Obamacare Survives SCOTUS

[Septic]

LMAO. Why aren’t you out there screaming at those people who won’t sign up for ACA? Why punish us with your virtue signaling hey I ponied up the money

Go find that cloud to yell at.

I was wondering when you'd resort to deflection.

Because the ACA is bad and was undermined to predictably be worse. Geezus, have you been paying attention at all?

 

[NorthDallas40]

Because the ACA is bad and was undermined to predictably be worse. Geezus, have you been paying attention at all?

The ACA is available now. Hey like you said “whelp if you can’t come up with a better idea!”

Ok champ it’s there. Anybody that wants to prioritize healthcare can go for it. And if they don’t make the money they get subsidies or outright Medicaid. You assume these people actually want to pay for it instead of just wanting it given to them. I’d guess it’s a mix of both.

Instead of beating us up with your useless virtue signaling go shout down some people that still won’t give in and buy the healthcare you demand they buy. And go find that cloud while you’re at it too

We’re never going to agree. Virtue signal all you want. It’s there if they want it. And you screaming at us isn’t going to make them get it. But hey if it makes you feel virtuous and all…

 

[Septic]

The ACA is available now. Hey like you said “whelp if you can’t come up with a better idea!”

Ok champ it’s there. Anybody that wants to prioritize healthcare can go for it. And if they don’t make the money they get subsidies or outright Medicaid. You assume these people actually want to pay for it instead of just wanting it given to them. I’d guess it’s a mix of both.

Instead of beating us up with your useless virtue signaling go shout down some people that still won’t give in and buy the healthcare you demand they buy. And go find that cloud while you’re at it too

We’re never going to agree. Virtue signal all you want. It’s there if they want it. And you screaming at us isn’t going to make them get it. But hey if it makes you feel virtuous and all…

Shouting at clouds and screaming? Deflections about virtue signaling? Yawn. I guess I'd fall back to that too if I tried to float a "ground breaking" legislative solution to a problem that wasn't being argued.

It's fun to watch you flounder and have to awkwardly tiptoe around calling the plight of millions of uninsured a "hollow" point and then pivot to expressing that any concern over these people is "virtue signaling."

The ACA was and is designed (albeit poorly) to help the uninsured and this thread was created to discuss it. Repeating a buzz word like "virtue signaling" isn't the flex you think it is.

Seriously though - you should have led with that gem, it'd have saved everyone a bunch of time by letting everyone know you simply don't give a sh*t about anyone but yourself and don't understand or care to understand why the ACA was ever contemplated to begin with.

 

[Sea Ray]

The ACA is available now. Hey like you said “whelp if you can’t come up with a better idea!”

Ok champ it’s there. Anybody that wants to prioritize healthcare can go for it. And if they don’t make the money they get subsidies or outright Medicaid. You assume these people actually want to pay for it instead of just wanting it given to them. I’d guess it’s a mix of both.

Instead of beating us up with your useless virtue signaling go shout down some people that still won’t give in and buy the healthcare you demand they buy. And go find that cloud while you’re at it too

We’re never going to agree. Virtue signal all you want. It’s there if they want it. And you screaming at us isn’t going to make them get it. But hey if it makes you feel virtuous and all…

It's there? $7500 deductible. Is that really health insurance? I'll tell you what's not there: coverage in all 50 states. Is that too much to ask of Obamacare? On the marketplace here in Ohio we have no option of a plan that'll cover you out of Ohio. How does that cover a kid at college? How does that cover you if you're on vacation or whatever? It's nuts

 

[NorthDallas40]

Shouting at clouds and screaming? Deflections about virtue signaling? Yawn. I guess I'd fall back to that too if I tried to float a "ground breaking" legislative solution to a problem that wasn't being argued.

It's fun to watch you flounder and have to awkwardly tiptoe around calling the plight of millions of uninsured a "hollow" point and then pivot to expressing that any concern over these people is "virtue signaling."

The ACA was and is designed (albeit poorly) to help the uninsured and this thread was created to discuss it. Repeating a buzz word like "virtue signaling" isn't the flex you think it is.

Seriously though - you should have led with that gem, it'd have saved everyone a bunch of time by letting everyone know you simply don't give a sh*t about anyone but yourself and don't understand or care to understand why the ACA was ever contemplated to begin with.

