OFFICIAL Chi Cubs Thread: Anyone can have a bad century/this is the year

#76
#76
vols kick balls said:
Pie is better defensively because of his arm. Other than that they are both very similar and I'd bet they will have similar career paths (Pie a little better). Similarities- Patterson was named the Cubs top prospect 3 consecutive years because of his athleticism and potential tools. Pie was named the Cubs top prospect because of his athleticism and potential tools. Both started out very similarly in the majors and despite what you think 1/2 a season worth of ABs is not a small sample size.

Corey Patterson's first 173 ABs: .208 BA, .335 slugging, .260 OBP, .595 OPS

Felix Pie's first 177 ABs: .215 BA, .333 slugging, .271 OBP, .604 OPS

Corey Patterson got better (not much) and so will Felix Pie. Pie will hit for a slightly better average and a slightly better OBP.


Having Edmonds as a stop-gap right now is fine. I'd have Pie in AAA trying to get his hitting fixed because they obviously called him up before he was ready for that kind of competition. You can get away with stuff in the minors that you can't in the majors based on pure talent. I'd have a hitting coach that the Cubs trusted very much down there working with him every day, which I'm sure they do. I think the Cubs are doing the right thing in this situation. Pie is still really young and a couple more months in the minors that could help his future overall will not hurt his career. It's not like the Cubs desperately need him right now either.
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Baseball is a long season 1/2 season is nothing as far as at bats go. This is not what I think its a fact. Ask any scout. Arod's first 200 at bats in the majors .217 avg .252 obp that was in two years. Bobby Abreu a .230 avg in his first 200 at bats. Manny Ramirez hit .225 in his first 200. All these players are career .300 hitters go and look at the greatest hitters and 80% of them hit .250 or less their first 200 at bats. Everyone needs the time to adjust to the majors. Some can some can't. I think Pie can be a .270-.290 type guy with 40-50 sb and a .340-.380 obp. I'd love to have that in the lead off spot maybe hitting second. But he needs the time to figure out MLB pitching which is why I'd like to have him out in center right now. I really thought that this was his time to see a full year of pitches. It's like the second time through the order for a pitcher the out get harder and harder.:)
 
#78
#78
localvol said:
Baseball is a long season 1/2 season is nothing as far as at bats go. This is not what I think its a fact. Ask any scout. Arod's first 200 at bats in the majors .217 avg .252 obp that was in two years. Bobby Abreu a .230 avg in his first 200 at bats. Manny Ramirez hit .225 in his first 200. All these players are career .300 hitters go and look at the greatest hitters and 80% of them hit .250 or less their first 200 at bats. Everyone needs the time to adjust to the majors. Some can some can't. I think Pie can be a .270-.290 type guy with 40-50 sb and a .340-.380 obp. I'd love to have that in the lead off spot maybe hitting second. But he needs the time to figure out MLB pitching which is why I'd like to have him out in center right now. I really thought that this was his time to see a full year of pitches. It's like the second time through the order for a pitcher the out get harder and harder.:)
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First, when making comparisons you should use similar players. Felix Pie will be nothing like any of the players you listed.

Second, your numbers are wrong for Bobby Abreu.

Third, ManRam hit .270 in his rookie year and had an .878 OPS and finished second in the ROY voting.

A-Rod was the best prospect in all of baseball (one of the best prospects of all time) and was an 18 year old kid when he was called up.
 
#79
#79
vols kick balls said:
First, when making comparisons you should use similar players. Felix Pie will be nothing like any of the players you listed.

Second, your numbers are wrong for Bobby Abreu.

Third, ManRam hit .270 in his rookie year and had an .878 OPS and finished second in the ROY voting.

A-Rod was the best prospect in all of baseball (one of the best prospects of all time) and was an 18 year old kid when he was called up.
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I used the players as an example that even .300 hitters don't just come into the majors and dominate they must adjust. I never said their rookie years I said their first 200 at bats. Manny played 22 games and had 53 at bats in 93 and hit just .170. Same thing for Abreu he had 22 at bats in 96 hitting .227 then in 97 had 188 at bats hitting .250. The point is that Pie can't learn any more in the minors he must put it together in MLB and he can't do it playing in the minors.

