Obama's Health Care Reform

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vols4sure

vols4sure

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#1
Barack Obama and Joe Biden: The Change We Need | Health Care

Since Obama's health care reform is going to be a huge part of his administration, what are people's thoughts? I don't know much about it, but I always hear the arguments that the level of health care will decrease, anything the govt has control over they mess up, etc.

I guess my main question, are we basically going to be copying the Canadian and European systems? Are those systems working well?
 
#2
#2
"Under the plan, if you like your current health insurance, nothing changes, except your costs will go down by as much as $2,500 per year."

I like this quote from the website. Are they meaning that the cost of your healthcare will go down by $2500 but your taxes to pay for it will go up by $7500?
 
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Rahm Emanuel's brother is the lead adviser, his plan involves the Value Added Tax, (VAT.)

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Wife; Linda Emanuel, President’s Council on Bioethics.

Linda Emanuel, MD, PhD, is the Director of the Buehler Center on Aging, Professor of Health Industry Management at the Kellogg School and Professor of Medicine at Northwestern University Medical School. She is the founder and Principal of the Education for Physicians in End-of-life Care (EPEC) Project that is being run out of this program. She is Health Section Director for Kellogg's Ford Motor Company Center for Global Citizenship research initiative on international corporate responsibility for ethics in health care.
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Ezekiel Emanuel, bioethicist.

HealthCare, Guaranteed, Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel

Part II;

How do we fund it?
A 10 percent Value-Added Tax (VAT) on consumption.

More importantly, the VAT doesn’t just introduce a new tax, it also lets us cut other taxes. (I'll buy that, I've still got some wooden nickles left.)gs

Insurers would report to 12 Regional Health Boards. Each Board would have a Center for Patient Safety and Dispute Resolution staffed by patients, physicians and lawyers that would receive and adjudicate patient complaints, compensate patients, discipline and disqualify physicians responsible for repeatedly injuring patients, and fund and develop patient safety programs.

VAT would take over funding health care benefits for government employees, and with time, both Medicaid and SCHIP would be subsumed within the new, centralized framework. State taxes would be bound to drop: “What state governor wouldn’t like to be able to cut taxes by, say 25 percent, and still have change left over to improve education?” Emanuel asks.

With the VAT, we won’t just be piling tax upon tax. Here there is a compelling political narrative at work: the system is becoming more efficient and health care reform is not just targeting the rich, but imposing a universal tax for the good of all.

The VAT is as reliable a cash-cow as you’re going to find: it can generate an enormous amount of money at a relatively low tax rate.

“We cannot spend more than the VAT brings in. If Americans want more health care services, they will have to lobby and convince Congress to increase the VAT.”

(No doubt Acorn will be on project that from day one.)gs
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Part I

Imagine, instead, a proposal for health care reform that guarantees free, high quality health care for all Americans. No premiums. No deductibles. Under this plan, the government insists that all insurers offer the same comprehensive benefits to everyone including: office and home visits, hospitalization, preventive screening tests, prescription drugs, some dental care, inpatient and outpatient mental health care and physical and occupational therapy.

These benefits are more generous than Medicare’s and more comprehensive than what 85 percent of all employers offer their employees.

If this all sounds too good to be true, you need to read Health Care, Guaranteed by Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel.
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Book Review: Healthcare Guaranteed by Dr. Ezekiel J. Emanuel

You should read this book. Well, you should read ¼ of this book. Pick any 50 pages – the author repeats himself enough that any section of the book will tell you what the rest of the book says as well.
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No doubt the media will be pushing this plan like big fat cats.










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Emanuel proposes an alternative ideology, a liberal communitarianism that imagines a federation of political communities dedicated to democratic deliberations to guide the formulation of laws and policies.


(gee, that sounds like communist party Cominterns, wonder how that worked out??? Anyone have a revisionist history book available???


Thanks, here it is on page 242, 2nd paragraph; "it was a worker's paradise, no one was ever sick and they all lived happily ever after, well that settles it in my mind, I'm for it 110%, God save king Obama!!)
 
#4
#4
Sounds like the quality of doctors will go down. No advantage in being in the top of your field.
 
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vols4sure said:
Sounds like the quality of doctors will go down. No advantage in being in the top of your field.
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One of the claims made is that we should follow the lead of other countries who have nationalized health care.

The problem is that no examination is called for to study the failings of those systems.
 
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gsvol said:
One of the claims made is that we should follow the lead of other countries who have nationalized health care.

The problem is that no examination is called for to study the failings of those systems.
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Yeah, that is my main question. Do the other countries universal health care systems work?
 
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orangeblooded2 said:
Yes.
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Can you be more descriptive? Works that everyone receives healthcare? Does everyone receive the same quality? Has it been very expensive? What does the medical profession think about it?

Not trying to pick a fight or anything. Just curious.
 
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KB5252 said:
Give us an example just one country that implemented socialized health care where the quality of care has not been watered down and the country has not gone into great debt trying to pay for it.
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they can't. these liberal sheep have no clue how bad our healthcare will be when hussein takes it over. it will be even worse for our children.
 