Lulz. Your government took action in December 2020 to address your concerns. Thanks Trump and you’re welcome

 

[NorthDallas40]

It's there? $7500 deductible. Is that really health insurance? I'll tell you what's not there: coverage in all 50 states. Is that too much to ask of Obamacare? On the marketplace here in Ohio we have no option of a plan that'll cover you out of Ohio. How does that cover a kid at college? How does that cover you if you're on vacation or whatever? It's nuts

Yeah it’s there. And I’m glad I don’t have to use it but its there. And it’s existence screwed up everyone else’s plan so no thank you on screwing up our coverage even more. I’ll take your word for that being the case on OH but wasn’t one of the keys on the ACA uniform coverage across the nation? How can OH stand out like that and I’ve never heard it mentioned about another state.

But in what you’re saying, so we’ve screwed up the cost of literally everyone else’s coverage to provide even lousy benefits under the ACA so now all we have to do is throw more money after it and this time we got it? No thanks. And single payer/M4A oh hell no.

The ACA is the law of the land and now 4-0 on defending it. Also currently more than 9 in 10 nationwide have insurance, the number of uninsured is somewhere between 25 and 30 million I think. So I’m a no on breaking what’s left for everyone to close on what’s left of people don’t want to access what is available.

 

[NorthDallas40]

It's there? $7500 deductible. Is that really health insurance? I'll tell you what's not there: coverage in all 50 states. Is that too much to ask of Obamacare? On the marketplace here in Ohio we have no option of a plan that'll cover you out of Ohio. How does that cover a kid at college? How does that cover you if you're on vacation or whatever? It's nuts

So I went and looked up our corporate plan limits. I’m assuming the $7500 you stated is family and since I’m the only one on my plan I needed to look.

We have two plans. The cheaper one with higher payout options is a $4200 deductible and $8200 out of pocket maximum for a family. And we’ve always had what was considered “good insurance” for a company in the metroplex.

So yeah the ACA is there. It isn’t great but it’s there. And yeah it’s more than my “good insurance”. For just basic cost limits it’s not far off of what my “good insurance” is. What’s the plan then? Break it for all of us then the government HAS to come to the rescue? No thanks.

I am actually on the better plan and just me. $1600 deductible and $3100 max out of pocket. And I pay $208 a month for that for just me. The company covers another $718 a month for total cost. So yeah the ACA is there and no I’m not inclined to break my plan further to keep throwing bad money after it.

 

[LouderVol]

Just curious, if you were so poor, why didn't you qualify for the subsidy? As you elaborate on things, it sounds like you are using more healthcare than you're paying for and enjoying a shared approach to all people paying for our healthcare.

I am actually using pretty much none of it. Yearly check ups is all. But if one of a number of things show up I am in doodoo. I am overpaying for what I currently need, but about as ready for the what if/eventuality as I can be.

I could have qualified for some of the subsidies back then. But I was raised to be independent, and was willing to work and "go without" in order to achieve it.

Now if the issues never arise I will have just cost myself a fair amount of money, but it was my choice to overspend. ACA just raised how much I was overspending, by a large amount.

All this to say, this is what the increased costs do, it just marganilizes more people and takes the choice aspect out of it. Which I am against.

 

[NorthDallas40]

I am actually using pretty much none of it. Yearly check ups is all. But if one of a number of things show up I am in doodoo. I am overpaying for what I currently need, but about as ready for the what if/eventuality as I can be.

I could have qualified for some of the subsidies back then. But I was raised to be independent, and was willing to work and "go without" in order to achieve it.

Now if the issues never arise I will have just cost myself a fair amount of money, but it was my choice to overspend. ACA just raised how much I was overspending, by a large amount.

All this to say, this is what the increased costs do, it just marganilizes more people and takes the choice aspect out of it. Which I am against.

You get like fit the last paragraph. I don’t understand why when over 9 in 10 Americans are covered and we’ve already born ridiculous cost increases the damn fanatics expect us to all get screwed even more to throw more money after the bad money already spent on the ACA or just cave and roll over and accept M4A. No thank you

 

[LouderVol]

Remind me, what is it I'm "pushing down your throats?"

I've clearly stated the ACA is bad and the status quo was bad. I'm pointing out reality and facts, not trying to sell you on a solution.

