Obamacare Survives SCOTUS

[volinbham]

Costs haven't skyrocketed in any appreciable way that they were prior to the ACA. I've shown you those facts. You ignoring them doesn't make them cease to exist.

You still aren't wrapping your head that I'm not defending the ACA, just your inability to grasp that you've not offered up any cogent alternative. In fact, thus far all you've managed to do is let everyone know that you really don't gas about the uninsured Americans.

Pretending you care about the government costs is icing on a sheet cake full of bullsh*t.

actually, he did offer an alternative

 

[Septic]

I'd argue with the mediocre outcomes part. Procedure to procedure comparisons have us coming out on par with the best. Broader stats (like mortality or infant mortality) are confounded by things like our murder rate (compared to other OECD countries) or access to care issues (the last part of your comment above).

Coming out on par sounds great until you look at the price tag and realize we're paying multiples of what other countries are paying. And have been, long before the ACA...

 

[Septic]

actually, he did offer an alternative

The "do nothing" approach? That's not a solution to getting uninsured Americans coverage. It's a solution to make him feel better about not footing the bill for the less fortunate.

 

[volinbham]

The "do nothing" approach? That's not a solution to getting uninsured Americans coverage. It's a solution to make him feel better about not footing the bill for the less fortunate.

he mentioned a specific change to laws the would reduce costs - lower costs increases access. It also addresses the bankruptcy issue

ACA still left the bulk of the uninsured, uninsured.

honestly the bar is pretty low to offer an alternate to ACA that would be at least as good

 

[volinbham]

Coming out on par sounds great until you look at the price tag and realize we're paying multiples of what other countries are paying. And have been, long before the ACA...

still, it's not mediocre.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Costs haven't skyrocketed in any appreciable way that they were prior to the ACA. I've shown you those facts. You ignoring them doesn't make them cease to exist.

You still aren't wrapping your head that I'm not defending the ACA, just your inability to grasp that you've not offered up any cogent alternative. In fact, thus far all you've managed to do is let everyone know that you really don't gas about the uninsured Americans.

Pretending you care about the government costs is icing on a sheet cake full of bullsh*t.

Bull **** costs have gone up and multiple projects have provided information stating it while you ignore that back

And you are defending the ACA in trying to transfer on us to provide a better alternative with you saying “no? Whelp I guess the ACA is as good as it gets.” Bull ****

I gave you an example of the kind of legislation we need more of. Your estrogen laden emotional plea to keep people out of bankruptcy by unexpected costs was answered in December 2020 and it goes into effect in Jan 2022. Thanks Trump! And that is the kind of legislation we need more of not crap pushing us towards inefficient single payer models. Stop arguing just to argue and read the damn link. It greatly impacts prefatory billing practices by stopping Balance Billing which is the major source of dread for most of us. Just go read it if you aren’t familiar with it. Texas did this in 2018 but due to ERISA plans which are federally regulated the state rules don’t impact this. In 2022 100M+ Americans will have this protection. THAT is the kind of legislation we need, it preserves private insurers while preventing predatory billing.

 

[NorthDallas40]

he mentioned a specific change to laws the would reduce costs - lower costs increases access. It also addresses the bankruptcy issue

ACA still left the bulk of the uninsured, uninsured.

honestly the bar is pretty low to offer an alternate to ACA that would be at least as good

Bingo.

 

[NorthDallas40]

The "do nothing" approach? That's not a solution to getting uninsured Americans coverage. It's a solution to make him feel better about not footing the bill for the less fortunate.

Get you head out of your ass and stop typing and scroll back.

 

[volinbham]

Just an FYI; there's a concept in healthcare called the Iron Triangle - basically cost, quality and access; not all can be simultaneously increased. There are trade offs. Others have adapted this to the Iron Square and added a fourth component "choice".

Given our history of valuing individual choice we see the challenge of reforming US healthcare (or at least how it's paid for). The M4A crowd is willing to sacrifice choice for access (not clear that it would reduce costs or increase quality).

 

[Septic]

still, it's not mediocre.

Paying twice as much for average outcomes is how I'd label a mediocre system.

Infographic: U.S. Healthcare Spending

 

[NorthDallas40]

Paying twice as much for average outcomes is how I'd label a mediocre system.

Infographic: U.S. Healthcare Spending

Here since you won’t stop flapping your gums and read. THIS is what we need coming out of Congress. This takes legislation which has been moving thru many state regulated insurance and extrapolates to federal regulated plans. It proves more consistent billing expectations and eliminates crazy ridiculous surprise bills … all while leaving private insurance alone. You’re welcome.

