Obama proposes extending Bush tax cuts for 98 percent of us

[Weezer]

you talk about how the rich don't care but what about the leeches that do nothing but take their money without remorse? Heck many think they're entitled to it.

I also have a hard time with anyone judging that someone has " far more than they need for a decent living."

I agree, there are some lazy SOBs out there. I don't believe in rewarding them or supporting them. But some people do work hard. Some people would work hard if they weren't so disillusioned by our society. Work hard and you'll be rewarded. That used to be true now it's just bull****.

When you have multiple residences in multiple states and a collection of automobiles to go with it, I have no problem in saying you make more than you need, especially when those who work for you struggle to put food on their table. Is that judgement? If so, I'm guilty. Oh well.

 

[OrangeEmpire]

I agree, there are some lazy SOBs out there. I don't believe in rewarding them or supporting them. But some people do work hard. Some people would work hard if they weren't so disillusioned by our society. Work hard and you'll be rewarded. That used to be true now it's just bull****.

When you have multiple residences in multiple states and a collection of automobiles to go with it, I have no problem in saying you make more than you need, especially when those who work for you struggle to put food on their table. Is that judgement? If so, I'm guilty. Oh well.

To the latter, why is it your concern, am I not free to live how I choose?

 

[utvolpj]

I agree, there are some lazy SOBs out there. I don't believe in rewarding them or supporting them. But some people do work hard. Some people would work hard if they weren't so disillusioned by our society. Work hard and you'll be rewarded. That used to be true now it's just bull****.

When you have multiple residences in multiple states and a collection of automobiles to go with it, I have no problem in saying you make more than you need, especially when those who work for you struggle to put food on their table. Is that judgement? If so, I'm guilty. Oh well.

but why do you get to decide what kind of life someone gets to live? You say "Work hard and you'll be rewarded" but you want to place an artificial cap on the reward.

The money taken from millionaires won't help much of anything in this country. Penalizing the ones at the top simply because they worked hard while rewarding the ones that put in no effort is against everything I thought America was about

 

[Weezer]

In all fairness, you did kind of call him out first.

If that's what you want to see, okay. My initial post was more about big business. I know Neo has a business, but I've never been led to believe it was a big business. If my message was clouded, I apologize, but my views on big business remain the same.

 

[UTRavens]

To the latter, why is it your concern, am I not free to live how I choose?

Unless you think taxes are an affront to freedom that should be abolished in all forms, why does an advocate for a higher rate suddenly call for you to play the freedom card? (edit - and the same goes for the person immediately following)

 

[OrangeEmpire]

Unless you think taxes are an affront to freedom that should be abolished in all forms, why does an advocate for a higher rate suddenly call for you to play the freedom card?

Its not a personal liberty question?

This is getting epic

 

[Weezer]

To the latter, why is it your concern, am I not free to live how I choose?

Am I not free to speak how I feel? My concern would come if you were my boss and I your employee.

Say what you want to say, OE. I won't be offended. I may argue, but I won't hate.

 

[OrangeEmpire]

Am I not free to speak how I feel? My concern would come if you were my boss and I your employee.

Say what you want to say, OE. I won't be offended. I may argue, but I won't hate.

Freedom to do as you please, apparently you have disdain for others to do like wise.


Wth does the latter mean?

 

[utvolpj]

Unless you think taxes are an affront to freedom that should be abolished in all forms, why does an advocate for a higher rate suddenly call for you to play the freedom card? (edit - and the same goes for the person immediately following)

not in all forms but they should be extremely limited in scope. Taking money earned by one and giving it to another that did nothing to earn it is wrong. In fact, some would call it theft

 

[Weezer]

but why do you get to decide what kind of life someone gets to live? You say "Work hard and you'll be rewarded" but you want to place an artificial cap on the reward.

The money taken from millionaires won't help much of anything in this country. Penalizing the ones at the top simply because they worked hard while rewarding the ones that put in no effort is against everything I thought America was about

A fair portion of the wealth in this country is old money. Many at the top have not worked to get where they are they just happenned to be fortunate to be conceived in a golden womb.

Why should the rich be allowed to decide how others live? Sometimes, hard work only gets you so far. Not everyone gets the breaks. Most corporations don't even give their employees raises to keep up with cost of living increases. They'll nickel and dime you every year while prices continue to rise at a higher rate. All in the name of profit. Hell, it's hard to make a profit when you pay your executives out the ass.

And now who's being judgemental? Why does not being rich equate to laziness? Some people work hard and don't have money to show for it. Some people don't work and have plenty of money in their coffers.

 

[Cartervol]

but why do you get to decide what kind of life someone gets to live? You say "Work hard and you'll be rewarded" but you want to place an artificial cap on the reward.

The money taken from millionaires won't help much of anything in this country. Penalizing the ones at the top simply because they worked hard while rewarding the ones that put in no effort is against everything I thought America was about

Goes against everything it was founded on. Socialism doesn't work. You eventually run out of other people's money.