Yes Arod was young but so is Pie. Arod was called up twice and struggled both times. First call up he had 54 at bats in 17 games and hit just .204 while striking out 20 times. In his second call up he had 142 at bats in 48 games and hit just .232 with 42 strike outs. He had to learn how to adjust his swing for MLB pitching, and so will Pie. He will never learn how to hit MLB pitching in the minors.
My overall point is if Edmonds was performing better than Pie then fine I want to win now just like the rest of the cub's fanbase. But he is not so why hold back Pie for an older slower guy with less of an arm that will hit the same. Had Edmonds come in and hit even .275 with a couple of home runs I would be the happiest guy in the world. :good!:
 
#80
#80
But using those players as examples are pointless because they are completely different types of players and Pie will not be that good (Abreu hit .250 through his first 210 ABs and Manny was a couple months into stellar rookie year but that has nothing to do with my point). You are right that most players come up and struggle innitially but Pie just doesn't have the bat that translates into a .290/.380 player (Best case scenario you listed). Pie's average season, IMO, when he matures will be around .270/.330/.430/.760 (BA/OBP/SLG/OPS) and that will make him a very valuable player.

On your second paragraph. A-Rod was a once a century type prospect and Pie is nothing close to that. A-Rod was an 18 year old kid in the majors trying to play against the best players in the world and he did OK his second go around(much better than Pie at a younger age). You're right, Pie won't figure out maror league pitching in the minors but he can refine his swing in the minors and work on pitch recognition. Pie needs plenty of help on his swing and him staying in the minors for another month or two will only help. Pie has some MAJOR flaws in his swing and even AAA pitchers are taking advantage of it right now. The flaws with his swing are my main reasons of doubting his chances of turning into a star more than his numbers.
 
#81
#81
7 in a row baby. Cubs best record in baseball on June 1, 1st time in 100 years that's happened. Rather have that WS trophy though.
 
#82
#82
i'm not even going to begin talking about that thing at the end of the year until they make the playoffs.

when they still have the best record in the middle of August, let's get excited then.
 
#83
#83
localvol said:
My overall point is if Edmonds was performing better than Pie then fine I want to win now just like the rest of the cub's fanbase. But he is not so why hold back Pie for an older slower guy with less of an arm that will hit the same. Had Edmonds come in and hit even .275 with a couple of home runs I would be the happiest guy in the world. :good!:
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Ok I can admit it. Edmonds is up to .258 and a .303 obp with the cubs including some timely extra base hits. If he can keep this up then keep Pie down until September call-ups. :good!: I'm obliviously not as smart Jim or Lou.:no:
 
#84
#84
doozer said:
i'm not even going to begin talking about that thing at the end of the year until they make the playoffs.

when they still have the best record in the middle of August, let's get excited then.
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I'm excited now. I think this winning will be the catalyst for Jim to go out and get a front of the line type SP. I'm hearing a lot of talk about C.C. Sabathia coming to chitown. :dance2:
 
#85
#85
If Edmonds dose work out and we get a No.1 or 2 type starter I just don't see any holes left on this team. We do need another quality SP for the playoffs.
 
#86
#86
I'm trying so hard to not be excited, but it might be impossible. They get a bad start from Z, and still get a win, all the while Derrick Lee is in a slump.
 
#87
#87
VolinArizona said:
I'm trying so hard to not be excited, but it might be impossible. They get a bad start from Z, and still get a win, all the while Derrick Lee is in a slump.
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I guess I'm the quintessential fan. I'm overly excited at the start of every season, and normally bummed out by seasons end.:no:
 
#88
#88
Lookin like a textbook bandwagon jumper when I recently bought an Ernie Banks #14 jersey. But I was born in michigan city and was a cubs fan as a kid in the 60's. Holy Cow.
 
#89
#89
WOW 9 in a row, and really not played that well last 2 nights. Let's Go Cubbies!!
 
#91
#91
I give up, I'm pushing all-in right now on June 4th. I can't help myself, I love the damn Cubs.
 
#93
#93
hey cub fans just letting you know that the june 22 game at wrigley against the sox and the june 29th game against the sox at comiskey will both be televised on espn sunday night baseball. i know some of you may not live in the chicagoland area, but two first place baseball teams in chicago doesn't happen very often or if at all. its been fun so far. the city is buzzing for the cross town classic that will take place in a few short weeks. looking forward to it. best of luck (just not against the white sox). GO WHITE SOX!
 
#94
#94
White Sox SUCK:)

Always enjoy the Cubs n Sox. They are both pretty dog gone good this year.
 
#95
#95
abvol said:
White Sox SUCK:)

Always enjoy the Cubs n Sox. They are both pretty dog gone good this year.
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yes sir. i'm really happy with the sox pitching. offense finally woke up, but it was against the royals. i thought the o would be gone when facing the twins, but i was wrong. only a couple more weeks till the showdown between the cubs and sox.
 
#100
#100
Edmonds got karma for going on The Jungle. everybody knows after you interview with Rome you begin mashing the ball.
 
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