Obama: "If you got a business, you didn't build that!"

#51
#51
PKT_VOL said:
Your missing the condescending tone and the fact that government resources (roads, bridges, safe environment provided by the military) are paid by them already via taxes.

I think the comment has been blow out of proportion, but such can be expected in an election year from both sides.
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I'm not going to deny the condescending tone. Obama's a wealthy, educated and passionate about his convictions... his condescending side frequently pops up. Obama is simply discussing his tax platform which just so happens to involve those who have reaped the benefits of government resources giving a little bit back to ensure that future people in their previous positions can experience similar prosperity.

Things do get blown out of proportion. There's no way Obama would choose the same words in retrospect, despite the underlying message. I'm not about to fault Romney for exploiting Obama's words by taking them out of context and using them to his advantage (this is politics after all), but that doesn't change the fact that what Obama said was hardly a kick in the head to small business owners.
 
#52
#52
orangesparkles said:
But he didn't take a shot at them. He never said they weren't smart or hardworking, but rather pointed out the fact that those attributes alone are not responsible for the success of their businesses. Does he need to pacify every business owner out there by qualifying his statements with a "Don't get me wrong, guys, you're really smart, talented and driven... BUT" comment? Not every business owner is smart, nor is every one hard working, though that is neither here nor there since inferring that from his speech is completely misreading Obama's words.

Also, that's not even the portion of the speech he's getting flack for. Obama is being chastised for an out of context statement that is now a major campaign rallying point for people who haven't heard or don't understand what he actually said.
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Seriously? The speech was about how the "successful" need to pay their "fair share" what ever the hell that is and he proceeded to explain how successful people think they got that way by being smart or hardworking but no it was all the efforts of others.

Why not acknowledge that successful people have some role in their own success? Why channel Dick Gephardt and the "winners of life's lottery" mentality.

Again - if you are so put out by out of context and crazy spin that "people haven't heard or don't understand" why aren't you railing against the Obama campaign that has done this at 2x rate based on advertising spending?

This is a typical Obama straw man argument. Claim successful people think they got there completely on their own (which no one has said) then explain why the didn't even though no one ever made the argument. It's like saying Republicans want dirty water and dirty air - or hate poor people.
 
#53
#53
orangesparkles said:
I'm not going to deny the condescending tone. Obama's a wealthy, educated and passionate about his convictions... his condescending side frequently pops up. Obama is simply discussing his tax platform which just so happens to involve those who have reaped the benefits of government resources giving a little bit back to ensure that future people in their previous positions can experience similar prosperity.

Things do get blown out of proportion. There's no way Obama would choose the same words in retrospect, despite the underlying message. I'm not about to fault Romney for exploiting Obama's words by taking them out of context and using them to his advantage (this is politics after all), but that doesn't change the fact that what Obama said was hardly a kick in the head to small business owners.
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Business owners piggyback the whole system, and enhance the lives of society as a whole.

This country was built on individualism and not collectivism.

In principle, there are only two fundamental political viewpoints. That is, two contradictory ends of the 'political spectrum.' Those two principles are freedom and slavery." -- Mark Da Cunha

The right to the pursuit of happiness IS the right to be selfish. You'd think Americans, of all people, would take pride in that, and in precisely what that really means." -- Rick Gaber

"America's abundance was not created by public sacrifices to the common good, but by the productive genius of free men who pursued their own personal interests and the making of their own private fortunes." -- Ayn Rand

The idea that 'the public interest' supersedes private interests and rights can have but one meaning: that the interests and rights of some individuals take precedence over the interests and rights of others." -- Ayn Rand

America was founded on the principle of inalienable rights, not dictated duties. The Declaration of Independence states that every human being has a right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It does not state that he is born a slave to the needs of others." -- Alex Epstein

