Obama vs McCain

[BigPapaVol]

I love how you guys assume I have a position which I haven't taken, and then immediately start attacking it, just so you can find something to criticize.

you might just be a bit too self absorbed about this. Nobody cares about your opinions. We were both just amusing ourselves.

 

[WA_Vol]

you might just be a bit too self absorbed about this. Nobody cares about your opinions. We were both just amusing ourselves.

Amusing yourself by making up politcal positions so you can attack them? What the dog isn't around for you to kick?

 

[BigPapaVol]

Amusing yourself by making up politcal positions so you can attack them? What the dog isn't around for you to kick?

no, just making the point that nobody made any assumption about you or even cared that you were the author. this is the most impersonal place on earth, why try to make it something it isn't?

 

[GAVol]

Where did I say I was even voting for Obama?

I have no earthly idea who you are voting for . . . hence the reason I asked the question. I couldn't figure out if you were supporting Obama despite his positions or just making a general statement. :good!:

 

[falseintellect]

Seriously, how different would Miss America's answers be than what we've heard from Obama to date?

if there is any politician about whom that is close to reality, its the current occupant of the white house.

about obama, like him or not, it really does not fit.

 

[GAVol]

about obama, like him or not, it really does not fit.

Come on . . . You've got to admit that Obama has a gift for big speeches and platitudes that lack specifics. And I'm not saying that it's a bad thing. Like you said, all politicians do it to a degree - just not as well as Obama.

 

[falseintellect]

Come on . . . You've got to admit that Obama has a gift for big speeches and platitudes that lack specifics. And I'm not saying that it's a bad thing. Like you said, all politicians do it to a degree - just not as well as Obama.

i dont think it's nearly as big a contrast with other candidates as it's made out to be. obama does it very, very well is all like you say.

his stump speeches contain no less policy then hillary's or mccains but they are just received with much more enthusiasm and both of the other two are trying to portray that as a negative. the ability to inspire people is not a negative quality in a president.

the idea that obama never talks about details or specifics is a talking point of the hillary and mccain campaigns and is a lot less reality and a lot more spin. the big victory/stump speeches get all the coverage but anyone with an actual desire to know more, does.

the miss america comparison made me think more of this type of answer, YouTube - Bush Speech on Tribal Sovereignty, rather then a lack of substance.

 

[U-T]

Pass



Probably Obama but I still may vote for McCain whom I have a lot of respect for

 

[falseintellect]

Pass



Probably Obama but I still may vote for McCain whom I have a lot of respect for

most everyone has a great deal of respect for John McCain, that is why he will be a good candidate and get a great deal of votes. obviously there's great respect for his service to the country.

i even very much respected and liked him as a politician before he started pandering to get the nomination.

im pretty liberal, but despite his recent pandering im glad he's the nominee because i think the maverick McCain was more inline with what he truly believes.

i also like Huckabee, i disagree with him on just about everything. in fact i flat out despise some of his social positions. but i do sense that he is extremely sincere and trustworthy. just like i could deal with Bush's completely opposite views to mine, if only i could trust a word he said.

that said... i voted for obama in the primary, and hope to do so again in the general.

 

[MG1968]

It won't matter who ends up being the democrat nominee. McCain will get trashed in the debates. It's going to be Dole/Kemp '96 all over again because I have a feeling he isn't going to choose a conservative like Newt Gingrich, JC Watts or Fred Thompson to be his VP.

McCain has no problem trashing his fellow republicans when they disagree with him over immigration reform, but he can't bring himself to use anything stronger than "liberal" to describe Hillary or Obama.

 

[volinbham]

i even very much respected and liked him as a politician before he started pandering to get the nomination.

that said... i voted for obama in the primary, and hope to do so again in the general.

So you believe that Obama has not engaged any pandering?

 

[BigPapaVol]

So you believe that Obama has not engaged any pandering?

Is pandering somehow akin to simply saying what potential constituents want to hear, regardless of reality.

 

[volinbham]

:yes:

 

[KB5252]

It's kind of like having to pick between a heart attack and a stroke!

 

[falseintellect]

So you believe that Obama has not engaged any pandering?

he is a politician, is he not?

Obama has not had to change major positions in order to run, though. McCain has.

I don't believe McCain actually believes any differently, but I respected him more for saying what he believed. Supreme court is a big reason i will vote Obama but if there is any Republican i trust on that it is McCain, despite what he says.

 

[BigPapaVol]

he is a politician, is he not?

Obama has not had to change major positions in order to run, though. McCain has.

I don't believe McCain actually believes any differently, but I respected him more for saying what he believed. Supreme court is a big reason i will vote Obama but if there is any Republican i trust on that it is McCain, despite what he says.

Obama has also never, ever, been in a position to have to enact a plan and live with the results. He has rarely voted and had to support his decisions.

In effect, he has had no positions aside from the theoretical and we all love socialism as described in textbooks. It's the practical application that becomes a bit of a rub, but how would he know?

As to the court, Obama is the only candidate of the past 20 years that would reappoint Ruth Bader Ginsburg if it were required. That thought makes me want to hurl.

 

[volinbham]

he is a politician, is he not?

Obama has not had to change major positions in order to run, though. McCain has.

I don't believe McCain actually believes any differently, but I respected him more for saying what he believed.

I'm not clear on the major position changes from McCain.

