Offical Fire Randy Sanders thread

#52
#52
From 1 vol in GA to another, don't give Fulmer that much staying power. Remember how Majors was sent packing? If the powers that be get upset enough and fulmer refuses to right the ship, then he'll make a fatal mistake and be coachin SW Missouri or a Div 2 school. If he wants to stay, he's got to dump Sanders.

Check these #'s:

We can all talk about what's wrong with the VOLS, but lets put emotion aside and look at the numbers. I decided to do a comparison between Sanders and Cutcliffe since on the surface, it seems as we have gone down in offensive production since 1999. Here's what I found after looking at stats available online at utsports.com.

To make things easy, I used Cutcliffe (1993 - 1998) and Sanders (1999 - 2004). This used 6 years each and since the NCAA started counting bowl games into stats in 2002, I removed them to make things equal.

Total Offense:
'93-'98 - 30,209 yrds=5,034 yrds/yr or 457 yrds per game
'99-'04 - 26,761 yrds=4,460 yrds/yr or 405 yrds per game

Total Points:
'93-'98 - 2408 or 401/yr = 35.39 per game
'99-'04 - 2046 or 341/yr = 29.22 per game

Bowl records:
Cutcliffe: Wins 3.5, Losses 2
Sanders: Wins 2.5, Losses 4
(each gets a half for the '98 Fiesta Bowl)

Win/Loss;
Cutcliffe: 63-9
Sanders: 56-20

This tells us what we felt all along. The offense production has fallen off due to the O.C's. lack of knowledge and inexperience. I'm sure Randy's a great guy, but he's been stuck in only one system and knows nothing else. It's time for change.

If Fulmer can't see it, then he's got to go too. In the business world, the best manager's have to make hard decisions or get fired themselves. Wake up Phil and do the right thing!!

 
#53
#53
Originally posted by volingeorgia@Oct 11, 2005 5:29 AM
From 1 vol in GA to another, don't give Fulmer that much staying power. Remember how Majors was sent packing? If the powers that be get upset enough and fulmer refuses to right the ship, then he'll make a fatal mistake and be coachin SW Missouri or a Div 2 school. If he wants to stay, he's got to dump Sanders.

Check these #'s:

We can all talk about what's wrong with the VOLS, but lets put emotion aside and look at the numbers. I decided to do a comparison between Sanders and Cutcliffe since on the surface, it seems as we have gone down in offensive production since 1999. Here's what I found after looking at stats available online at utsports.com.

To make things easy, I used Cutcliffe (1993 - 1998) and Sanders (1999 - 2004). This used 6 years each and since the NCAA started counting bowl games into stats in 2002, I removed them to make things equal.

Total Offense:
'93-'98 - 30,209 yrds=5,034 yrds/yr or 457 yrds per game
'99-'04 - 26,761 yrds=4,460 yrds/yr or 405 yrds per game

Total Points:
'93-'98 - 2408 or 401/yr = 35.39 per game
'99-'04 - 2046 or 341/yr = 29.22 per game

Bowl records:
Cutcliffe: Wins 3.5, Losses 2
Sanders: Wins 2.5, Losses 4
(each gets a half for the '98 Fiesta Bowl)

Win/Loss;
Cutcliffe: 63-9
Sanders: 56-20

This tells us what we felt all along. The offense production has fallen off due to the O.C's. lack of knowledge and inexperience. I'm sure Randy's a great guy, but he's been stuck in only one system and knows nothing else. It's time for change.

If Fulmer can't see it, then he's got to go too. In the business world, the best manager's have to make hard decisions or get fired themselves. Wake up Phil and do the right thing!!
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Nice stats, it's posted on here everyother day!
Yes! There is a serious problem, Between CPF, RS, Stephens. Its hard to call out Stephens IMO, He is getting cream of the crop OL talent, But yet, even meeting just about the entire Toe family (excluding Matt) saturday, Is Toe's size his down fall?
He owns the UT benchpress record, We cant run right for the life of us.
While im still in awe of his size and strength, He (Toe) gets beat by speed, He gets his hands on you first it's over!
I have to believe Toe know's, technique is killing him! RS is yes stuck, calling what might work. There is a playbook, some love to hate. Those that hate it are the same that become Vol fans loving it.
We, can call it with whats on field( I believe). But' why cant we build around it? Twist, Tweek etc..
 
#54
#54
Originally posted by blackmon@Oct 9, 2005 1:15 PM
You have heard it said:

We are only a film study away....
We are only a week away....
We are only a few less dropped passes away....
We are only a few special teams adjustments away....
We are only a few more tweaks away.....
We are only a little better execution away....

actually....TN has been a terrible team all year long. Except for the inspired play of the defense, and an incredible half by RC the season could be a lot worse. This is the same nonsense that has been spouted for the last few years....same song second verse...could get better, but will only get worse!