"Republicans don't know how to defend morally an individual's right to achieve wealth and to keep it, and that is why they fail. ... It's part and parcel with their ambivalence over the individualist heritage of the nation. ... One of the things that people have to understand is that the American Revolution was truly an epic revolution in the way individuals were perceived in relation to the rest of the society. Throughout history individuals had always been cogs in some machine; they'd always been something to be sacrified for the king, the tribe, the gang, the chieftain, the society around them, the race, whatever, and the real revolution, in America especially, was a moral revolution. It was a moral revolution in that ... suddenly, with the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, the individual, his life, his well-being, his property, his happiness became central to our values, and that is what really made America unique. People came here from all over the world to try to escape the kind of oppression they had and experienced in the past. They came here for freedom; they came here for self-expression and self-realization, and America offered them that kind of a place." -- Robert Bidinotto
 
#54
#54
volinbham said:
Seriously? The speech was about how the "successful" need to pay their "fair share" what ever the hell that is and he proceeded to explain how successful people think they got that way by being smart or hardworking but no it was all the efforts of others.

Why not acknowledge that successful people have some role in their own success? Why channel Dick Gephardt and the "winners of life's lottery" mentality.

Again - if you are so put out by out of context and crazy spin that "people haven't heard or don't understand" why aren't you railing against the Obama campaign that has done this at 2x rate based on advertising spending?

This is a typical Obama straw man argument. Claim successful people think they got there completely on their own (which no one has said) then explain why the didn't even though no one ever made the argument. It's like saying Republicans want dirty water and dirty air - or hate poor people.
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Obama never said it was "all the efforts of others." He never said that successful didn't have "some role" in their own success. He said "you didn't get there on your own." That's very different than saying "the only reason you got here was through the assistance of others." Again, he does not have to acknowledge that people have some role in their own success. We're not three year olds and, as such, we should be able to infer the meaning of a speech without having our hand held throughout it and having everything completely spelled out.

Also, please point out where I have championed or defended any of the Obama camp's purported proliferation of Romney quotes or positions out of context. I haven't, because there's no need to. I'm not going to blindly support obvious politicking because it's clear when one side is really stretching... which many in this topic obviously haven't figured out considering the fervent anti-Obama stance on the speech.
 
#57
#57
orangesparkles said:
Obama never said it was "all the efforts of others." He never said that successful didn't have "some role" in their own success. He said "you didn't get there on your own." That's very different than saying "the only reason you got here was through the assistance of others." Again, he does not have to acknowledge that people have some role in their own success. We're not three year olds and, as such, we should be able to infer the meaning of a speech without having our hand held throughout it and having everything completely spelled out.

Also, please point out where I have championed or defended any of the Obama camp's purported proliferation of Romney quotes or positions out of context. I haven't, because there's no need to. I'm not going to blindly support obvious politicking because it's clear when one side is really stretching... which many in this topic obviously haven't figured out considering the fervent anti-Obama stance on the speech.
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I am baffled at how people can quote a 1:00 section of the guy's speech and then you claim it is taken out of context. It isn't like when ABC stitched together pieces of a phone call to make Zimmerman sound racist. It isn't like when all the news outlets take Romney's quote about "not being concerned for the very poor". One full minute of an idiot's tirade against capitalist drive is not cherry picking. And if Obamas actual words were not bad enough, his overall tone during the speech shows how absolutely dedicated he is to morphing this country into a socialist utopia. Remove the blinders and see what this man actually is. When you compare what he has already done as president to the remarks he makes in the speech, it isn't hard to see that he sincerely despises capitalism and individual liberty. Wake up!
 
#58
#58
It is a shame that in the greatest country on earth, we actually have the choice of Doofus A or Doofus B.
 
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#59
#59
orangesparkles said:
Obama never said it was "all the efforts of others." He never said that successful didn't have "some role" in their own success. He said "you didn't get there on your own." That's very different than saying "the only reason you got here was through the assistance of others." Again, he does not have to acknowledge that people have some role in their own success. We're not three year olds and, as such, we should be able to infer the meaning of a speech without having our hand held throughout it and having everything completely spelled out.