If you arent proposing anything, how am I in the wrong to propose something that I believe would help many/most Americans?

 

[Velo Vol]

Just an FYI; there's a concept in healthcare called the Iron Triangle - basically cost, quality and access; not all can be simultaneously increased. There are trade offs. Others have adapted this to the Iron Square and added a fourth component "choice".

Every policy change has trade offs. Yet most politicians pretend they don't. And a lot of voters don't get it.

 

[Sea Ray]

So I went and looked up our corporate plan limits. I’m assuming the $7500 you stated is family and since I’m the only one on my plan I needed to look.

We have two plans. The cheaper one with higher payout options is a $4200 deductible and $8200 out of pocket maximum for a family. And we’ve always had what was considered “good insurance” for a company in the metroplex.

So yeah the ACA is there. It isn’t great but it’s there. And yeah it’s more than my “good insurance”. For just basic cost limits it’s not far off of what my “good insurance” is. What’s the plan then? Break it for all of us then the government HAS to come to the rescue? No thanks.

I am actually on the better plan and just me. $1600 deductible and $3100 max out of pocket. And I pay $208 a month for that for just me. The company covers another $718 a month for total cost. So yeah the ACA is there and no I’m not inclined to break my plan further to keep throwing bad money after it.

No, actually the $7500 is per individual. It's twice that for the family. Is your corporate plan good for out of state?

My point here is that ACA has screwed up the whole industry, not just the marketplace

 

[Rickyvol77]

1st, not-for-profit means basically nothing in this country, it’s mostly a tax shelter like churches use. The largest employer in the my state is UPMC (University of Pittsburgh medical branch) and they are technically non-profit… it’s a sham.

2nd, Yeah, SOME non-clinical personnel are required for critical functions, but if you did away with medical coding, bill collections, medical sales, etc then you could drive down costs considerably.

3rd, profit seeking isn’t ALWAYS at odds with what’s best for the patient, but it is all too often. If you only knew how hard doctors and nurses and allied health professionals had to fight to get basic materials that make a huge difference in patient care that are often denied because of “cost containment” you’d be staggered.

1 is false because I work at a not-for-profit Level 1 trauma center hospital and they absolutely pour back the money into team member raises yearly AND for additional projects/construction/capital requests
2 the fact you believe that making healthcare completely a government function would eliminate coding/collections/etc is hilarious, and shows your lack of actual knowledge on the subject
3 BS, we never have that issue, and if you are complaining about this, it's because your hospital is poorly run OR your coworkers have a lot of waste

 

[Sea Ray]

I could fix this tomorrow by doing one thing:

Banning employers from providing it. Make health insurance like auto insurance. Everyone has to buy it on their own, especially members of Congress. Then they'd see how screwed up it is and they'd get serious about fixing it

 

[NorthDallas40]

No, actually the $7500 is per individual. It's twice that for the family. Is your corporate plan good for out of state?

My point here is that ACA has screwed up the whole industry, not just the marketplace

Yeah we are covered nationwide by at worst our out of network coverage. The numbers I listed are for in network. But here is the kicker, in network and out of network are separate buckets which don’t share realized costs and are met separately.

And you’re right. The ACA has screwed it up for everyone. I’m going to guess this is largely due to no exceptions for pre existing conditions. That’s a good thing and worth supporting in cost.

But no I’m not willing to throw more money away and continue to pay more for less coverage. Either we draw a line now or we’re on single payer eventually because it will be the stupid throw **** at the wall and see what sticks approach until we are eventually to single payer

 

[Rickyvol77]

Everyone wants Healthcare and no one needs it, until they need it. Just admit you're in it for yourself and that the less fortunate can f*** themselves. America being "great" is just a catchphrase for you guys, you have no real interest in making a sacrifice for others.

Giving extra money to the government or to healthcare/insurance companies to waste with no real positive effect is NOT a sacrifice for others, it's stupidity, but i guess the thought of it makes some "feel" like they did something, even if they didnt

 

[NorthDallas40]

I could fix this tomorrow by doing one thing:

Banning employers from providing it. Make health insurance like auto insurance. Everyone has to buy it on their own, especially members of Congress. Then they'd see how screwed up it is and they'd get serious about fixing it

All you need to do is force Congress into it without any Congressional specific subsidies (and you know the bastards would do that) and I’d guess it at least gets considerably better very rapidly.

