Nothing against Kevin Durant..

[bleedingTNorange]

harden's a nice complement to KD especially coming off the bench a la J.R. Smith.. but westbrook has to realize creating for somebody else other than himself in pivotal moments is the right thing to do rather than continuing to throw up a house of bricks outside AA arena..

Exactly.

A Westbrook for rondo trade would benefit both teams nicely. Won't happen, but rondo surrounded by durant and harden is scary.

 

[zansdad]

Exactly.

A Westbrook for rondo trade would benefit both teams nicely. Won't happen, but rondo surrounded by durant and harden is scary.

As a Celtics fan, I am not sure I agree with this. Rondo has his share of WTF moments too. Personally I think RW gets way too much criticism.

 

[MoB_MoVols]

As a Celtics fan, I am not sure I agree with this. Rondo has his share of WTF moments too. Personally I think RW gets way too much criticism.

But BTO was speaking more to Rondo being a better facilitator than RW, which is true and he would fit in perfect with KD and JH

 

[zansdad]

But BTO was speaking more to Rondo being a better facilitator than RW, which is true and he would fit in perfect with KD and JH

Isn't Harden basically a pick and roll guy? That doesn't fit in well with Rondo at all.

 

[VolsFan4Ever-11]

The only way Rondo would work for OKC would be if they got rid of Harden. With Rondo playing nearly all the game, Harden wouldn't have the ball in his hands (when he's his best). If Harden is out there, Rondo doesn't have the ball in his hands (when he's the best). Neither guy is good enough of a shooter to constantly play off the ball.

 

[Bassmanbruno]

No way I would trade Westbrook for Rondo... Westbrook obviously has a lot to learn.. Sometimes he does shoot too much.. but more often than not he kept his team in the games.. Before the Miami series the Thunder were 25-5 when Westbrook took more shots than Durant.. He was dominant in game 4 then had a blunder at the end.. But I have a feeling that goes more on Scott Brooks rather than Westbrook..

He has a chance to be a top 5 player in the league as opposed to a top 5 pg in the league like Rondo.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

No way I would trade Westbrook for Rondo... Westbrook obviously has a lot to learn.. Sometimes he does shoot too much.. but more often than not he kept his team in the games.. Before the Miami series the Thunder were 25-5 when Westbrook took more shots than Durant.. He was dominant in game 4 then had a blunder at the end.. But I have a feeling that goes more on Scott Brooks rather than Westbrook..

He has a chance to be a top 5 player in the league as opposed to a top 5 pg in the league like Rondo.

That blunder was on Westbrook no if ands or buts, that was all RW.

 

[zansdad]

That blunder was on Westbrook no if ands or buts, that was all RW.

How can you say that? Players get paid to play, coaches get paid to keep up with odd ball rules. If Westbrook didn't know the clock reset to 5, and not 24, then that's at least partly on the coaching staff.

 

[Bassmanbruno]

That blunder was on Westbrook no if ands or buts, that was all RW.

Lol - only if Scott Brooks didn't tell his team the shot clock situation - or else its primarily on the coach.. if he did then you are correct its on Westbrook.. but even then the Thunder are blown out without him in that game.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

How can you say that? Players get paid to play, coaches get paid to keep up with odd ball rules. If Westbrook didn't know the clock reset to 5, and not 24, then that's at least partly on the coaching staff.

Well considering it was reported Scott got all the players attention, told them the situation and they all acknowledged him...I'd say he knew the rule and RW just had a brain fart.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Lol - only if Scott Brooks didn't tell his team the shot clock situation - or else its primarily on the coach.. if he did then you are correct its on Westbrook.. but even then the Thunder are blown out without him in that game.

As I just said above as well, it was reported the day after he told the 5 on the floor the situation and all 5 acknowledged. It was RW mental lapse, not brooks.

 

[zansdad]

As I just said above as well, it was reported the day after he told the 5 on the floor the situation and all 5 acknowledged. It was RW mental lapse, not brooks.

It was also seen and talked about that KD was asking Brooks if he wanted to take a timeout and get things straight right before that jump ball. Brooks decided not too. Since Westbrook fouled, one would have to assume that Brooks only "thought" everyone understood. Again, a bad play by RW but Brooks needs to share some of the blame.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

It was also seen and talked about that KD was asking Brooks if he wanted to take a timeout and get things straight right before that jump ball. Brooks decided not too. Since Westbrook fouled, one would have to assume that Brooks only "thought" everyone understood. Again, a bad play by RW but Brooks needs to share some of the blame.