We need new leadership for this very reason.

 

[Weezer]

Freedom to do as you please, apparently you have disdain for others to do like wise.


Wth does the latter mean?

Nope. They're free to do as they want, but I don't have to like it.

My way of saying I respect you as a poster.

 

[utvolpj]

A fair portion of the wealth in this country is old money. Many at the top have not worked to get where they are they just happenned to be fortunate to be conceived in a golden womb.

Why should the rich be allowed to decide how others live? Sometimes, hard work only gets you so far. Not everyone gets the breaks. Most corporations don't even give their employees raises to keep up with cost of living increases. They'll nickel and dime you every year while prices continue to rise at a higher rate. All in the name of profit. Hell, it's hard to make a profit when you pay your executives out the ass.

And now who's being judgemental? Why does not being rich equate to laziness? Some people work hard and don't have money to show for it. Some people don't work and have plenty of money in their coffers.

it doesn't take "breaks" to be successful in this country. Maybe some to get to a very high level of income but not to simply live comfortably on your own work. If you work hard and have very little to show for it then you're not working smart. It can be done by anyone.

Sure, rich people can be lazy but someone had to earn that money in the first place. Allowing the govt to play Robin Hood is a very dangerous game

 

[Weezer]

PJ, you're obsessed with one POV of lazy SOBs living off the system. I agree, that **** is wrong, but some people work two or three jobs to support their family and they work hard at every one of them. Working hard no longer guarantees success. Being rich doesn't mean you worked hard for your money. It's not mutually exclusive.

 

[UTRavens]

not in all forms but they should be extremely limited in scope. Taking money earned by one and giving it to another that did nothing to earn it is wrong. In fact, some would call it theft

You can find a clever word for anything if you're going all Frank Luntz about it.

Sure, taxes take away from our "total" freedom, but (at the risk of using the slippery slope argument) so do laws. No one is going to argue that reprehensible acts should be criminalized and disallowed - even though that infringes upon our freedom to do whatever we want to do. And while selfishness isn't criminalized, it certainly isn't good for society if the upper class is selfish to the point where they don't care about the plight of the less unfortunate.

Enforcing taxes to improve their situation may be "thievery" in the eyes of people who live in an advantageous situation, but in so many cases it is absolutely necessary not just for others to obtain a decent living, but for their own survival and basic needs. It may be forcing an act of moral decency, but it certainly is going to leave the world better off than to let people act in self-interest without consequences. If that belief makes me a Robin Hood, I think I can live with that.

 

[utvolpj]

PJ, you're obsessed with one POV of lazy SOBs living off the system. I agree, that **** is wrong, but some people work two or three jobs to support their family and they work hard at every one of them. Working hard no longer guarantees success. Being rich doesn't mean you worked hard for your money. It's not mutually exclusive.

well I leave out the lazy rich since they aren't the ones asking for someone else's money. The govt isn't looking to raise their taxes because they're using more services than they pay for.

I'm all for helping those that truly need it get back on their feet but this has evolved past that.

 

[Weezer]

it doesn't take "breaks" to be successful in this country. Maybe some to get to a very high level of income but not to simply live comfortably on your own work. If you work hard and have very little to show for it then you're not working smart. It can be done by anyone.

Sure, rich people can be lazy but someone had to earn that money in the first place. Allowing the govt to play Robin Hood is a very dangerous game

I disagree. It does take breaks to be securely successful in this country. Hard work no longer guarantees you anything. Working smart is laughable because most people think they are until they fall flat on their face.

 

[OrangeEmpire]

You can find a clever word for anything if you're going all Frank Luntz about it.

Sure, taxes take away from our "total" freedom, but (at the risk of using the slippery slope argument) so do laws. No one is going to argue that reprehensible acts should be criminalized and disallowed - even though that infringes upon our freedom to do whatever we want to do. And while selfishness isn't criminalized, it certainly isn't good for society if the upper class is selfish to the point where they don't care about the plight of the less unfortunate.

Enforcing taxes to improve their situation may be "thievery" in the eyes of people who live in an advantageous situation, but in so many cases it is absolutely necessary not just for others to obtain a decent living, but for their own survival and basic needs. It may be forcing an act of moral decency, but it certainly is going to leave the world better off than to let people act in self-interest without consequences. If that belief makes me a Robin Hood, I think I can live with that.

Forcing act of moral deceny..........?

Oxymoron

 

[YorkVol]

I like to drop the father/daughter in at times like these.

Daughter comes home from college feeling pretty liberal about things. Life is not fiar for the poor, rich should pay more etc. Dad asks her a question, "how are your grades?"
Daughter says "my grades are fine, I'm carrying a full load but still have a 4.0. It's hard work and I don't have a social life to speak of, but that is the sacrifice you make to be successful."