Federal Surprise Balance Billing Legislation: Key Takeaways - abeo

 

[volinbham]

Paying twice as much for average outcomes is how I'd label a mediocre system.

Infographic: U.S. Healthcare Spending

bit of goal post shifting - outcomes are health outcomes; you are adding outcomes/cost and the infographic includes things like life expectancy which if you do some research you'll see our's is lower due to our high murder rate and # of people that don't seek care.

if you get care in the US (as most citizens do) it is good care. maybe it could be delivered at lower cost but that doesn't change the quality of care delivered.

 

[NorthDallas40]

bit of goal post shifting - outcomes are health outcomes; you are adding outcomes/cost and the infographic includes things like life expectancy which if you do some research you'll see our's is lower due to our high murder rate and # of people that don't seek care.

if you get care in the US (as most citizens do) it is good care. maybe it could be delivered at lower cost but that doesn't change the quality of care delivered.

The quality of care argument is so worn out as it doesn’t account for the innovation the US market provides the entire world which turn we have to compare on par to after absorbing those developmental costs. I think it’s three of the largest five pharmaceutical companies are headquartered in the US? And all developments here go freely to all markets.

So let’s stop all that investment today and let the EU take care of it then we will ride their coat tails.

 

[Septic]

Bull **** costs have gone up and multiple projects have provided information stating it while you ignore that back

And you are defending the ACA in trying to transfer on us to provide a better alternative with you saying “no? Whelp I guess the ACA is as good as it gets.” Bull ****

I gave you an example of the kind of legislation we need more of. Your estrogen laden emotional plea to keep people out of bankruptcy by unexpected costs was answered in December 2020 and it goes into effect in Jan 2022. Thanks Trump! And that is the kind of legislation we need more of not crap pushing us towards inefficient single payer models. Stop arguing just to argue and read the damn link. It greatly impacts prefatory billing practices by stopping Balance Billing which is the major source of dread for most of us. Just go read it if you aren’t familiar with it. Texas did this in 2018 but due to ERISA plans which are federally regulated the state rules don’t impact this. In 2022 100M+ Americans will have this protection. THAT is the kind of legislation we need, it preserves private insurers while preventing predatory billing.

Careful, you're getting emotional. I provided facts the poured cold water on your personal anecdotes.

Despite you're insistence in misrepresenting my point, Ill reiterate for the umpteenth time the ACA is bad and that it's flawed beyond repair.

I won't point out the irony in your looking to more government legislation to help get uninsured people insu.... wait, your solution doesn't do that at all. Get rid of predatory billing? That's the solution?

At least little Johnnies chemo will be billed without some extra fees now, that will make his parents bankruptcy taste much sweeter.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Careful, you're getting emotional. I provided facts the poured cold water on your personal anecdotes.

Despite you're insistence in misrepresenting my point, Ill reiterate for the umpteenth time the ACA is bad and that it's flawed beyond repair.

I won't point out the irony in your looking to more government legislation to help get uninsured people insu.... wait, your solution doesn't do that at all. Get rid of predatory billing? That's the solution?

At least little Johnnies chemo will be billed without some extra fees now, that will make his parents bankruptcy taste much sweeter.

Lulz. Rekt. It’s pretty damn ground breaking legislation and you have to soft sell it to save face. Go sleep it off

 

[Septic]

bit of goal post shifting - outcomes are health outcomes; you are adding outcomes/cost and the infographic includes things like life expectancy which if you do some research you'll see our's is lower due to our high murder rate and # of people that don't seek care.

if you get care in the US (as most citizens do) it is good care. maybe it could be delivered at lower cost but that doesn't change the quality of care delivered.

I said it was mediocre.

I believe it to be average. On par. It's not terrible, it's not great either.

Either way, you're arguing over a word that's subjective.

 

[Septic]

Lulz. Rekt. It’s pretty damn ground breaking legislation and you have to soft sell it to save face. Go sleep it off

Lol, you found legislation on "predatory billing" and are trying to pass it off as a solution to getting millions of uninsured Americans healthcare security.

Did you do that with a straight face?

 

[volinbham]

I said it was mediocre.

I believe it to be average. On par. It's not terrible, it's not great either.

Either way, you're arguing over a word that's subjective.

given you have insurance, and you could magically travel to any other country without any burden/discomfort/inconvenience which countries would you choose over the US for say a heart bypass or cancer treatment?

 

[NorthDallas40]

Lol, you found legislation on "predatory billing" and are trying to pass it off as a solution to getting millions of Americans healthcare security.

Did you do that with a straight face?

