Official Global Warming thread (merged)

[chargervol]

If common sense was totally based on conjecture and speculation with no real tangible proof then, yeah, you're right.

If a climate scientist can point out a natural disaster, any natural disaster and give definitive proof it was caused by human impact on the environment then I would buy into the idea but as far as I know that kind of proof doesn't exist.

Climate change fear mongering is kind of sounding like the liberal atheists religion now...

Well, I'm not liberal so...
I also said understanding actions having consequences requires Common Sense. Some will always fall outside of that category.
I will now politely say that it's obvious debate between us is pointless.

 

[Persian Vol]

There is a very strong case supporting human influence of climate change. If one grants that we artificially make and release a lot of carbon dioxide (and other gases), which I don't think is controversial, and combine that with the spectrometry of carbon dioxide (and other gases) that can easily be measured in the lab, it follows that humans are artificially creating and releasing gas which have greenhouse warming properties. I think this is far from controvertible, along with our general pollution, outside nutcases.

The real question is, what is the significance of our artificial creation and releasing of these greenhouse gases given that it does seem that many areas of Earth are warming?

To answer that question with any sort of confidence, you need complete or nearly complete knowledge of the entire system. We simply don't have such knowledge. It would include all sources of greenhouse gas, all sinks, original source radiation (the Sun), flow patterns, dissipation rates, etc., and how all those pieces fit together. Focusing one aspect, of just one piece of the overall puzzle, with incomplete knowledge of all the other parts of all the other pieces, let alone their cumulative interaction, would seemingly skew any sort of conclusion.

Okay fair enough. So essentially, are you for or against Trump's actions?

 

[gcbvol]

certainly the most intelligent species to have walked the planet.

Dolphins are out there swimming around laughing at us every day. They're not walking though. Yet.

 

[Persian Vol]

Dolphins are out there swimming around laughing at us every day. They're not walking though. Yet.

Ironic you say that, because my girlfriend went to sea world today and has been snapchatting me dolphins all day.

 

[gcbvol]

Ironic you say that, because my girlfriend went to sea world today and has been snapchatting me dolphins all day.

Awesome creatures.

 

[allvol123]

How does transferring money from America to other nations help avert climate change?

It makes the middle aged mommy driving her Escalade feel much less worse about her privilege.

 

[InVOLuntary]

How does transferring money from America to other nations help avert climate change?

It just helps the liberals sleep better at night. The very rich liberals can jump in their SUV caravans on the way to the airport to catch their Lear to the Hamptons and feel like they have done their part.

 

[CountVolcula]

Okay. But what was said was that overpopulation "causes" viruses. Which simply isn't true.

I should have said spread instead of cause

 

[Pepe_Silvia]

How does transferring money from America to other nations help avert climate change?

Those nation's are gonna burn the cash we send them to create energy instead of burning coal to do it.

Problem solved.

 

[CountVolcula]

A very warm or very cold planet would negatively affect our civilization in a major way. Saying "a cold planet would be worse" is a preperosteorus argument. A warming planet is an issue, and I don't see how this is debatable.

Your paragraph on nature correcting this problem is absolutely ridiculous on so many accounts. Viruses aren't "caused" by overpopulation. I don't see how you could have came to that conclusion. Your tidbit of natural selection has little to do with population control. Keep in mind, as humans in the 21st century, we are not living in a world where natural selection still exists amongst us. In regards to carrying capacity, we aren't deer. Our population is much more complex than you are asserting. There are sociological factors that will affect our projected maximum population, primarily being the level of development of most of the world, as an increase in development leads to a decrease in population growth, and there is no telling how long that will take.

You make the assumptions that man is in control

 

[CountVolcula]

Its just like humans to believe they can control nature like they do an xbox

Build on rivers and get pissed when they get flooded

Build on a fault line, cant undestand why their house gets destroyed by an earthquake

Builds house on a beach, gets pissed at the hurricane

Builds house on volcanic island, cant understand why a pyroclastic flow blew it over

 

[Persian Vol]

You make the assumptions that man is in control

What?

 

[Grand Vol]

Its just like humans to believe they can control nature like they do an xbox

Build on rivers and get pissed when they get flooded

Build on a fault line, cant undestand why their house gets destroyed by an earthquake

Builds house on a beach, gets pissed at the hurricane

Builds house on volcanic island, cant understand why a pyroclastic flow blew it over

 

[Persian Vol]

Its just like humans to believe they can control nature like they do an xbox

Build on rivers and get pissed when they get flooded

Build on a fault line, cant undestand why their house gets destroyed by an earthquake

Builds house on a beach, gets pissed at the hurricane

Builds house on volcanic island, cant understand why a pyroclastic flow blew it over

I'm failing to see your underlying argument.

 

[AM64]

Do I believe the planet is warming?

Yes

Do I believe man is the lone cause of said warming?

No

Was the PCA going to stop it?

No

Why? Because the biggest pollutors of the planet, China and India were not required to comply by 2030. By then, the U.S. alone would have paid in nearly $1.2 trillion dollars to those same countries

A cooling planet is far worse on humanity than a warming planet.

