Official Global Warming thread (merged)

#7,028
#7,028
Persian Vol said:
Can you give me a thorough explanation on why you think that climate change is something we can't gather information about and predict? I have a hard time understanding why you think climatologist do not undergo the scientific method like any other scientist.

The system is too vast, with too many variables to test (as real scientist would do) in a lab,with no replication by others.

Governments fund research in general. Not just climatologist. Unless you can provide me definitive evidence that the government is conspiring climate change as a fear tactic to gather support, this is nothing but a conspiracy theory.

You should talk to people whose job is to solicit grants. Research isnt funded in perpetuity if there is no threat/concern etc.

I understand your position, but whatever scare tactics you were fed throughout your life does not take away from the thousands of scientific articles from a diverse range of international sources that support human influence on global warming. Whether it is within our lifespan or our grandchildrens, the threat is inevitable, and if there is the possibility of prevention, then we should take action.
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So when the science textbooks and the researchers sounded the alarm bell in my life it was "scare tactics". But in your lifetime it's "thousands of articles from a diverse range of sources". .....yeah, ok.

Lastly, settlements are discovered below sea level and there is glacial carving in the rocks of central park, N.Y. Climate is going to change radically whether we do nothing or everything.

Eta: I messed up the quote thingy. Sorry.
 
#7,030
#7,030
This...

Persian Vol said:
I posted this earlier.

http://www.pewinternet.org/2016/10/04/public-views-on-climate-change-and-climate-scientists/

"Similarly, a Pew Research Center survey of members of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) found 93% of members with a Ph.D. in Earth sciences (and 87% of all members) say the Earth is warming mostly because of human behavior."

Seems pretty straightforward. Unless of course you are skeptical of Pew Research Center as well.
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...doesn't square with this...

Persian Vol said:
Nothing is infallible, but a reliable source is a reliable source nontheless. The beauty of science is that the results are objective, and if they weren't objective, they aren't proper results. Results can easily be disproven if they aren't ....
A) Reliable
B) Valid
C) Objective

The same way the fossil fuel industry has a vested interest in opposing the concept of human made global warming? Regardless of what industry is attempting to corrupt science, the vast majority of scientists are clearly leaning in one direction, and I don't believe that the majority of these scientists are all being paid off by green energy. It's easy to make the opposite argument toward fossil fuel.
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We would need a better, or possibly a complete, understanding of all the factors which affect climate to make such a claim. As it stands, such a statement isn't reliable, valid, or objective; its unfounded conjecture which may or may not be true.
 
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#7,031
#7,031
McDad said:
So when the science textbooks and the researchers sounded the alarm bell in my life it was "scare tactics". But in your lifetime it's "thousands of articles from a diverse range of sources". .....yeah, ok.

Lastly, settlements are discovered below sea level and there is glacial carving in the rocks of central park, N.Y. Climate is going to change radically whether we do nothing or everything.

Eta: I messed up the quote thingy. Sorry.
Click to expand...

Regardless of the generation, there will always be individuals who will use global warming as a scare tactic, but that doesn't take away from the fact that it exists.

Climate change does happen, but not at the rate that is currently happening, which is the key takeaway. Climate change is not unprecedented. The rate at which it is changing is unprecedented.
 
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#7,032
#7,032
McDad said:
So when the science textbooks and the researchers sounded the alarm bell in my life it was "scare tactics". But in your lifetime it's "thousands of articles from a diverse range of sources". .....yeah, ok.

Lastly, settlements are discovered below sea level and there is glacial carving in the rocks of central park, N.Y. Climate is going to change radically whether we do nothing or everything.

Eta: I messed up the quote thingy. Sorry.
Click to expand...

I think a really big point to consider is that the technological advancement of humanity occurs at an exponential rate. Within 100 years we went from Man's first flight to sending a man made probe outside of our own solar system. We are getting to a point where we might need to stop and think "hey, are we actually having a noticeable effect on our environment on a global scale?" The population of mankind is higher than it has ever been and will only continue to grow. We will only continue to advance and how will that affect our planet in another 100 years?
 