That is exactly what it does sweetie. The ACA wasn’t moving the needle on lowering the uninsured so to hell will moving farther toward single payer. However consistent predictive provider costs do indeed lower the impact of unseen high medical bills and address the major issue that most of us dread if you would have read the link you would know that. I’m sorry I didn’t bring you the rock you wanted but that’s the rock we were given and ill take it over chasing more bad money after the ACA.

Edit: oh and the out of pocket cost to each of us over this legislation that you’re dead panning? Zero. While providing protection from predatory billing that is a large driver for concern on the majority of us.

 

[Septic]

That is exactly what it does sweetie. The ACA wasn’t moving the needle on lowering the uninsured so to hell will moving farther toward single payer. However consistent predictive provider costs do indeed lower the impact of unseen high medical bills and address the major issue that most of us dread if you would have read the link you would know that. I’m sorry I didn’t bring you the rock you wanted but that’s the rock we were given and ill take it over chasing more bad money after the ACA.

You're getting emotional again, "sweetie."

I read it and it's like putting neosporin on the knee of someone whose been hit by a bus. It's helpful, just not to what the actual issue is.

Tell me, how is anti predatory billing laws that make it so in-network rates must be used going to matter to someone who doesn't have insurance to begin with?

Did you even read your link?

 

[NorthDallas40]

You're getting emotional again, sweetie.

I read it and it's like putting neosporin on the knee of someone who's been hit by a bus. It's helpful, just not to what the actual issue is.

Tell me, how is anti predatory billing laws that make it so in-network rates must be used going to matter to someone who doesn't have insurance to begin with?

Did you even read your link?

Oh I read it. And it’s convenient that it doesn’t scratch YOUR itch but boy it sure does do it for a very large number of us. (100M+…)

You are never going to sell me on single payer. Nor are you going to sell the majority.

The ACA is available today for those who want it. They chose against it. The poverty level is already covered by Medicaid.

your hot air doesn’t pass muster.

 

[Septic]

Oh I read it. And it’s convenient that it doesn’t scratch YOUR itch but boy it sure does do it for a very large number of us.

You are never going to sell me on single payer. Nor are you going to sell the majority.

The ACA is available today for those who want it. They chose against it. The poverty level is already covered by Medicaid.

your hot air doesn’t pass muster.

Its not convenient and I'm not trying to sell anything, your "solution" literally doesn't do anything to shore up what has been my whole point from the beginning. That is, offer up a solution to get uninsured Americans coverage. Your rebuttal was legislation to curb "predatory billing" for people with insurance.

Dumb.

Its easy to have a cavalier attitude when you're a have, just have the stones to admit that you simply don't care about the have nots.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Its not convenient, it literally doesn't do anything to shore up what has been my whole point from the beginning. That is, offer up a solution to get uninsured Americans coverage. Your rebuttal was legislation to curb "predatory billing" for people with insurance.

Dumb.

Its easy to have a cavalier attitude when you're a have, just have the strobes to admit that you simply don't care about the have nots.

Your “point” is hollow. There are vehicles today for people that want to prioritize healthcare and protections for the poor in Medicaid. And starting in 2022 the majority of us will have more consistent and predictable healthcare costs that are only available to state regulated plans is a big win for the whole country. That it doesn’t pass your own “that’s not good enough” bar is for you to reconcile. Go find a cloud to shout at.

 

[Septic]

Your “point” is hollow. There are vehicles today for people that want to prioritize healthcare and protections for the poor in Medicaid. And starting in 2022 the majority of us will have more consistent and predictable healthcare costs that are only available to state regulated plans is a big win for the whole country. That it doesn’t pass your own “that’s not good enough” bar is for you to reconcile. Go find a cloud to shout at.

Being concerned that millions of Americans are uninsured is a "hollow" point? And recognition of that makes me "emotional" in your opinion? Sheez, the right has gone from owning the moral high ground narrative to complete abandonment of it.

Your article is completely irrelevant to my entire argument, a toddler could understand that you're attempting to use it as a crutch to hide the fact you have no legs and are simply looking to save face. Or maybe you didn't even read it and thought I wouldn't either... Stop digging.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Being concerned that millions of Americans are uninsured is a "hollow" point? And recognition of that makes me "emotional" in your opinion? Sheez, the right has gone from owning the high ground narrative to complete abandonment of it.

Your article is completely irrelevant to my entire argument, a toddler could understand that you're attempting to use it as a crutch to support the fact you gave no legs are simply looking to save face. Stop digging.

LMAO. Why aren’t you out there screaming at those people who won’t sign up for ACA? Why punish us with your virtue signaling hey I ponied up the money

Go find that cloud to yell at.