obama will require all businesses to have breast feeding rooms

#51
#51
VolInMn said:
That's one helluva Pandora's Box you'd be opening, there.
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I dont think so!!

I believe the reason a lot of people make bad decisions in life is because they know someone will be there to take care of the problem afterwards.

Almost ever entitlement program has been brought on by people who have made unwise decisions and now need help getting out.

For example, and not knocking anyone:

Joe and Mary want kids. But Joe and Mary both have to work to make ends meet.They barely have enough money to pay the bills. They decide to have a child. How do they expect to take on that extra cost to raise that child? Doctor bills, formula, diapers, etc. Well, they decide they cant afford it a wait till they can.

John and Jaine are in the same boat as Joe and Mary but instead of realizing their limitations, they use the entitlement crutch. "Well, thats what they have WICK for" "We pay taxes, we deserve to use it".

Who made the correct decision?
 
#52
#52
You've given two examples of hundreds of possibilities. Unfortunately, life is hardly as black and white as that. Are you going to make individual decisions for every possibility and judge whether a person is worthy of help?

-What of the woman on birth control who still got pregnant?
-What of the woman who's mate left her when he found out she was pregnant?
-What of the couple who had plenty of money when they got pregnant but lost job(s) or had other unforeseen expenses?
-What of the person who simply made a mistake and wound up pregnant?
 
#53
#53
It's really not very difficult to not get pregnant if you don't want to. and no i'm not talking about not having sex.
 
#58
#58
VolInMn said:
You've given two examples of hundreds of possibilities. Unfortunately, life is hardly as black and white as that. Are you going to make individual decisions for every possibility and judge whether a person is worthy of help?

-What of the woman on birth control who still got pregnant?
.01 % chance of this occuring
-What of the woman who's mate left her when he found out she was pregnant?
Thats why sitting down and discussing pregnancy with your husband is essential. If he doesn't want children, then why would you take the chance of getting pregnant. Also, if she is not married, why is she getting pregnant?
-What of the couple who had plenty of money when they got pregnant but lost job(s) or had other unforeseen expenses?
That would be an exception. They couldnt help that. Also, dont put all your eggs in one basket. Both incomes being employed by the same company is never good. Would you invest all your money in one stock?
-What of the person who simply made a mistake and wound up pregnant?
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As Droski said, its not that hard to not get pregnant.
 
#59
#59
VolInMn said:
Ahh yes. Because birth control is 100% effective. Of course.
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the pill is pretty damn close to 100% effective if you take it properly. only exceptions are the morbidly obese and the occasional genetic freak. 99.9% of women don't fit in this category. edit: count volcula beat me to it
 
#60
#60
VolInMn said:
You've given two examples of hundreds of possibilities. Unfortunately, life is hardly as black and white as that. Are you going to make individual decisions for every possibility and judge whether a person is worthy of help?

-What of the woman on birth control who still got pregnant?
-What of the woman who's mate left her when he found out she was pregnant?
-What of the couple who had plenty of money when they got pregnant but lost job(s) or had other unforeseen expenses?
-What of the person who simply made a mistake and wound up pregnant?
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things happen, still no rationale for what we're talking about.

she shouldn't have been dating someone only interested in the sex

if they had plenty of money when they had jobs, they should have been smart, especially once she found out she was pregnant. remember, improper planning on your part doesn't constitute a crisis on mine.

we're back to my previous point, which was said somewhat in jest, but is true, she should have kept her legs closed.
 
#61
#61
VolInMn said:
I assumed you were all family oriented men and would want for your SO to have a proper place to pump breast milk during the day since it's better for the baby than formula.
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That isn't the issue here. Sure, there are some mothers that have a difficult time breastfeeding at work. However, it is hard to argue that this is any more than an extremely small segment of the population. In light of how few people are affected by this dilemma, does it really make sense to force all businesses (unless they have under 50 employees and can show undue hardship) to segregate an otherwise productive use of space for an unproductive purpose that may never even be utilized?
 
#62
#62
It comes down to people wanting others to pay for their flawed decisions.

No different than buying a $300,000 house when you make, $50,000 a year. Then expecting the taxpayer to bail you out when you cant make the payment.
 
#63
#63
CountVolcula said:
-What of the woman on birth control who still got pregnant?
.01 % chance of this occuring
-What of the woman who's mate left her when he found out she was pregnant?
Thats why sitting down and discussing pregnancy with your husband is essential. If he doesn't want children, then why would you take the chance of getting pregnant. Also, if she is not married, why is she getting pregnant?
-What of the couple who had plenty of money when they got pregnant but lost job(s) or had other unforeseen expenses?
That would be an exception. They couldnt help that. Also, dont put all your eggs in one basket. Both incomes being employed by the same company is never good. Would you invest all your money in one stock?

As Droski said, its not that hard to not get pregnant.
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Do you really, honestly believe life is this cut and dried, dude? You want to sit and give me reasons why none of the things I've mentioned should ever happen, but they do.

People leave mates despite whatever "talks" they might have had beforehand. People lose jobs or have huge expenses they simply can't foresee.

And unless you intend to push your morals on other people, the whole "why is she getting pregnant if she wasn't married" idea is ludicrous.
 
#64
#64
paul1454 said:
Effectively exempted if under 50 employees.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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Okay, so after reading the bill, it appears this is not so cut and dry. Essentially, the bill applies to everyone. Employers that have less than 50 employees may be able to avoid the requirement only if they can show that making this accommodation "would impose an undue hardship by causing the employer significant difficulty or expense when considered in relation to the size, financial resources, nature, or structure of the employer’s business."
 