I say:

we are only a disciplined football team away...
we are only an offensive coordinator away....
or perhaps, we are only a head coach away....

I am not a fair weather fan. I have been saying this consistently since the post-98 NC slide began.....statistics don't lie...as the Fulmer waistline has expanded (not trying to be mean, just making a point) so has the discipline of the football team and staff declined. It is clear there are discipline problems there from the top down that inevitably carry-over into on the field (mis)execution. The talent is simply not being "coached-up" for whatever reason. Execution might not happen every time, but when more often than not most EVERY spot has problems then it is more systemic--it goes to coaching.

Don't take my word for it...look at the stats.

Sanders was an inconceivable choice for OC because Fulmer wanted it that way. If not for Trooper's incredible desire to be at TN one of the few good innovative coaching prospects would be gone...and I bet he is gone next year because he and Sanders simply don't get along.

How long has it been since any other coach was pursued by anyone? While that is not a gimme on its own, it does tell you that the UT system is perceived almost universally as stale and passe. The fact that it is regularly solved is proof.

TN will improve...there is simply no way to get much worse. We will not beat Bama, but will do our usual November run (but will probably slip up to a highly motivated highly-TN-hating team)and end up in a second or third tier bowl...where we will probably lose because we will be de-motivated because we were "overlooked" "got no respect" "dissed by the media".... How many times has TN been embarassed on national television? 7-4 at best, 6-5 at worst.

Sanders is not going anywhere because he was trained in the ways of his "master"...and the "master" is not letting the system go.

It will take many years of mediocrity before the good ole boy system allows for changes...so it is as it is....this is TN football...like it or not....

in the meantime, I and many others will continue to call for changes. The sky is not falling...mediocrity is just the hated but inevitable way of life.

Fulmer hates losing, and justifiably so, but he simply does not have it in him to reverse the course...things are just too entrenched and he is simply too change-averse to make the corrections. He is locked into the system of his own making...and it will take outside intervention to make a new course.

His record does speak for itself in terms of winning percentages. He wins most of the games he should win easily by winning them barely. He occassionally wins games he might not win. He seldom wins games when innovation is required, and he far too often loses games that should not be in question. If the standard is 8 out of 11, the Fulmer is the man.

In the old days of TN football that would have been the gold standard. Those days are gone to most of us. It is not a matter of ingratitude and too high standards, but expectations that he established and promised to meet.
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Thanks, Well written and well spoken!!!
 
#55
#55
Originally posted by volingeorgia@Oct 11, 2005 4:29 AM
From 1 vol in GA to another, don't give Fulmer that much staying power. Remember how Majors was sent packing? If the powers that be get upset enough and fulmer refuses to right the ship, then he'll make a fatal mistake and be coachin SW Missouri or a Div 2 school. If he wants to stay, he's got to dump Sanders.

Check these #'s:

We can all talk about what's wrong with the VOLS, but lets put emotion aside and look at the numbers. I decided to do a comparison between Sanders and Cutcliffe since on the surface, it seems as we have gone down in offensive production since 1999. Here's what I found after looking at stats available online at utsports.com.

To make things easy, I used Cutcliffe (1993 - 1998) and Sanders (1999 - 2004). This used 6 years each and since the NCAA started counting bowl games into stats in 2002, I removed them to make things equal.
God Bless you and the "facts" you posted. I have been blowing this horn for more than a year and getting bashed on this site. I think the VN is seeing the light. Hey Randy, You SUCK!!! :thefinger:
Total Offense:
'93-'98 - 30,209 yrds=5,034 yrds/yr or 457 yrds per game
'99-'04 - 26,761 yrds=4,460 yrds/yr or 405 yrds per game

Total Points:
'93-'98 - 2408 or 401/yr = 35.39 per game
'99-'04 - 2046 or 341/yr = 29.22 per game

Bowl records:
Cutcliffe: Wins 3.5, Losses 2
Sanders: Wins 2.5, Losses 4
(each gets a half for the '98 Fiesta Bowl)

Win/Loss;
Cutcliffe: 63-9
Sanders: 56-20

This tells us what we felt all along. The offense production has fallen off due to the O.C's. lack of knowledge and inexperience. I'm sure Randy's a great guy, but he's been stuck in only one system and knows nothing else. It's time for change.

