obama to raise taxes by 5% on people who earn over $1 mil to pay for his healthcare

#101
#101
rjd970 said:
It makes you wonder how many had the intestinal fortitude to take a chance and it didn't work out. I don't have a clue about the statistics, but I would bet that the success stories aren't as plentiful as you suggest, we just hear about those more.

These broad sweeping generalizations are ridiculous. Are there those that take advantage of the situation? I'm sure there are. But bitching about everybody on welfare because a few are freeloaders is as stupid as the liberals bitching about the fatcat bonuses on wall street because there were a few bad apples that didn't do right.

Here's a thought for this thread...everybody on welfare is a pathetic freeloader that loves the life welfare brings them. Everybody on wall street is a greedy, corrupt, cash grabbing insider who exploits the the little guy. Healthcare for poor people is socialism, million dollar bonuses for wall streeters is corruption.
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:lolabove:

:eek:lol:

:rofl:
 
#102
#102
rjd970 said:
That was my point. You hear the success stories only. Quick, name me one guy that started out in rags and still ended up there anyway. My point is you hear about the guy that won the lottery, not the 2 million who lost...maybe a bad example, but you get the point of what I am saying.

What do you mean by "significant number" and "many people"? I think we have a different view on how widespread the problem really is.

...and my broad generalizations were made on purpose to point out the idiocy of it. It wasn't directed at you personally.
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the overwelming majority of people born into poverty probably don't get out of it. but i fail to see how welfare helps that problem. i'm all for need based scholorships and vouchers that allow the poor to attend private k-12.
 
#103
#103
droski said:
the overwelming majority of people born into poverty probably don't get out of it. but i fail to see how welfare helps that problem. i'm all for need based scholorships and vouchers that allow the poor to attend private k-12.
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I never said I wasn't. That sounds good to me.

Some people simply aren't fortunate enough to be born to good parents that instill values of hardwork, education, and self-reliance. Some aren't even given the chance from the get go, and other are actually taught to take advantage of the system. If a kid really wants to better himself and put forth the effort, he should be given the same opportunity everybody else has...and he shouldn't be looked down on because he needed state help to get him started.

Much of what Obama said to the NAACP about starting to parent and take responsibility and not rely on somebody else to do it resonates with this issue.
 
#104
#104
rjd970 said:
If a kid really wants to better himself and put forth the effort, he should be given the same opportunity everybody else has...and he shouldn't be looked down on because he needed state help to get him started.
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The problem is the state didn't help him get started; it effectively told him he never has to start. That is the tragedy.
 
#106
#106
rjd970 said:
I never said I wasn't. That sounds good to me.

Some people simply aren't fortunate enough to be born to good parents that instill values of hardwork, education, and self-reliance. Some aren't even given the chance from the get go, and other are actually taught to take advantage of the system. If a kid really wants to better himself and put forth the effort, he should be given the same opportunity everybody else has...and he shouldn't be looked down on because he needed state help to get him started.

Much of what Obama said to the NAACP about starting to parent and take responsibility and not rely on somebody else to do it resonates with this issue.
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Some parents worked hard and kept their families off government assistance and for whatever reason fall just above the threshold for government grants. These kids have to take out massive student loans to get their education while the kids of parents who received government assistance in many cases get free rides. How are you to tell one student they pay nothing and then tell the other if they want to go to school they have to mortgage their future earnings?

My point is life is full of examples of things not being equal, not everyone gets the same chances and benefits.
 
#107
#107
rjd970 said:
If a kid really wants to better himself and put forth the effort, he should be given the same opportunity everybody else has...and he shouldn't be looked down on because he needed state help to get him started.
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and this already doesn't happen?
 
#109
#109
KB5252 said:
My point is life is full of examples of things not being equal, not everyone gets the same chances and benefits.
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Exactly. So why bitch about a progressive tax system that funds this kind of stuff? Progressive tax systems aren't fair, but it is what it is.
 
#111
#111
rjd970 said:
Exactly. So why bitch about a progressive tax system that funds this kind of stuff? Progressive tax systems aren't fair, but it is what it is.
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And the bottom line still remains that the wealthy have money taken from them so the government can buy votes?

The rich and wealthy fund the majority of government programs and receive the least benefit. The poor fund nothing and receive almost all the benefits. The middle class get the shaft, they get little to no benefits.

Let's call this what it is. Government programs were started to act as a safety net for those who fell through the cracks. Government (democrats chiefly) realized this as a toll to garner votes from the public and quickly it became little more than a political tool, a toll that hurts those it was intended to help most. To be fair the rich and taxes are used to a lesser degree by the republicans. The problem here is that middle class are lost in all of this, and the middle class pay a significant portion of the taxes as well.
 
#112
#112
KB5252 said:
And the bottom line still remains that the wealthy have money taken from them so the government can buy votes?

The rich and wealthy fund the majority of government programs and receive the least benefit. The poor fund nothing and receive almost all the benefits. The middle class get the shaft, they get little to no benefits.

Let's call this what it is. Government programs were started to act as a safety net for those who fell through the cracks. Government (democrats chiefly) realized this as a toll to garner votes from the public and quickly it became little more than a political tool, a toll that hurts those it was intended to help most. To be fair the rich and taxes are used to a lesser degree by the republicans. The problem here is that middle class are lost in all of this, and the middle class pay a significant portion of the taxes as well.
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Again...I'm simply going to refer you to your own quote:

My point is life is full of examples of things not being equal, not everyone gets the same chances and benefits.
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I would say one group gets more chances, the other get more benefits. Both view their situations with a sense of inequity.
 
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