Nothing against Kevin Durant..

[pimo1]

Bird and Miller, while not overly athletic, were excellent defensive players.

they were both passable team defensive players.. kinda like Mcbee showed this past season. Excellent is pushing it..seriously pursing it. You have to look at the teams they played on. Bird and Miller were both surrounded by a number of guys who were almost strictly defensive players. They were better than Durant defensively but I honestly think he can be, over time, even more deadly offensively than either of them. So it all evens out and I put them in the same class of players. Neither of them is going to shut down the other teams best guy on a consistent basis.

My main point in all of this was that people are comparing apples to oranges. Comparing Lebron to Kobe and/or Durant is silly as they are totally different players. The only person that should ever ever be compared to Jordan is Kobe and even that's kinda mean.

Anyone saying they would unequivocally take one over the others on their team in a vacuum is a moron. The one thats the best for your team depends on the makeup of your team. Lebron being a slight exception because of his versatility. If you have a team that has decent shooters and Rebounders and needs an assassin on the wing that can play D you take Kobe. You have a great defensive team that lacks shooters you take Durant. You need a versatile guy to get your shooters shots you take Lebron. But Durant will never be the answer on defense or spend a lot of time in the post. Lebron is not the guy you want bombing from the perimeter and Kobe isn't going to be a consistent distributor.

These guys are all great and we should be happy we get to see them play. That being said not sure what this has to do with vols BB as interesting as the convo is. The OP was so insane I guess it had to devolve to here.

 

[Daloth]

No way jose - people will regard Westbrook as the better player if he continues to score like he does and gets smarter - Rondo doesn't have half of his athletic ability. What you described was still making Rondo a top 5 PG rather than a top 5 player. Westbrook will never be the team triple double machine Rondo is... But he will continue to take over games and outshine Durant a good third of the season.

Westbrook isn't even a point guard. He is a shooting guard playing the point. He is a shooting guard on a team with a player who is a better shooter than him (and on most nights, James harden is as well). Athleticism is towards westbrook, yes, but it's not so fast it's not comparable. On a team like OKC, you want Rondo over westbrook. On a team like Boston you want Rondo over westbrook.

If you asked all the NBA owners that they had to pick Westbrook or Rondo to build a team around right now, the vast majority of them are going to pick Rondo. He is just a better over all player and knows what he is supposed to do and has to do, and as we saw against Miami, when his mid range game is falling he is impossible to guard (which is fairly rare as well, but it's no less rare than for Westbrook who averages more points but less assists and rebounds.)

But, it doesn't really matter, because if we are honest, CP3, when healthy, is the best point guard in the league

 

[Daloth]

they were both passable team defensive players.. kinda like Mcbee showed this past season. Excellent is pushing it..seriously pursing it. You have to look at the teams they played on. Bird and Miller were both surrounded by a number of guys who were almost strictly defensive players. They were better than Durant defensively but I honestly think he can be, over time, even more deadly offensively than either of them. So it all evens out and I put them in the same class of players. Neither of them is going to shut down the other teams best guy on a consistent basis.

My main point in all of this was that people are comparing apples to oranges. Comparing Lebron to Kobe and/or Durant is silly as they are totally different players. The only person that should ever ever be compared to Jordan is Kobe and even that's kinda mean.

Anyone saying they would unequivocally take one over the others on their team in a vacuum is a moron. The one thats the best for your team depends on the makeup of your team. Lebron being a slight exception because of his versatility. If you have a team that has decent shooters and Rebounders and needs an assassin on the wing that can play D you take Kobe. You have a great defensive team that lacks shooters you take Durant. You need a versatile guy to get your shooters shots you take Lebron. But Durant will never be the answer on defense or spend a lot of time in the post. Lebron is not the guy you want bombing from the perimeter and Kobe isn't going to be a consistent distributor.

These guys are all great and we should be happy we get to see them play. That being said not sure what this has to do with vols BB as interesting as the convo is. The OP was so insane I guess it had to devolve to here.

I agree with most of this except for two parts really:

1. Lebron is every bit the defender Jordan or Kobe were (Kobe is not the same right now as he was even two years ago). He can legitimately guard five positions, and has been All Defensive team or close to it for quite a while.

2. If Durant would gain about 20 pounds(which we know is basically impossible because its not happened still, but let's pretend), then he would become a much better offensive player, but an even better defensive player. He is most often in the right positions already, but his size does not allow him to guard many different types of players (and it's why Lebron, Metta Ron Artest, Battier, etc can guard him by forcing him out of position with his lack of size). If he ever get's a man's body instead of a college body, he will be a solid B or B+ defender. Not an all NBA or even second teamer, but more than enough to guard another team's second best guy.

 

[Chris4Vols22]

that is 100% incorrect both Kobe and Jordan are/were not only top offensive players they were all nba defensive players.

