Obama proposes extending Bush tax cuts for 98 percent of us

#28
#28
Most 1% ar either BO's or executives. You add the Obamacare tax that is headed straight for BO's and the reality that it will have some trickle down effect to officer's pay and then you add on killing the Bush cuts for them and you've hit the 1% crowed alot harder than people realize.

A business of 100 part time works is about to get hit with $100,000 in annual "fees" which will either lower the base net cashflow of the businees if it is not zeroing out each year or it will lower the net income of the owners if it is zeroeing out and pass the income through to personal. Then add on another 2-5% tax and boom you've hit the guy pretty hard.
 
#29
#29
I do think that the wealthiest should pay more in taxes. But, I marry that conclusion with the point that the middle and lower classes will have to do with less benefits in their short and particularly long term social programs (Medicare, in particular).

Basically, the way I see it, the middle and lower classes simply cannot expect the benefits they have come to understand that they will get. Its time for more savings by them, for long term purposes. At the same time, the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest have not yielded significant trickle down effects. We can argue until the cows come home whether that it a function of this particular economy or something else. But bottom line is that it just did not work to cause greater jobs investment or production in the US of A.

At this point, everybody needs to be slapped on the hand and told "no," at some level.

If I were POTUS come 1/1/2013, my program to deal with the so called "fiscal cliff" would be something along the lines that 1) the Bush tax cuts are repealed for those making over $250,000 and left in place for everyone else below that; 2) all discretionary spending is ended for 5 years (except for emergency spending related to disasters); 3) all federal agencies and programs get an across the board 5 % cut in their budgets, to be imposed as the agencies see fit. This includes Medicare. It includes defense.

Any agency seeking an exemption from the cut has to justify their entire budget, top to bottom, publicly.
 
#32
#32
lawgator1 said:
If I were POTUS come 1/1/2013, my program to deal with the so called "fiscal cliff" would be something along the lines that 1) the Bush tax cuts are repealed for those making over $250,000 and left in place for everyone else below that; 2) all discretionary spending is ended for 5 years (except for emergency spending related to disasters); 3) all federal agencies and programs get an across the board 5 % cut in their budgets, to be imposed as the agencies see fit. This includes Medicare. It includes defense.

Any agency seeking an exemption from the cut has to justify their entire budget, top to bottom, publicly.
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:blink: ...and you think the Republicans are seeking Draconian cuts?!?
 
#36
#36
UTRavens said:
Higher. If you're asking for a specific percentage, I'm not qualified to judge. But it's pretty clear that they have the capacity to offer much more.
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So to each according to his needs and from each according to his worth (or something like that)?
 
#37
#37
UTRavens said:
Because they can make much more of a contribution without hurting their way of life than any other class can?
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They already make much more of a contribution than anyone else. Why punish people for being successful?
 
#38
#38
UTRavens said:
Higher. If you're asking for a specific percentage, I'm not qualified to judge. But it's pretty clear that they have the capacity to offer much more.
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so you're not qualified to judge but you know it must be higher? What % does the top 1% pay now and how much of the total tax revenue does it total? Where should all this extra tax revenue go?
 
#40
#40
UTRavens said:
Higher. If you're asking for a specific percentage, I'm not qualified to judge. But it's pretty clear that they have the capacity to offer much more.
Click to expand...

So equitability doesn't matter. This is a pure capacity argument.

Remind me who in this country gives to capacity and why the majority now gives none.
 
#41
#41
lawgator1 said:
I do think that the wealthiest should pay more in taxes. But, I marry that conclusion with the point that the middle and lower classes will have to do with less benefits in their short and particularly long term social programs (Medicare, in particular).

Basically, the way I see it, the middle and lower classes simply cannot expect the benefits they have come to understand that they will get. Its time for more savings by them, for long term purposes. At the same time, the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest have not yielded significant trickle down effects. We can argue until the cows come home whether that it a function of this particular economy or something else. But bottom line is that it just did not work to cause greater jobs investment or production in the US of A.

At this point, everybody needs to be slapped on the hand and told "no," at some level.

If I were POTUS come 1/1/2013, my program to deal with the so called "fiscal cliff" would be something along the lines that 1) the Bush tax cuts are repealed for those making over $250,000 and left in place for everyone else below that; 2) all discretionary spending is ended for 5 years (except for emergency spending related to disasters); 3) all federal agencies and programs get an across the board 5 % cut in their budgets, to be imposed as the agencies see fit. This includes Medicare. It includes defense.

Any agency seeking an exemption from the cut has to justify their entire budget, top to bottom, publicly.
Click to expand...


Corporate income tax is still 35% causing businesses to find other ways to maximizer profits. The lower of this income tax rate would cause this trickle down effect.
 
#42
#42
In respect Philippines max is a whole 5% lower than our corp max.

That's not small considering they also will give huge tax credits for employee large amounts of ANY type of worker.
 