If we're not 3 and 4 year olds as you suggest then he likewise doesn't need to point out that successful people didn't get there 100% on their own. Yet, he proceeds with that lecture. Why bother? No one has made the claim he is refuting.

Also, please point out where I have championed or defended any of the Obama camp's purported proliferation of Romney quotes or positions out of context. I haven't, because there's no need to. I'm not going to blindly support obvious politicking because it's clear when one side is really stretching... which many in this topic obviously haven't figured out considering the fervent anti-Obama stance on the speech.
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I've not said you championed or defended Obama's campaign tactics but given how strongly you feel Obama is being wronged here I would think an objective person would be against similar tactics from any candidate from any side. What the Romney camp is doing here is no more stretching than what Team Obama is doing yet only one seems be "really stretching".
 
#60
#60
I don;t understand the idiocy of taking the phrase out of context. Politics is getting funny and taken over by the uneducated on Fox News. MSNBC is not better, they are just as bad as Fox News, but this one is on Fox. Crazy people.
 
#63
#63
Vols JD said:
I don;t understand the idiocy of taking the phrase out of context. Politics is getting funny and taken over by the uneducated on Fox News. MSNBC is not better, they are just as bad as Fox News, but this one is on Fox. Crazy people.
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Did you listen to the entire context of his statement? It doesn't change anything. It's exactly what he meant
 
#64
#64
Vols JD said:
I don;t understand the idiocy of taking the phrase out of context. Politics is getting funny and taken over by the uneducated on Fox News. MSNBC is not better, they are just as bad as Fox News, but this one is on Fox. Crazy people.
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How is it out of context? As Boortz stated, "that" is singular and points back to the business you did not build. Had he been talking about bridges and roads, he would have said "those."
 
#70
#70
"Look, if you've been successful, you didn't get there on your own. You didn't get there on your own. I'm always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something -- there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business -- you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn't get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet."
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just so everyone is working from the same script
 
#71
#71
allvol123 said:
How is it out of context? As Boortz stated, "that" is singular and points back to the business you did not build. Had he been talking about bridges and roads, he would have said "those."
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It is being taken as if he said the person with the business did not build the business, he did not say that. He was saying that if you were successful someone helped you get there, completely true statement. A teacher, bank, roads, police, etc. etc. And yes, Roads! No one business built the roads and that is what he said. Out of context would be people saying that Obama said anyone who owns a business did not built that business, that is not what he said and he sums it up in the end by stating his point.
 
#74
#74
But you know what, I’m not going to see us gut the investments that grow our economy to give tax breaks to me or Mr. Romney or folks who don’t need them. So I’m going to reduce the deficit in a balanced way. We’ve already made a trillion dollars’ worth of cuts. We can make another trillion or trillion-two, and what we then do is ask for the wealthy to pay a little bit more. (Applause.) And, by the way, we’ve tried that before -- a guy named Bill Clinton did it. We created 23 million new jobs, turned a deficit into a surplus, and rich people did just fine. We created a lot of millionaires.

There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me -- because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t -- look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something -- there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there. (Applause.)

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.

So we say to ourselves, ever since the founding of this country, you know what, there are some things we do better together. That’s how we funded the GI Bill. That’s how we created the middle class. That’s how we built the Golden Gate Bridge or the Hoover Dam. That’s how we invented the Internet. That’s how we sent a man to the moon. We rise or fall together as one nation and as one people, and that’s the reason I’m running for President -- because I still believe in that idea. You’re not on your own, we’re in this together. (Applause.)

So all these issues go back to that first campaign that I talked about, because everything has to do with how do we help middle-class families, working people, strivers, doers -- how do we help them succeed? How do we make sure that their hard work pays off? That’s what I've been thinking about the entire time I've been President.
 
#75
#75
There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me -- because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t -- look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something -- there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there. (Applause.)

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that. (Roads and bridges) Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.


And that is the point not the out of context craziness happening from others.
 
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