If Fulmer can't see it, then he's got to go too. In the business world, the best manager's have to make hard decisions or get fired themselves. Wake up Phil and do the right thing!!
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#56
#56
Originally posted by jwells@Oct 9, 2005 2:47 AM
This is an interesting thread. If we'd won the game, Sanders would have been fine, no talk of firing him. BUT, we lost...so everyone goes to blame the playcalling. I fail to see how throwing it away instead of to the open receiver, dropping one in the endzone, throwing it too high in the end zone, poor O-line blocking, and all around poor pass selection/execution has to do with the playcalling. It seems to me that the offense clicked pretty well and then all of a sudden fell apart right when we had a chance to turn the game around. Briscoe dropping that pass wasn't the play caller's fault, clausen getting creamed and fumbling wasn't either...that was poor execution of a tried and true game plan, that has worked, and still does work.
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Well if our players had the coaching to execute maybe we would win.
 
#57
#57
Fulmer needs to change not Randy because in reality Fulmer is the OC and always has been the OC. Randy is the OC in title only. Fulmer won't fire Randy because Randy takes his heat. Besides if Randy was fired, don't you know he would let it be known that he was not the problem at UT. Cutcliff reportedly said that Randy is an offenseive Genius. Randy himself said that he wants to do thinks but it would go against Fulmers "conservative philosophy." Fulmer needs to man up and repent, admit that he is not an offensive guru and untie Randy and then focus on bringing discipline back into the game, or He needs to repent and start over and bring in the best OC available and let him have the freedom to do what he needs to do, and then focus his efforts on discipline. If he can't do either of those two, I think he need to be moved into an adm position as an associate AD and bring in the best available head coach...IMO.
 
#59
#59
It is not just his play calling---he can't coach/ develop QB's. Fulmer gets tons of talent [minus a shake n bake RB], Sanders is just over his head.
Once upon a time, Tennessee was feared for its running game. That was pre-Sanders. Every since Sanders came aboard, Tennessee's running game has been spotty at best. That is not only not having a TRUE premiere RB, but also a coach who can scheme a whole game- not just a play or two.
By the way, what happened to the Neyland's committment to special teams? That is what lost the Florida game.
 
#61
#61
I'm not a huge Sanders supporter, so don't get confused there. But, all this talk about him not "developing talent" is a little misguided. Do I think he is good at developing talent? No. But, do we not have RB coach to develop the RB's? Do we not have a WR coach to develop the WR's? Do we not have an OL coach to develop the OL? The player development aspect is much more in those guys hands. Sanders is much more invovled with specifically the QB's and with the playbook.
 
#63
#63
If this discussion was a year or more ago, I'd say it would just be Fulmer needing to make personnel changes. But at this point, everything is ultimately on the head of the coach. Play calls stink. Penalties kill. Focus is lacking. Special teams is awful. Every aspect of the game just flat out sucks.it gets worse every year.

Fulmer knows all of this and chooses to do nothing. Had he acted to make changes, then he'd have my respect and my patience to wait for changes. But seeing no changes and problems getting worse, the problem lies solely at the feet of Fulmer. This team has a disease. These guys have no focus, no fight, no discipline and no hunger to compete and excel. With the talent siiting in that locaker room this all comes down to the mental prep the coaches are charged with. There was a spurt in the LSU game. but you cannot keep having seasons of one spurt of focus a year and expect to be a viable program.

This being said, if we truly want Fulmer to go, or even Sanders and others to go you have to call the Athletic Department. Call boosters. Fill the offices with messages and letters. Have the call in shows flooded with angry comments. Then you better make sure there's a FAST transition to get a new coach in because this type of action is a big recruiting killer. Fulmer is right when he says the recruits come here partly because of a steady staff. not a good thing now but something needing to be done.

Norm Chow? Maybe. Good QB coach and that is what we need. Better than Cut at developing someone like Crompton or Jimmy Clausen if we're lucky. Or Mack Brown? He gets his NC this year and leaves Texas with being on top and great credibility. He's from TN. Or what about Jon Gruden? He's caoched here in Knoxville before under Majors. Lure him out of TB with a good school and fat package and he might come....

Thoughts?
 
#64
#64
ESPN Quote:
Biggest disappointment

Easy winner here. Tennessee's offensive roster is dotted with high school All-Americans. Yet the Vols have been embarra$$ingly bad on offense. How bad? They're ranked 100th nationally in rushing offense (just ahead of Temple) and tied for 96th in scoring offense (just ahead of Ball State). And believe it or not, the Vols are even worse on special teams. Keep in mind, too, that this is the same team that started the season ranked No. 3 nationally. But outside of the dramatic comeback at LSU, they've been just plain rank.