Dad then asks "How are your roomate Laura's grades?"

"Well Laura is about to get kicked out! She parties all the time, rarely goes to class and is no even passing any of her classes."

Dad, "ok, then here is what I want you to do. Go to the dean and tell him you want to give part of your gpa to Laura. You have a 4.0, so you can afford to lose a couple of points and still pass with no problem. That way Laura will pass and everything will be fair, right?"

Daughter "No way, I worked for those grades and deserve to have a 4.0. It wouldn't be fair for me to just give Laura something she hasn't worked for. If she wants better grades, shr should work for them."

Dad, "welcome to the conservative world."


Sorry for typos, mobile!

 

[UTRavens]

PJ, you're obsessed with one POV of lazy SOBs living off the system. I agree, that **** is wrong, but some people work two or three jobs to support their family and they work hard at every one of them. Working hard no longer guarantees success. Being rich doesn't mean you worked hard for your money. It's not mutually exclusive.

Didn't you hear? We know exactly how to solve problems for people whose shoes we've never spent a second of our lives in. And it conveniently happens to agree with our own political beliefs!

 

[UTRavens]

Forcing act of moral deceny..........?

Oxymoron

The whole world is an oxymoron. There are very few things on this planet that are 100% right or 100% wrong.

 

[utvolpj]

You can find a clever word for anything if you're going all Frank Luntz about it.

Sure, taxes take away from our "total" freedom, but (at the risk of using the slippery slope argument) so do laws. No one is going to argue that reprehensible acts should be criminalized and disallowed - even though that infringes upon our freedom to do whatever we want to do. And while selfishness isn't criminalized, it certainly isn't good for society if the upper class is selfish to the point where they don't care about the plight of the less unfortunate.

if an action does not infringe on the rights of another then why would we need laws against it? No one is arguing to abolish all laws but it is becoming more way too big. Allow people to have more freedom, not less

Enforcing taxes to improve their situation may be "thievery" in the eyes of people who live in an advantageous situation, but in so many cases it is absolutely necessary not just for others to obtain a decent living, but for their own survival and basic needs. It may be forcing an act of moral decency, but it certainly is going to leave the world better off than to let people act in self-interest without consequences. If that belief makes me a Robin Hood, I think I can live with that.

and that needs to happen for a lifetime? For generations? Absolutely not but that's what it has become. How long does does and able-bodied adult in the US need assistance to provide for their own survival and basic needs? Now you're asking for more money to try and solve a problem that can't be fixed by enabling that lifestyle.

Didn't you hear? We know exactly how to solve problems for people whose shoes we've never spent a second of our lives in. And it conveniently happens to agree with our own political beliefs!

you might want to keep your assumptions to yourself

 

[utvolpj]

I disagree. It does take breaks to be securely successful in this country. Hard work no longer guarantees you anything. Working smart is laughable because most people think they are until they fall flat on their face.

then get up and move on. If you work hard and do the things necessary you can provide for yourself. Once you get to a certain level you can start providing for your family. If you're an able-bodied person in the US and can barely support yourself then it's likely you're doing it wrong. You should also think about bringing others into your situation (that doesn't happen much either)

 

[Weezer]

well I leave out the lazy rich since they aren't the ones asking for someone else's money. The govt isn't looking to raise their taxes because they're using more services than they pay for.

I'm all for helping those that truly need it get back on their feet but this has evolved past that.

That's part of the problem. You speak of people getting back on their feet. Inflation has made that almost impossible. Look at retail for example, do you think most people in lower level retail make a liveable wage? What about fast food or even service staff in fine dining? Do you realize the number of jobs in those industries and that many people are forced into it because they have no other options. Factory jobs that paid better money have been shipped out of the country. Why? For profit. We're killing ourselves.

 

[UTRavens]

I like to drop the father/daughter in at times like these.

Daughter comes home from college feeling pretty liberal about things. Life is not fiar for the poor, rich should pay more etc. Dad asks her a question, "how are your grades?"
Daughter says "my grades are fine, I'm carrying a full load but still have a 4.0. It's hard work and I don't have a social life to speak of, but that is the sacrifice you make to be successful."

Dad then asks "How are your roomate Laura's grades?"

"Well Laura is about to get kicked out! She parties all the time, rarely goes to class and is no even passing any of her classes."

Dad, "ok, then here is what I want you to do. Go to the dean and tell him you want to give part of your gpa to Laura. You have a 4.0, so you can afford to lose a couple of points and still pass with no problem. That way Laura will pass and everything will be fair, right?"

Daughter "No way, I worked for those grades and deserve to have a 4.0. It wouldn't be fair for me to just give Laura something she hasn't worked for. If she wants better grades, shr should work for them."

Dad, "welcome to the conservative world."


Sorry for typos, mobile!

People aren't born into poor GPAs. People who dedicate their entire college lives to school aren't going to get kicked out for poor grades.