Comparing Lebron to either of them is pointless though. A better person to compare him to is Magic or Big O. Durant is another that you really cant compare to the other guys in the conversation he would be more accurately compared to Reggie Miller or Larry Bird.

My opinion is based on their roles and playstyles. Lebron is not really a scorer in the same way Kobe, Lebron, Durant, Bird are/were. Lebron like magic scores because of all the other things he can do. You take away the threat of him distributing the ball and he is much less intimidating. Anytime he goes to the hole the defense has to be wondering if he is gonna shoot or pass. James is not a good enough shooter to be a ball hog.

Durant, Bird and Miller all pure scorers with average to negligible defensive skills. Neither would be considered a total scrub on D but you are definitely not putting them on the other teams best guy.

Jordan and Kobe are something else entirely. Both of them could have made it on an nba team on their defensive skills alone. Both great passers, thing is in most cases they are both so unstoppable why bother.

All 3 are great defenders. I was just saying it's tough to compare Lebron to MJ.

 

[zjcvols]

Kevin Durant is George Gervin, only if Gervin was 6'10 with a 7'5 wingspan.

 

[Ned Ray McWorkher]

There's a steal by Bird, underneath to DJ, lays it in! -- Reggie Miller in the Garden. Nuff said. -- I think I know what you mean though. They are not one on one shut down defenders, but excellent team defenders (rotations out to shooters, playing the pick and rolls and things of that nature).

 

[Ned Ray McWorkher]

All 3 are great defenders. I was just saying it's tough to compare Lebron to MJ.

Lebron is a combination of Karl Malone in the body. Pippen/Jordan on defense. Magic/Bird on offense. Dr J in transition. No one player is anything like Lebron. Period.

 

[Bassmanbruno]

Westbrook isn't even a point guard. He is a shooting guard playing the point. He is a shooting guard on a team with a player who is a better shooter than him (and on most nights, James harden is as well). Athleticism is towards westbrook, yes, but it's not so fast it's not comparable. On a team like OKC, you want Rondo over westbrook. On a team like Boston you want Rondo over westbrook.

If you asked all the NBA owners that they had to pick Westbrook or Rondo to build a team around right now, the vast majority of them are going to pick Rondo. He is just a better over all player and knows what he is supposed to do and has to do, and as we saw against Miami, when his mid range game is falling he is impossible to guard (which is fairly rare as well, but it's no less rare than for Westbrook who averages more points but less assists and rebounds.)

But, it doesn't really matter, because if we are honest, CP3, when healthy, is the best point guard in the league

Disagree - westbrooks ceiling is ten times higher than Rondos... Just because he may better suited as a SG only helps the cause that Rondo is a top 5 pg material while Westbrook has top 5 player potential... Like I said the thunder were 25-5 when Westbrook took more shots than Durant - that's pretty damn impressive for all the criticism he received about shooting too much. Miami was just a better team. This guy is young like the rest of his team.

 

[Daloth]

Disagree - westbrooks ceiling is ten times higher than Rondos... Just because he may better suited as a SG only helps the cause that Rondo is a top 5 pg material while Westbrook has top 5 player potential... Like I said the thunder were 25-5 when Westbrook took more shots than Durant - that's pretty damn impressive for all the criticism he received about shooting too much. Miami was just a better team. This guy is young like the rest of his team.

Taking more shots does not mean hitting more shots. Durant is a 47% shooter from the floor and an 88% free throw shooter

Think about that for a second. Would you want a 41% shooter from the floor (and 82% FT shooter) taking more shots than Durant?

Durant averages more points on less shots than Westbrook. If Westbrook stopped trying to take over games when he isn't shooting well (like the game after his 40+ outburst) and started distributing the ball, he could be one of the better point guards. But he doesn't. He keeps shooting. He is a point guard version of J.R. Smith, if he is hitting he will win you games, if he is not he will lose you games. But even J.R. Smith knows to get the ball to the best scorer in the league when his shot is falling or yours isn't.

 

[Bassmanbruno]

Taking more shots does not mean hitting more shots. Durant is a 47% shooter from the floor and an 88% free throw shooter

Think about that for a second. Would you want a 41% shooter from the floor (and 82% FT shooter) taking more shots than Durant?

Durant averages more points on less shots than Westbrook. If Westbrook stopped trying to take over games when he isn't shooting well (like the game after his 40+ outburst) and started distributing the ball, he could be one of the better point guards. But he doesn't. He keeps shooting. He is a point guard version of J.R. Smith, if he is hitting he will win you games, if he is not he will lose you games. But even J.R. Smith knows to get the ball to the best scorer in the league when his shot is falling or yours isn't.

I never was comparing him to Durant - if I was I would have said so. You can be a top 5 player in the league while being a scoring PG rather than a Steve Nash type PG.