He's downplayed some of his less popular positions and highlighted some others but where has he made major changes?

 

[WA_Vol]

I'm not clear on the major position changes from McCain.

He's downplayed some of his less popular positions and highlighted some others but where has he made major changes?

amnesty for illegals

On a sidenote, I don't think the majority of voters remember the Keating 5, I suspect Obama will remind them what happened. Obama will paint McCain as the establishment candidate, as he did against Hilliary. I don't think McCain will win.

 

[TennTradition]

So, I had to look up the Keating 5 to learn about what this was several months ago. Popular knocks on McCain are immigration, Keating 5, and campaign finance reform. I think that I have a misconception about either the Keating 5 or campaign finance reform - because it seems to me that efforts to reform campaign finance would tend to discourage future Keating 5 fiascos. So, which one don't I understand?

 

[falseintellect]

Obama has also never, ever, been in a position to have to enact a plan and live with the results. He has rarely voted and had to support his decisions.

In effect, he has had no positions aside from the theoretical and we all love socialism as described in textbooks. It's the practical application that becomes a bit of a rub, but how would he know?

As to the court, Obama is the only candidate of the past 20 years that would reappoint Ruth Bader Ginsburg if it were required. That thought makes me want to hurl.

He has certainly been on the record with nearly every position of significance either by word or vote.

I'm afraid I find Scalia significantly more worthy of "hurling" then Ginsburg. I can only assume that's mainly a product of her positions on Roe v Wade.. Ironic that Kennedy/O'Connor/Souter were all Reagan/Bush appointees.

Considering McCain was against overturning Roe v Wade until pressure from party and prolife groups threatening his career caused a change of heart, I'd trust his nominees more then most republicans.

I'm not clear on the major position changes from McCain.

He's downplayed some of his less popular positions and highlighted some others but where has he made major changes?

theres plenty of examples, roe v wade, bush tax cuts, immigration, torture...

i agree a lot of it is highlighting and downplaying but the fact is, he is backing down on a lot of his biggest issues in order to please his party. the across the aisles respect was based on his standing for what he believed in even if his party didnt, and he's lost a lot of that.

 

[volinbham]

amnesty for illegals

On a sidenote, I don't think the majority of voters remember the Keating 5, I suspect Obama will remind them what happened.

I don't see a major change in his position on illegal immigration. It is labeled as amnesty but it is not true amnesty since there are penalties for those here illegally.

Considering McCain was against overturning Roe v Wade until pressure from party and prolife groups threatening his career caused a change of heart, I'd trust his nominees more then most republicans.



theres plenty of examples, roe v wade, bush tax cuts, immigration, torture...

i agree a lot of it is highlighting and downplaying but the fact is, he is backing down on a lot of his biggest issues in order to please his party. the across the aisles respect was based on his standing for what he believed in even if his party didnt, and he's lost a lot of that.

There is a large difference between backing down (de-emphasizing) from a position and changing a position.

Is he in favor of torture now?

Was he pro-choice before but now pro-life?

Is he now in favor of deporting all illegal aliens?

I don't know his reasoning for voting against the tax cuts at the time but do know that tax cuts are a form of fiscal stimulus - perhaps he sees that as more important now than then. He's also been a consistent support of tax cuts in general and more importantly, spending reductions.

I don't see McCain doing any more or less pandering than Obama is doing.

 

[zknott03]

he is a politician, is he not?

Obama has not had to change major positions in order to run, though. McCain has.

I don't believe McCain actually believes any differently, but I respected him more for saying what he believed. Supreme court is a big reason i will vote Obama but if there is any Republican i trust on that it is McCain, despite what he says.

This is probably in part because Obama hasn't been a politican long enough to change a position

 

[truefan]

I keep hearing from the far right how Obama is "weak' on terrorism. I want to see some proof of his weakness. Because he is against the war in Iraq? That is certainly no barometer. We ARE NOT defending OUR country in Iraq. Every plan Obama has laid out says he is strong against terrorism. He has stated, over and over, that he is fully committed to keeping troops and military presence in Afghanistan and the pursuit of Osama Bin Laden.

Please for once,one of you right wingers, give an example showing Obama is weak on terrorism

 

[coffeevol]

Uh-oh, somebody drank the Kool-aid

 

[MG1968]

I keep hearing from the far right how Obama is "weak' on terrorism. I want to see some proof of his weakness. Because he is against the war in Iraq? That is certainly no barometer. We ARE NOT defending OUR country in Iraq. Every plan Obama has laid out says he is strong against terrorism. He has stated, over and over, that he is fully committed to keeping troops and military presence in Afghanistan and the pursuit of Osama Bin Laden.

Please for once,one of you right wingers, give an example showing Obama is weak on terrorism

Obama is willing to sit down and negotiate with Mahmoud Ahmadenijad.

Obama is also tied to Raila Odinga, Kenya's "opposition" leader who vowed to forcibly institute Sharia law. Odinga's Islamist followers have been rampaging throughout Kenya murdering people, particularly Christians. In 2006, Obama actively campaigned for Odinga, appearing with him in a number of campaign stops.

Several of Obama's advisers are virulent anti-Semites, specifically Samantha Power. The pastor of his church in Chicago is also anti-semitic.

Obama has said he wants to have a "Muslim Summit", not a Middle East Summit, which would include Israel.