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#7,033
#7,033
PKT_VOL said:
This...



...doesn't square with this...



We would need a better, or possibly a complete, understanding of all the factors which affect climate to make such a claim. As it stands, such a statement isn't reliable, valid, or objective; its unfounded conjecture which may or may not be true.
Click to expand...

PKT, what is your stance on climate change?
 
#7,034
#7,034
I have a question, and sincerely asking. For years it was "global warming", the ice caps are melting and such. Now you only hear "climate change". Why did the wording change?
 
#7,035
#7,035
Persian Vol said:
Regardless of the generation, there will always be individuals who will use global warming as a scare tactic, but that doesn't take away from the fact that it exists.
Click to expand...

The "individuals" using "scare tactics" were the scientific community. School text books, academia, peer reviewed literature, shows like nature, nova and Frontline on PBS. 60 minutes. These were not lone Looney bin rejects.

It's the same community, pv.

All of you who are concerned please give up your cars, your a.c., your hot water, your fridge. Lead by freaking example you hypocrites!
 
#7,036
#7,036
Persian Vol said:
Regardless of the generation, there will always be individuals who will use global warming as a scare tactic, but that doesn't take away from the fact that it exists.

Climate change does happen, but not at the rate that is currently happening, which is the key takeaway. Climate change is not unprecedented. The rate at which it is changing is unprecedented.
Click to expand...

...and I don't think it is unprecedented. Previous abrupt change has, I believe, been documented via ice core samples.
 
#7,037
#7,037
Persian Vol said:
PKT, what is your stance on climate change?
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Climate isn't static; it is continuously changing. We are/have been doing regrettable and unwise things to our environment/biological ecosystems.

I'm not a subscriber to the doom and gloom scenarios. There will be more deadly storms and weather events, but that is mostly due to higher concentrations of people in affected areas (despite better warning systems). Two reasons to be optimistic: 1) People in the U.S. and around the world care more and are more aware about the environment than ever before. 2) Technology and innovation are going to continue to find genius solutions to these problems.
 
#7,038
#7,038
joevol33 said:
I have a question, and sincerely asking. For years it was "global warming", the ice caps are melting and such. Now you only hear "climate change". Why did the wording change?
Click to expand...

I think a large reason is public perception. We've all heard the "global warming isn't real, we've had the coldest winter in years!" type statement. Rising global temperatures will result in some places being hotter, some places being colder, more weather phenomena, etc. A warming effect is by no means uniform.

I also agree that the doom and gloom scenarios are borderline fear-mongering though. I'm a strong believer that when push to comes to shove, humanity will find a solution to just about anything.
 
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#7,039
#7,039
McDad said:
The "individuals" using "scare tactics" were the scientific community. School text books, academia, peer reviewed literature, shows like nature, nova and Frontline on PBS. 60 minutes. These were not lone Looney bin rejects.

It's the same community, pv.

All of you who are concerned please give up your cars, your a.c., your hot water, your fridge. Lead by freaking example you hypocrites!
Click to expand...

I think most reasonable people do not expect that sort of radical change from others and also understand those types of changes from even large #'s of people will not make a huge difference. We aren't saying that people need to go live in the woods.
 
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#7,040
#7,040
ShowSomePride said:
I think a really big point to consider is that the technological advancement of humanity occurs at an exponential rate. Within 100 years we went from Man's first flight to sending a man made probe outside of our own solar system. We are getting to a point where we might need to stop and think "hey, are we actually having a noticeable effect on our environment on a global scale?" The population of mankind is higher than it has ever been and will only continue to grow. We will only continue to advance and how will that affect our planet in another 100 years?
Click to expand...

