encompassing central government. I have read the Federalist papers and they are down right scary, thankfully they didn't prevail. It wasn't until the ratification of the 14th amendment that the courts began to apply the BoRs to the state governments.

incorporation doctrine.

Now Cherished, Bill of Rights Spent a Century in Obscurity
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Good info and you're right about the bill of rights. However, I think you're mischaracterizing the federalists. They wanted a government that had enough authority to fix the failing articles of confederation in terms of military finance and training and having a trade union to protect profits from exports and regulate trade between the states as well.
In the fed papers discussion of militias, they envisioned federal training and arms standards implemented by the states to guarantee the fighting ability of the forces. The second amendment would have been in service of this by closing a loophole that would have allowed states to renege on their militia requirements. It was clearly designed to apply to states from the beginning.
 
#138
#138
jvol1 said:
Good info and you're right about the bill of rights. However, I think you're mischaracterizing the federalists. They wanted a government that had enough authority to fix the failing articles of confederation in terms of military finance and training and having a trade union to protect profits from exports and regulate trade between the states as well.
In the fed papers discussion of militias, they envisioned federal training and arms standards implemented by the states to guarantee the fighting ability of the forces. The second amendment would have been in service of this by closing a loophole that would have allowed states to renege on their militia requirements. It was clearly designed to apply to states from the beginning.
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If the Federalists had gotten their way there would not have been a 2nd amendment or state militias. The Federalists wanted a standing Army over state militias.
 
#139
#139
hog88 said:
If the Federalists had gotten their way there would not have been a 2nd amendment or state militias. The Federalists wanted a standing Army over state militias.
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Not according to the federalist papers. Militias were thought to be a valuable supplement to standing forces, and control was to be left to the states.

FP No. 29
 
#140
#140
Welp, the dems screwed up their run in power by letting the crazies drive the car and now the repubs are ride or dies with their nutso contingent. In a few years, there will be yet another over correction.
 
#142
#142
hog88 said:
If the Federalists had gotten their way there would not have been a 2nd amendment or state militias. The Federalists wanted a standing Army over state militias.
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The 2nd amendment clearly puts gun ownership in the context of state militias, which we don't have or need anymore. State militias and gun ownership was needed in the 18th century--but we're now in the 21 century and, owing to the rednecks and gun nuts, we have easily availability of guns--including military-style assault rifles--in a country with huge numbers of maladjusted/troubled people. That's a dangerous combination and why we have an embarrassing gun-violence problem that puts every citizen at risk.
 
#144
#144
turbovol said:
The 2nd amendment clearly puts gun ownership in the context of state militias, which we don't have or need anymore. State militias and gun ownership was needed in the 18th century--but we're now in the 21 century and, owing to the rednecks and gun nuts, we have easily availability of guns--including military-style assault rifles--in a country with huge numbers of maladjusted/troubled people. That's a dangerous combination and why we have an embarrassing gun-violence problem that puts every citizen at risk.
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You keep on reaching turbovol, you might even find a way to justify pedophilia as a constitutional right
 
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#146
#146
utvolpj said:
Bible = calculus? Are you saying they're going to teach how many were enslaved or killed in the name of a Christian god or just read the nice stories? I can understand the influence without opening the book
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It is history, do you not understand that? Your assumptions and accusations against the Bible are ignorant
 
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#147
#147
turbovol said:
The 2nd amendment clearly puts gun ownership in the context of state militias, which we don't have or need anymore. State militias and gun ownership was needed in the 18th century--but we're now in the 21 century and, owing to the rednecks and gun nuts, we have easily availability of guns--including military-style assault rifles--in a country with huge numbers of maladjusted/troubled people. That's a dangerous combination and why we have an embarrassing gun-violence problem that puts every citizen at risk.
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I get that you don't understand the purpose of a comma but whatever, at least the majority of our SCOTUS does. Further if you feel like the 2nd is no longer needed start a movement to amend the constitution and strike it from the BoRs. Otherwise STFU.
 
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#148
#148
hog88 said:
I get that you don't understand the purpose of a comma but whatever, at least the majority of our SCOTUS does. Further if you feel like the 2nd is no longer needed start a movement to amend the constitution and strike it from the BoRs. Otherwise STFU.
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Keep on pummeling him/her
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