#43
#43
lawgator1 said:
I do think that the wealthiest should pay more in taxes. But, I marry that conclusion with the point that the middle and lower classes will have to do with less benefits in their short and particularly long term social programs (Medicare, in particular).

Basically, the way I see it, the middle and lower classes simply cannot expect the benefits they have come to understand that they will get. Its time for more savings by them, for long term purposes. At the same time, the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest have not yielded significant trickle down effects. We can argue until the cows come home whether that it a function of this particular economy or something else. But bottom line is that it just did not work to cause greater jobs investment or production in the US of A.

At this point, everybody needs to be slapped on the hand and told "no," at some level.

If I were POTUS come 1/1/2013, my program to deal with the so called "fiscal cliff" would be something along the lines that 1) the Bush tax cuts are repealed for those making over $250,000 and left in place for everyone else below that; 2) all discretionary spending is ended for 5 years (except for emergency spending related to disasters); 3) all federal agencies and programs get an across the board 5 % cut in their budgets, to be imposed as the agencies see fit. This includes Medicare. It includes defense.

Any agency seeking an exemption from the cut has to justify their entire budget, top to bottom, publicly.
Click to expand...

And you wouldnt come close to balancing the budget.
 
#44
#44
If we're going to create new taxes, make it tariffs. Stop making it cheaper to produce products in other countries and then send them here for more profit. If it's about creating new jobs then we need to put something together that forces large corporations to move their production facilities back to the U.S.A. and it doesn't need to be special tax cuts because we've seen that doesn't work.

My tax views are fairly liberal. I have no sympathy for the rich when it comes to taxes. They've built their success on the backs of others that they don't want to share with. The days off bosses that actually cared about their workforce have passed. That's one of the problems with this country. Once upon a time we, as a country, actually cared about each other. Those days are gone. Now we outsource everything we can to cheapen labor costs and make more profit, leaving behind a class of people who no longer have jobs. Big corporations and those who run them have created this mess in their chase for the once almighty dollar. The rich make far more than they need for a decent living. It's no wonder corporations go belly up when they pay such exorbitant salaries to guys who sit on their ass and make poor decisions.

Politics and big business have made a God awful mess of this country
 
#45
#45
Weezer said:
If we're going to create new taxes, make it tariffs. Stop making it cheaper to produce products in other countries and then send them here for more profit. If it's about creating new jobs then we need to put something together that forces large corporations to move their production facilities back to the U.S.A. and it doesn't need to be special tax cuts because we've seen that doesn't work.

My tax views are fairly liberal. I have no sympathy for the rich when it comes to taxes. They've built their success on the backs of others that they don't want to share with. The days off bosses that actually cared about their workforce have passed. That's one of the problems with this country. Once upon a time we, as a country, actually cared about each other. Those days are gone. Now we outsource everything we can to cheapen labor costs and make more profit, leaving behind a class of people who no longer have jobs. Big corporations and those who run them have created this mess in their chase for the once almighty dollar. The rich make far more than they need for a decent living. It's no wonder corporations go belly up when they pay such exorbitant salaries to guys who sit on their ass and make poor decisions.

Politics and big business have made a God awful mess of this country
Click to expand...

Dammit I'm so sick of this ****!!!


How many hours a week do you work? More than 60? More than 60 for week after week after week after ****ing week?

Have you ever leveraged everything you own knowing that if it fails you have bankrupted your entire family?

Have you ever set up in bed at 3AM and had a panic attack because the cashflow was barely enough to cover the expenses and you were scared you were going to lose everything?

My guess is you havent.

You people have no idea the risk, stress, and hard work someone puts into getting a business off the ground. You have no f'n clue because you are a tool who doesn't know how hard somebody worked to form the corporation that puts food on your ****ing table for your family to eat.


This crap is getting old.

We business owners arent the enemy and if it wasnt for our taking a chance you wouldnt have a ****ing job.
 
#46
#46
NEOCON said:
Dammit I'm so sick of this ****!!!


How many hours a week do you work? More than 60? More than 60 for week after week after week after ****ing week?

Have you ever leveraged everything you own knowing that if it fails you have bankrupted your entire family?

Have you ever set up in bed at 3AM and had a panic attack because the cashflow was barely enough to cover the expenses and you were scared you were going to lose everything?

My guess is you havent.

You people have no idea the risk, stress, and hard work someone puts into getting a business off the ground. You have no f'n clue because you are a tool who doesn't know how hard somebody worked to form the corporation that puts food on your ****ing table for your family to eat.


This crap is getting old.

We business owners arent the enemy and if it wasnt for our taking a chance you wouldnt have a ****ing job.
Click to expand...

Get over yourself. You care about you and yours and I care about mine.