 

[Sea Ray]

Yeah we are covered nationwide by at worst our out of network coverage. The numbers I listed are for in network. But here is the kicker, in network and out of network are separate buckets which don’t share realized costs and are net separately.

And you’re right. The ACA has screwed it up for everyone. I’m going to guess this is largely due to no exceptions for pre existing conditions. That’s a good thing and worth supporting in cost.

But no I’m not willing to throw more money away and continue to pay more for less coverage. Either we draw a line now or we’re on single payer eventually because it will be the stupid throw **** at the wall and see what sticks approach until we are eventually to single payer

What's your answer for the gal who got breast cancer at age 40? She now has to pay thousands per month (for 25 yrs) with a ridiculous deductible 'cause she has a pre existing condition? I don't think that's right.

 

[Rickyvol77]

I think the Australian model looks most appealing, wherein the government foot the bill for public services but additional services are provided via private providers. If you want to buy your way to the front of the line, you'd have that ability. I'm sure there are ways to nit pick every model but our model costs the most, provides mediocre outcomes and leaves large swaths of the population out in the cold.

we don't have mediocre outcomes because of the actual healthcare. Our healthcare providers are among the best in the world by far

 

[LouderVol]

Dude, I pay 100% of the healthcare costs for seven individuals plus my own family if you want to compare receipts. I know what it means to vet deductibles, co-pays, network access and benefits for cost considerations for people who have less than I do.

No one wants to pay more, but people also don't want to be thrust into bankruptcy with a bad diagnosis. The dichotomy is that either we all pay more or millions of Americans face uncertainty in financial solvency.

But as long as you're one of the haves, f*** everyone else. Right?

The issue is everyone paying more pushes more Americans towards the same uncertainty of financial solvency, regardless of medical diagnosis. All you are doing is pushing that line where healthcare is unaffordable even higher.

No idea why you consider that a win or a good system.

 

[Sea Ray]

we don't have mediocre outcomes because of the actual healthcare. Our healthcare providers are among the best in the world by far

This is true.

Two years ago my Mom fell and broke her hip. She was in surgery w/i 48 hrs with a new hip. That doesn't happen elsewhere

 

[Rickyvol77]

Paying twice as much for average outcomes is how I'd label a mediocre system.

Infographic: U.S. Healthcare Spending

The system is not at fault for the GSWs, drug overdoses, comorbidities, obesity, and huge number of mentally ill people

 

[Velo Vol]

I could fix this tomorrow by doing one thing:

Banning employers from providing it. Make health insurance like auto insurance. Everyone has to buy it on their own, especially members of Congress. Then they'd see how screwed up it is and they'd get serious about fixing it

I agree with this.

 

[NorthDallas40]

What's your answer for the gal who got breast cancer at age 40? She now has to pay thousands per month (for 25 yrs) with a ridiculous deductible 'cause she has a pre existing condition? I don't think that's right.

I don’t have one. But I have a sister who got beast cancer at around 58 and even had a double mastectomy and reconstructive surgery and she doesn’t pay that. And she has absolutely lousy insurance and makes maybe $60k a year? So I guess my anecdote trumps your anecdote?

Oddly she works in medical billing. You’d think people in the medical industry have decent health insurance but it seems to be quite the opposite from the family members I have in the healthcare industry.

 

[Rickyvol77]

Shouting at clouds and screaming? Deflections about virtue signaling? Yawn. I guess I'd fall back to that too if I tried to float a "ground breaking" legislative solution to a problem that wasn't being argued.

It's fun to watch you flounder and have to awkwardly tiptoe around calling the plight of millions of uninsured a "hollow" point and then pivot to expressing that any concern over these people is "virtue signaling."

The ACA was and is designed (albeit poorly) to help the uninsured and this thread was created to discuss it. Repeating a buzz word like "virtue signaling" isn't the flex you think it is.

Seriously though - you should have led with that gem, it'd have saved everyone a bunch of time by letting everyone know you simply don't give a sh*t about anyone but yourself and don't understand or care to understand why the ACA was ever contemplated to begin with.

Septic, you can disagree with an idea and NOT pivot to the "you're a horrible person that wants poor people to die" argument. You know there are millions of people who don't WANT to be insured, just like with car insurance or life insurance or other similar things.