That's why I'm a firm believer in getting people off this rock and colonizing the solar system. Hence, why I tend to think NASA should be looking at that goal instead of becoming yet another bloated government bureaucracy. Which it really is quickly.

Elon Musk says it best. We are one global catastrophe from the human race being extinct. The technological leaps we would make from an enhanced space exploration program only helps in the long run here on Earth.
 
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#7,041
#7,041
Grand Vol said:
That's why I'm a firm believer in getting people off this rock and colonizing the solar system. Hence, why I tend to think NASA should be looking at that goal instead of becoming yet another bloated government bureaucracy. Which it really is quickly.

Elon Musk says it best. We are one global catastrophe from the human race being extinct. The technological leaps we would make from an enhanced space exploration program only helps in the long run here on Earth.
Click to expand...

I'm all in on more space exploration. The last frontier.
 
#7,042
#7,042
McDad said:
..."In my lifetime, oil would run out by the time I was 43, the Earth was going into ice age, another dustbowl was predicted, the ozone layer demise was inevitable, the Earth was warming, hurricane frequency would increase, etc. This is probably why the people my age and older hold climate "science" with profound skepticism.
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And is exactly why I say environmental science, where pollution results are observable AND testable and has proven mankind is shieting his own nest should be fully adequate to convince folk we are ******* up.

Enough toxic waste dispersion and re-uptake analysis/evaluations have been performed that we should be well aware of what the shiet we're putting out there is doing to the planet.

"Bu bu but...My DADDY tol me back in thuh day that them thar scientuts aint got shiet fer brains"!
 
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#7,043
#7,043
ShowSomePride said:
I'm all in on more space exploration. The last frontier.
Click to expand...

Private industry is taking up where the government left off. Which tends to be the case in a great many things including climate control.

The government can legislate, enact laws and regulations and sign as many treaties as they want on climate control. But until the it becomes economically viable to the private sector to enact reforms on their own, the government is spinning it's wheels in the long run.
 
#7,047
#7,047
McDad said:
...and I don't think it is unprecedented. Previous abrupt change has, I believe, been documented via ice core samples.
Click to expand...

https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

"Ice cores drawn from Greenland, Antarctica, and tropical mountain glaciers show that the Earth’s climate responds to changes in greenhouse gas levels. Ancient evidence can also be found in tree rings, ocean sediments, coral reefs, and layers of sedimentary rocks. This ancient, or paleoclimate, evidence reveals that current warming is occurring roughly ten times faster than the average rate of ice-age-recovery warming. "
 
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#7,048
#7,048
Persian Vol said:
https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

..."This ancient, or paleoclimate, evidence reveals that current warming is occurring roughly ten times faster than the average rate of ice-age-recovery warming."
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Agreed. For the the Holocene Epoch, which is the current geological epoch which started some 11,500 years ago when the glaciers began to retreat. This retreat marked the end of the glacial phase of the most recent ice age.
-----------------------
https://phys.org/news/2017-05-canadian-ice-core-samples-holocene.html

From Physics ORG

Canadian ice core samples show Holocene temperatures were higher than today
May 17, 2017 • by Bob Yirka

..."taken from the Agassiz ice cap on Ellesmere Island"..."from depths as much as a kilometer, offering a look into the distant past."..." show that air temperatures in this region are now at their warmest in the past 6,800–7,800 y, and that the recent rate of temperature change is unprecedented over the entire Holocene."...
----------------------

So we have the current rate of change of temperature increase greater than at any time over the Epoch in which the earth warmed enough to end the ice age.

I think we have some large fraction of input into the rate of change of Earth's warming. We may can, but probably not, reduce or reverse the warming trend.

We should, however pay attention to the gazillion tons of our waste train that is polluting the only possible viable nest for humankind for the next several centuries.

At least until we terraform Mars and build large enough arcs to ferry a sufficient number there to call it civilization saved instead of a miserable outpost with the last of humanity's light slowly dimming.
 
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