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orangeblooded2 said:
Canada.......Health Care


France...From Business Week no less....The French Lesson In Health Care



World rank......AFP: France is healthcare leader, US comes dead last: study


If big business would have aquiesed years ago we would already be were we needed to be!The best in the World.
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you might recheck those measures of best in the world, then check out the agenda of those writing the garbage, then try and figure out why those who need serious care haul their cookies elsewhere or to docs not involved in the system.
 
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BigPapaVol said:
you might recheck those measures of best in the world, then check out the agenda of those writing the garbage, then try and figure out why those who need serious care haul their cookies elsewhere or to docs not involved in the system.
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That was the quickest read and assessment of info provided ever.Or was it a quick fall back to the same old republican dogma and disinformation that has blocked health care reform for a generation plus.I think the latter.
 
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orangeblooded2 said:
That was the quickest read and assessment of info provided ever.Or was it a quick fall back to the same old republican dogma and disinformation that has blocked health care reform for a generation plus.I think the latter.
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so you are for socialized healthcare orange?
 
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orangeblooded2 said:
Canada.....Health Care System - Main Page - Health Canada



France...From Business Week no less....The French Lesson In Health Care



World rank......AFP: France is healthcare leader, US comes dead last: study


If big business would have aquiesed years ago we would already be were we needed to be!The best in the World.
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"Michael Moore's documentary Sicko trumpets France as one of the most effective providers of universal health care."

The first sentence from the business week article makes me think France = not so good if Moore supports it.

Also from the article - "To grasp how the French system works, think about Medicare for the elderly in the U.S., then expand that to encompass the entire population."

Ouch, I would rather not think about that.
 
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orangeblooded2 said:
That was the quickest read and assessment of info provided ever.Or was it a quick fall back to the same old republican dogma and disinformation that has blocked health care reform for a generation plus.I think the latter.
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can you explain why unemployement in nations with socialized healthcare is far higher than the US and why the taxes are far higher if socialized healthcare is the answer?
 
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orangeblooded2 said:
That was the quickest read and assessment of info provided ever.Or was it a quick fall back to the same old republican dogma and disinformation that has blocked health care reform for a generation plus.I think the latter.
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did you read them quickly. The French system they're touting pays docs an average of $55k per year. I don't want even my GP doc making that little money.

There is a truckload of holes in the Business Week article, which was by far the best of the group. Biggest weakness, it doesn't account for lifestyle differences of the two nations and doesn't account for the fact that the vast majority of medical innovation, worldwide, happens in the US because we have an incentive for the best and brightest to head that direction. Same for the pharma crowd. Maybe you ascribe no value to that function, as do the idiots writing these agenda driven articles, but that is the hallmark of our system and THE reason it's the greatest in the world.

Our insurance system, on the other hand, is a disaster and also drives much of the statistical trash in those articles. When BCBS tells people they don't qualify for respiratory care, they don't get it.
 
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orangeblooded2 said:
Canada.......Health Care


France...From Business Week no less....The French Lesson In Health Care



World rank......AFP: France is healthcare leader, US comes dead last: study


If big business would have aquiesed years ago we would already be were we needed to be!The best in the World.
Click to expand...

They rank it with equal access to care weighted more than quality of care received. (France has nowhere near the best health care in the world.)Also France has had this in place for a fairly short amount of time and is having horrible trouble paying for this fiasco, they have implemented taxes on just about everything you can imagine and it is still underfunded.

People in Canada come to the US to get treatment because they are put on waiting lists, especially true for cancer patients. By the time they get to a specialist (long waits) they are told there is little they can do and receive limited care, sent home and basically wait to die. I know this from first hand knowledge.
 
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orangeblooded2 said:
That was the quickest read and assessment of info provided ever.Or was it a quick fall back to the same old republican dogma and disinformation that has blocked health care reform for a generation plus.I think the latter.
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It is an old study, as I stated before this study cared little about quality of care and weighted access for all as the biggest factor for determining which health care system was the best.
 
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joevol320 said:
so you are for socialized healthcare orange?
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Bottom line, I'm for health care period.

This situation has been unfolding for a generation+.It should have and could have been a done deal years ago,if American companies weren't so selfishly greedy.
If it fails then we can tweak it as we go.
 
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orangeblooded2 said:
Bottom line, I'm for health care period.

This situation has been unfolding for a generation+.It should have and could have been a done deal years ago,if American companies weren't so selfishly greedy.
If it fails then we can tweak it as we go.
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you are so clueless, you need to stop reading the moveon.orgs BS and try to open your eyes. to say or imply that America doesn't have the best healthcare is just insane. are you sure you're an American? do you have a job that actually benefits a company?
 
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orangeblooded2 said:
Bottom line, I'm for health care period.

This situation has been unfolding for a generation+.It should have and could have been a done deal years ago,if American companies weren't so selfishly greedy.
If it fails then we can tweak it as we go.
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But the problem with that is once people receive anything for nothing they begin to think they have the right to have it, this has been demonstrated again and again.
 
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