If KD understood it why didn't he make sure the rest of them. From someone on the sideline, they said definitively that all 5 acknowledged brooks, why should he think if the acknowledge him that one didn't understand? Even RW after the game said it was his fault, and that brooks had told them.

 

[zansdad]

If KD understood it why didn't he make sure the rest of them. From someone on the sideline, they said definitively that all 5 acknowledged brooks, why should he think if the acknowledge him that one didn't understand? Even RW after the game said it was his fault, and that brooks had told them.

1) it's not KD's job to get everyone on the same page, on the road in a hectic environment, that's probably why he was asking Brooks to take a timeout

2) again, just because you think someone acknowledges you doesn't mean anything. You keep bringing this up and yet it is obvious that RW did not understand, or he wouldn't have fouled.

3) what is RW suppossed to say? Throw his coach under the bus?

At the end of the day it's the coaches responsibility to get his players on the right page. The last 15 seconds of a NBA finals might be time to call timeout and make sure everyone understands instead of an entire bench of coaches yelling instructions to their players in a sold out arena on the road. I agree that it was a bone headed play by Westbrook. I have got to think that a shot clock reset on a jump ball had happened somewhere before in a 66 game season. But that doesn't mean the coach shouldn't.call timeout and be 100% sure.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

If RW has to have a timeout called to comprehend what the other players all clearly understood then that's pathetic. Let's blame brooks because he tells RW what to do, RW says ok, yet still goes and does the wrong thing. How's that brooks' fault that RW is apparently just that dense, if he didn't understand then ask, also he's more than capable of calling a TO. Brooks told him, RW says ok I got ya, why should brooks think ok wait, it's RW let's make special care to make sure he comprehends this.

Bottom line, brooks told RW, RW said I got ya, it's all on RW plain and simple. If he had ANY doubt 1. Ask the coach again 2. Ask any of your teammates or 3. Call a TO...but if RW tells brooks he's got it, why on earth should brooks pursue it.

 

[zansdad]

If RW has to have a timeout called to comprehend what the other players all clearly understood then that's pathetic. Let's blame brooks because he tells RW what to do, RW says ok, yet still goes and does the wrong thing. How's that brooks' fault that RW is apparently just that dense, if he didn't understand then ask, also he's more than capable of calling a TO. Brooks told him, RW says ok I got ya, why should brooks think ok wait, it's RW let's make special care to make sure he comprehends this.

Bottom line, brooks told RW, RW said I got ya, it's all on RW plain and simple. If he had ANY doubt 1. Ask the coach again 2. Ask any of your teammates or 3. Call a TO...but if RW tells brooks he's got it, why on earth should brooks pursue it.

You have an ability to take nuances and turn them into absolutes. I didn't say Westbrook isn't to blame. I just argued that it's not 100% on Westbrook.

Your saying in your entire life you haven't had a boss or parent tell you something, you go "I got it", and turns out you really didn't have it? In important situations it is the responsibly of the person in charge to make sure that his subordinate really does have it. People are fired every day for stuff other people "understood."

And KD, your best player, looking at you and asking if you should call a TO and talk it over should clue a coach in that not everyone "has it".

 

[bleedingTNorange]

You have an ability to take nuances and turn them into absolutes. I didn't say Westbrook isn't to blame. I just argued that it's not 100% on Westbrook.

Your saying in your entire life you haven't had a boss or parent tell you something, you go "I got it", and turns out you really didn't have it? In important situations it is the responsibly of the person in charge to make sure that his subordinate really does have it. People are fired every day for stuff other people "understood."

And KD, your best player, looking at you and asking if you should call a TO and talk it over should clue a coach in that not everyone "has it".

Agree to disagree I guess. If you don't understand something if you're Westbrook just say so, it's not that complex though, DONT FOUL. Odds are if he didn't comprehend that the first time calling a timeout and beating it into his head wast going to change that.

 

[zansdad]

Agree to disagree I guess. If you don't understand something if you're Westbrook just say so, it's not that complex though, DONT FOUL. Odds are if he didn't comprehend that the first time calling a timeout and beating it into his head wast going to change that.

Sure.

 

[Daloth]

No way I would trade Westbrook for Rondo... Westbrook obviously has a lot to learn.. Sometimes he does shoot too much.. but more often than not he kept his team in the games.. Before the Miami series the Thunder were 25-5 when Westbrook took more shots than Durant.. He was dominant in game 4 then had a blunder at the end.. But I have a feeling that goes more on Scott Brooks rather than Westbrook..

He has a chance to be a top 5 player in the league as opposed to a top 5 pg in the league like Rondo.