In your rush to be outraged, maybe you missed where I was refering to big corporations. Are you a big corporation? I respect that you started your own business. Bully for you. But I suspect you're more of a small company. That said, I hope you take care of those who actually work their ass off for you. Yeah, there are some lazy SOBs who probably try to leech off of you, but some people do still believe in working hard.

And if you can't see how outsourcing to other nations has hurt ours, you need to pull your head out of your ass.
 
#47
#47
Weezer said:
If we're going to create new taxes, make it tariffs. Stop making it cheaper to produce products in other countries and then send them here for more profit. If it's about creating new jobs then we need to put something together that forces large corporations to move their production facilities back to the U.S.A. and it doesn't need to be special tax cuts because we've seen that doesn't work.

My tax views are fairly liberal. I have no sympathy for the rich when it comes to taxes. They've built their success on the backs of others that they don't want to share with. The days off bosses that actually cared about their workforce have passed. That's one of the problems with this country. Once upon a time we, as a country, actually cared about each other. Those days are gone. Now we outsource everything we can to cheapen labor costs and make more profit, leaving behind a class of people who no longer have jobs. Big corporations and those who run them have created this mess in their chase for the once almighty dollar. The rich make far more than they need for a decent living. It's no wonder corporations go belly up when they pay such exorbitant salaries to guys who sit on their ass and make poor decisions.

Politics and big business have made a God awful mess of this country
Click to expand...

you talk about how the rich don't care but what about the leeches that do nothing but take their money without remorse? Heck many think they're entitled to it.

I also have a hard time with anyone judging that someone has " far more than they need for a decent living."
 
#48
#48
NEOCON said:
Dammit I'm so sick of this ****!!!


How many hours a week do you work? More than 60? More than 60 for week after week after week after ****ing week?

Have you ever leveraged everything you own knowing that if it fails you have bankrupted your entire family?

Have you ever set up in bed at 3AM and had a panic attack because the cashflow was barely enough to cover the expenses and you were scared you were going to lose everything?

My guess is you havent.

You people have no idea the risk, stress, and hard work someone puts into getting a business off the ground. You have no f'n clue because you are a tool who doesn't know how hard somebody worked to form the corporation that puts food on your ****ing table for your family to eat.


This crap is getting old.

We business owners arent the enemy and if it wasnt for our taking a chance you wouldnt have a ****ing job.
Click to expand...

And furthermore, I have had sleepless nights trying to figure out where I was going to get money for one thing or the other. And business owners aren't the only ones who put in 60+ hour work weeks. I try to respect everyone and I normally respect your opinion, but right now, you need to stop being such a tool. Other people work hard as well in trying to provide for their families.
 
#49
#49
Weezer said:
If we're going to create new taxes, make it tariffs. Stop making it cheaper to produce products in other countries and then send them here for more profit. If it's about creating new jobs then we need to put something together that forces large corporations to move their production facilities back to the U.S.A. and it doesn't need to be special tax cuts because we've seen that doesn't work.

My tax views are fairly liberal. I have no sympathy for the rich when it comes to taxes. They've built their success on the backs of others that they don't want to share with. The days off bosses that actually cared about their workforce have passed. That's one of the problems with this country. Once upon a time we, as a country, actually cared about each other. Those days are gone. Now we outsource everything we can to cheapen labor costs and make more profit, leaving behind a class of people who no longer have jobs. Big corporations and those who run them have created this mess in their chase for the once almighty dollar. The rich make far more than they need for a decent living. It's no wonder corporations go belly up when they pay such exorbitant salaries to guys who sit on their ass and make poor decisions.

Politics and big business have made a God awful mess of this country
Click to expand...

In response to the giant wall of quotes that resulted from my last post, I'll go the unoriginal route and say that I largely agree with Weezer. I'm not much of a buyer into the trickle down effect and I sure as heck don't feel like the rich are being helpful or selfless in all of this.

That being said, the bolded part of your post is completely and utterly ridiculous. If you think bosses EVER looked out for the people below them, I don't know what to tell you. The history of workers' rights should probably be enough of a sign of how wrong that idea is.

But it's rather typical of the blinded nostalgia we see all the time. Regardless of how far back you go, there was always a group of people talking about the "good old days." When those people passed on, the era that they once criticized suddenly became the "good old days," and so on.

It's not like human nature suddenly changed in the past 20 years. People have ALWAYS looked out for themselvelves first and foremost - again, that's human nature. There was no respect for the working/lower class that ever disappeared, because it never existed to begin with - and if it did, it's probably more prevalent today than it was in the past.
 
#50
#50
Weezer said:
And furthermore, I have had sleepless nights trying to figure out where I was going to get money for one thing or the other. And business owners aren't the only ones who put in 60+ hour work weeks. I try to respect everyone and I normally respect your opinion, but right now, you need to stop being such a tool. Other people work hard as well in trying to provide for their families.
Click to expand...

In all fairness, you did kind of call him out first.
 
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