#66
#66
VolInMn said:
Do you really, honestly believe life is this cut and dried, dude? You want to sit and give me reasons why none of the things I've mentioned should ever happen, but they do.

People leave mates despite whatever "talks" they might have had beforehand. People lose jobs or have huge expenses they simply can't foresee.

And unless you intend to push your morals on other people, the whole "why is she getting pregnant if she wasn't married" idea is ludicrous.
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the question remains whether their mistakes or even bad luck are societies problems. they chose to have the child for whatever reasons (remember abortion is legal). society didn't make that choice adn therefore shouldn't have to pay for it.
 
#67
#67
droski said:
the pill is pretty damn close to 100% effective if you take it properly. only exceptions are the morbidly obese and the occasional genetic freak. 99.9% of women don't fit in this category. edit: count volcula beat me to it
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Taking antibiotics degrades it's effectiveness. I know more than one person that made that mistake.
 
#68
#68
I wonder if any business owner will come forward and say, "I'm shutting my 50+ person shop down because I have to have a private area for breast pumping."

I wonder if a small business owner will come forward in about five years and say, "Because the GOP repealed health insurance reform after the 2010 midterms, I had to cancel the policy for my 12 employees or else I'd have gone bankrupt. But, the big guys up the block offer benefits, so everyone who knew what they were doing has left and I'm out of business because I can't compete."
 
#69
#69
lawgator1 said:
I wonder if any business owner will come forward and say, "I'm shutting my 50+ person shop down because I have to have a private area for breast pumping."

I wonder if a small business owner will come forward in about five years and say, "Because the GOP repealed health insurance reform after the 2010 midterms, I had to cancel the policy for my 12 employees or else I'd have gone bankrupt. But, the big guys up the block offer benefits, so everyone who knew what they were doing has left and I'm out of business because I can't compete."
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They wont!! But it doesnt make it right
 
#70
#70
lawgator1 said:
I wonder if any business owner will come forward and say, "I'm shutting my 50+ person shop down because I have to have a private area for breast pumping."

I wonder if a small business owner will come forward in about five years and say, "Because the GOP repealed health insurance reform after the 2010 midterms, I had to cancel the policy for my 12 employees or else I'd have gone bankrupt. But, the big guys up the block offer benefits, so everyone who knew what they were doing has left and I'm out of business because I can't compete."
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No they won't. They'll rent and renovate the space and hire back one less person. The math isn't hard.

Entrepreneurs work hard to keep what they've built, but they make rational financial decisions and that means protection of a bottom line that is about to be pilfered to pay for HC coverage.

You don't like black and white, good luck.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#71
#71
lawgator1 said:
I wonder if any business owner will come forward and say, "I'm shutting my 50+ person shop down because I have to have a private area for breast pumping."

I wonder if a small business owner will come forward in about five years and say, "Because the GOP repealed health insurance reform after the 2010 midterms, I had to cancel the policy for my 12 employees or else I'd have gone bankrupt. But, the big guys up the block offer benefits, so everyone who knew what they were doing has left and I'm out of business because I can't compete."
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As I said before....the idea isn't the worst, it's the principle of government intruding where it has no business that's the real issue here. I would say the same thing if it were republicans legislating some faux morality initiative.
 
#72
#72
lawgator1 said:
I wonder if any business owner will come forward and say, "I'm shutting my 50+ person shop down because I have to have a private area for breast pumping."

I wonder if a small business owner will come forward in about five years and say, "Because the GOP repealed health insurance reform after the 2010 midterms, I had to cancel the policy for my 12 employees or else I'd have gone bankrupt. But, the big guys up the block offer benefits, so everyone who knew what they were doing has left and I'm out of business because I can't compete."
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Don't limit the hypothetical to businesses with 50+ employees. This requirement applies across the board. Those employers with 49 or fewer employees, however, may be able to get out of the requirement by showing compliance would impose an undue hardship.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#73
#73
lawgator1 said:
I wonder if any business owner will come forward and say, "I'm shutting my 50+ person shop down because I have to have a private area for breast pumping."

I wonder if a small business owner will come forward in about five years and say, "Because the GOP repealed health insurance reform after the 2010 midterms, I had to cancel the policy for my 12 employees or else I'd have gone bankrupt. But, the big guys up the block offer benefits, so everyone who knew what they were doing has left and I'm out of business because I can't compete."
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You and I both know it doesn't work that way. What happens in situations where mandates are handed down to companies is they accept the expense and then pass that along to the consumers of whatever product or service they make, sell or provide.

Like I said earlier it isn't so much about this one mandate but the effects multiple mandates have over time.
 
#74
#74
droski said:
i see. so you think this is something that needs to be legislated?
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Businesses are required to have restrooms. That's legislation. What is the difference?

Plus it promotes breastfeeding by making it more accessible. The fact that breastfeeding contributes to a healthier, smarter child is not a debatable one.
 
#75
#75
Sabanocchio said:
Businesses are required to have restrooms. That's legislation. What is the difference?

Plus it promotes breastfeeding by making it more accessible. The fact that breastfeeding contributes to a healthier, smarter child is not a debatable one.
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I don't necessarily disagree with your logic, but I do think there's a big difference. e.g. - everyone uses the bathroom and not having them would actually decrease productivity if employees had to go offsite somewhere. However, not everyone produces breast milk and not all mothers who do even want to use a breast pump.

I fully support breast feeding because as you say it is healthier for the child, and if I recall I think also better for the mother. However, having to set aside space for this will be a big waste in most situations.
 
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