You have that completely reversed. Rondo can be a top 5 player in the league, and Westbrook can be a top 5 point guard (and with Rose's Injury and CP3's knees that could be sooner than later).

Rondo will soon have more triple doubles than any player in celtics history. Hell, he already has his own move named after him. Westbrook is a scoring guard, an Isiah Thomas type. Rondo is something completely new, a point guard that rebounds (and doesn't have the size of Magic Johnson), and can move up the floor wherever he wants.

Boston would be dumb to trade Rondo straight up for Westbrook. Now... if you included Ibaka or Seffalosha (yes I misspelled that, but I don't care to look it up) in that trade....

 

[BACKDOC]

Nothing against CL,but besides the 3 point shot Durant is light years better than Lofton!

blasphemy

 

[therealUT]

Sure.

It is incredibly tough to ask a player to look at one of the vast multitudes of clocks in the arena, to include those above each basket. Definitely on the Coach; he should understand that his starting PG is just a ****ing moron.

 

[zansdad]

It is incredibly tough to ask a player to look at one of the vast multitudes of clocks in the arena, to include those above each basket. Definitely on the Coach; he should understand that his starting PG is just a ****ing moron.

Sure

 

[pimo1]

Kobe and Jordan is one of the better comparisons, so I don't know how he puts Kobe over MJ. IMO, the best player since MJ was Kobe before LeBron came along. Like others have said, LeBron's scoring alone hasn't made him one of the best players, it's everything else he does too. On the other hand, Kobe and MJ primarily led their teams to greatness just with scoring.

that is 100% incorrect both Kobe and Jordan are/were not only top offensive players they were all nba defensive players.

Comparing Lebron to either of them is pointless though. A better person to compare him to is Magic or Big O. Durant is another that you really cant compare to the other guys in the conversation he would be more accurately compared to Reggie Miller or Larry Bird.

My opinion is based on their roles and playstyles. Lebron is not really a scorer in the same way Kobe, Lebron, Durant, Bird are/were. Lebron like magic scores because of all the other things he can do. You take away the threat of him distributing the ball and he is much less intimidating. Anytime he goes to the hole the defense has to be wondering if he is gonna shoot or pass. James is not a good enough shooter to be a ball hog.

Durant, Bird and Miller all pure scorers with average to negligible defensive skills. Neither would be considered a total scrub on D but you are definitely not putting them on the other teams best guy.

Jordan and Kobe are something else entirely. Both of them could have made it on an nba team on their defensive skills alone. Both great passers, thing is in most cases they are both so unstoppable why bother.

 

[Bassmanbruno]

You have that completely reversed. Rondo can be a top 5 player in the league, and Westbrook can be a top 5 point guard (and with Rose's Injury and CP3's knees that could be sooner than later).

Rondo will soon have more triple doubles than any player in celtics history. Hell, he already has his own move named after him. Westbrook is a scoring guard, an Isiah Thomas type. Rondo is something completely new, a point guard that rebounds (and doesn't have the size of Magic Johnson), and can move up the floor wherever he wants.

Boston would be dumb to trade Rondo straight up for Westbrook. Now... if you included Ibaka or Seffalosha (yes I misspelled that, but I don't care to look it up) in that trade....

No way jose - people will regard Westbrook as the better player if he continues to score like he does and gets smarter - Rondo doesn't have half of his athletic ability. What you described was still making Rondo a top 5 PG rather than a top 5 player. Westbrook will never be the team triple double machine Rondo is... But he will continue to take over games and outshine Durant a good third of the season.

 

[Ned Ray McWorkher]

that is 100% incorrect both Kobe and Jordan are/were not only top offensive players they were all nba defensive players.

Comparing Lebron to either of them is pointless though. A better person to compare him to is Magic or Big O. Durant is another that you really cant compare to the other guys in the conversation he would be more accurately compared to Reggie Miller or Larry Bird.

My opinion is based on their roles and playstyles. Lebron is not really a scorer in the same way Kobe, Lebron, Durant, Bird are/were. Lebron like magic scores because of all the other things he can do. You take away the threat of him distributing the ball and he is much less intimidating. Anytime he goes to the hole the defense has to be wondering if he is gonna shoot or pass. James is not a good enough shooter to be a ball hog.

Durant, Bird and Miller all pure scorers with average to negligible defensive skills. Neither would be considered a total scrub on D but you are definitely not putting them on the other teams best guy.

Jordan and Kobe are something else entirely. Both of them could have made it on an nba team on their defensive skills alone. Both great passers, thing is in most cases they are both so unstoppable why bother.

Bird and Miller, while not overly athletic, were excellent defensive players.