"Being in the same class as Temple and Ball State should make Fulmer's nut$ shrivel up and go up inside his body. When the HOT light goes off at Krispy Kreme and he finally reads the atricle maybe he'll realize there is a problem. Someone with a little clout in Knoxville, please have the power turned off at the Kingston Pike Krispy Kreme as quickly as possible." :birgits_giggle:

no way we get Norm Chow, so everyone needs to stop using his name, he left USC so he could be in the NFL why would he come back for less money when he could have just stayed and won another national champioship?? If Fulmer doesnt make some serious changes then I wouldnt be opposed to Jon Gruden or someone else who can get the job done
 
#65
#65
Originally posted by Chattownsfinest@Oct 16, 2005 10:08 PM
ESPN Quote:
Biggest disappointment

Easy winner here. Tennessee's offensive roster is dotted with high school All-Americans. Yet the Vols have been embarra$$ingly bad on offense. How bad? They're ranked 100th nationally in rushing offense (just ahead of Temple) and tied for 96th in scoring offense (just ahead of Ball State). And believe it or not, the Vols are even worse on special teams. Keep in mind, too, that this is the same team that started the season ranked No. 3 nationally. But outside of the dramatic comeback at LSU, they've been just plain rank.

"Being in the same class as Temple and Ball State should make Fulmer's nut$ shrivel up and go up inside his body. When the HOT light goes off at Krispy Kreme and he finally reads the atricle maybe he'll realize there is a problem. Someone with a little clout in Knoxville, please have the power turned off at the Kingston Pike Krispy Kreme as quickly as possible."  :birgits_giggle:


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Who wrote that? :dunno:
 
#66
#66
Originally posted by CSpindizzy@Oct 16, 2005 9:37 PM

Norm Chow? Maybe. Good QB coach and that is what we need. Better than Cut at developing someone like Crompton or Jimmy Clausen if we're lucky. Or Mack Brown? He gets his NC this year and leaves Texas with being on top and great credibility. He's from TN. Or what about Jon Gruden? He's caoched here in Knoxville before under Majors. Lure him out of TB with a good school and fat package and he might come....

Thoughts?
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I AGREE with some of your points. but no amount of coaching is gonna make a great qb out of clausen. he just doesnt have the tools. Ainge yes. but we are really limiited with what we can do with clausen. the short passing game is about it.
 
#67
#67
Glad to see at least some people are concerned about the Offensive problems at Tennessee.
 
#68
#68
yep, so this is my weekly post of just how much I hate Randy Sanders. Maybe he will fall going up to the press box, bonk his head, and fulmer will have to call the plays............
 
#70
#70
I was at Ut,s animal hospital three years ago and read a magazine and it said that if Tennessee would go outside the box for a good Oc they couldn't be stopped with the players they get year after year . :clapping: Cutcliffe is ok but we need to go after the best some of the ones fans have talked about is adverage we need the best money can buy .
 
#71
#71
Originally posted by Castnet orange@Oct 17, 2005 11:25 AM
I was at Ut,s animal hospital three years ago and read a magazine  and it said that if Tennessee would go outside the box for a good Oc they couldn't be stopped with the players they get year after year .  :clapping: Cutcliffe is ok but we need to go after the best some of the ones fans have talked about is adverage we need the best money can buy .
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The best O.C.'s out there now, are not going to leave to take another O.C. job, they will leave to take a head coaching job. Its going to be difficult to bring them in. You have to take an up and coming O.C.
 
#72
#72
You can draw a great OC from another program with a creative contract with incentives. If Fulmer will work with the administration, perhaps the new OC contract could include a clause agreed to by Fulmer, that if the new OC leads the SEC in offense for the next four years, Fulmer will retire and hand over the HC position to the new OC. That will almost certainly guarantee Fulmer goes out on top after 20 years because if we have the best offense to go with the best defenses, we should be competing for NC every year...there is no reason something like this can't get done.
 
#73
#73
im kinda a "New Vols Fan" dont get me wrong i have always liked the vols i just havent put in any interest but i have no idea what a new HC would do to UT football. it kinda scares me to think about it.
 
#74
#74
Originally posted by TBALLVOL@Oct 17, 2005 2:33 PM
You can draw a great OC from another program with a creative contract with incentives. If Fulmer will work with the administration, perhaps the new OC contract could include a clause agreed to by Fulmer, that if the new OC leads the SEC in offense for the next four years, Fulmer will retire and hand over the HC position to the new OC. That will almost certainly guarantee Fulmer goes out on top after 20 years because if we have the best offense to go with the best defenses, we should be competing for NC every year...there is no reason something like this can't get done.
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I agree 100% !!!!!! :rock: :rock:
 
#75
#75
Who said we could get Jon Gruden for OC? Are you serious?

I think some great choices would be Paul Petrino or maybe Pat Hill.
 
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