Give it time, nature will correct the problem, which is overpopulation. A virus will come along again to make the correction. Just like with bluetongue and EHD, these are diseases caused by overpopulation of the deer herd. Nature knows its carrying capacity and will adjust. The strongest will survive and will insure the best genes are passed along

As for these people concerned about the environment, quit destroying it by paving large quantities of land, destroying habitat with your million dollar highrises, stop destroying farmland expanding suburbs, and by all means stop breathing. You are wasting good air

Libs like their heat islands; of course, they add to it all significantly by trying to cool their own spaces. But I do love the part about pollution in cities being apparent, but really less than in the country without considering the multiplying effects in cities. You'd think they might be able to look at places like LA and get a clue, but ...

I agree that one of the greatest man-made disasters is removing trees that provide cooling and scrub the air in the name of "progress". Towns and cities continually move outwards and not all of that is population increase. Rabid developers aided and abetted by uncaring and unthinking planning commissions simply rape decent land to offer "the newest in fine living".

Perhaps the newer generation of "believers" need to be acquainted with some past policies - thermostats in public buildings (like the ones they work in) must be set to the uncomfortable range to minimize energy consumption. Perhaps rationing of gas and higher utility costs to force conservation - try running an AC on solar power when the sun ain't shining. Imagine the shame in having to forego a new phone every year or so because China is having to clean up it's environment and the costs are added in. People tend to believe less fervently when they realize what the cost is to them; it's easier to go along when the thinking is that someone else has to adjust and individuals aren't much affected.

 

[CountVolcula]

I'm failing to see your underlying argument.

Nature can't be controlled

A warming planet is part of nature

A cooling planet is part of nature

Floods are part of nature

Tornados

Hurricanes

Earthquakes

Droughts

 

[CountVolcula]

Libs like their heat islands; of course, they add to it all significantly by trying to cool their own spaces. But I do love the part about pollution in cities being apparent, but really less than in the country without considering the multiplying effects in cities. You'd think they might be able to look at places like LA and get a clue, but ...

I agree that one of the greatest man-made disasters is removing trees that provide cooling and scrub the air in the name of "progress". Towns and cities continually move outwards and not all of that is population increase. Rabid developers aided and abetted by uncaring and unthinking planning commissions simply rape decent land to offer "the newest in fine living".

Perhaps the newer generation of "believers" need to be acquainted with some past policies - thermostats in public buildings (like the ones they work in) must be set to the uncomfortable range to minimize energy consumption. Perhaps rationing of gas and higher utility costs to force conservation - try running an AC on solar power when the sun ain't shining. Imagine the shame in having to forego a new phone every year or so because China is having to clean up it's environment and the costs are added in. People tend to believe less fervently when they realize what the cost is to them; it's easier to go along when the thinking is that someone else has to adjust and individuals aren't much affected.

Well said

 

[AM64]

Okay. But what was said was that overpopulation "causes" viruses. Which simply isn't true.

I don't know about that. A coven of libs packed together are certainly capable of creating incalculable and incurable ills.

 

[InVOLuntary]

Libs like their heat islands; of course, they add to it all significantly by trying to cool their own spaces. But I do love the part about pollution in cities being apparent, but really less than in the country without considering the multiplying effects in cities. You'd think they might be able to look at places like LA and get a clue, but ...

I agree that one of the greatest man-made disasters is removing trees that provide cooling and scrub the air in the name of "progress". Towns and cities continually move outwards and not all of that is population increase. Rabid developers aided and abetted by uncaring and unthinking planning commissions simply rape decent land to offer "the newest in fine living".

Perhaps the newer generation of "believers" need to be acquainted with some past policies - thermostats in public buildings (like the ones they work in) must be set to the uncomfortable range to minimize energy consumption. Perhaps rationing of gas and higher utility costs to force conservation - try running an AC on solar power when the sun ain't shining. Imagine the shame in having to forego a new phone every year or so because China is having to clean up it's environment and the costs are added in. People tend to believe less fervently when they realize what the cost is to them; it's easier to go along when the thinking is that someone else has to adjust and individuals aren't much affected.

You may be right but I was timbering some of my property and I listed the help from the TN Forestry department. I was talking to him about misgivings about it, particularly clear cutting. He, a biologist explained to me that forest really like anything else. They get to a certain point and the they die. He explained to me that clear cutting was the best option because it allowed the sun to reach the forest floor and made it easier for new trees to grow more rapidly.

I asked him about deforestation statewide and he told me we were planting more trees than we were cutting. He said that the state was more forested today than 100 years ago.

 

[volger]

The earth is flat. Is it getting hot in here or is it just me?

Climate change we all gonna diiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiie.

 

[CountVolcula]

Weather Channel: " According to computer models, tomorrow will be mostly sunny with a slight chance of rain"

Rains most of day

Person 1: "Weathermen are so unreliable. They are just mostly guessing"

Person 2: "Well, to be fair, predicting weather is not an exact science"

Weather Channel: "The drastic changes in our weather is being caused by excess levels of CO2 in the atmosphere caused by burning of fossil fuels"

Person 1 and Person 2 : " Global warming is caused by man. The Weather Channel confirms it"

 

[CountVolcula]

You may be right but I was timbering some of my property and I listed the help from the TN Forestry department. I was talking to him about misgivings about it, particularly clear cutting. He, a biologist explained to me that forest really like anything else. They get to a certain point and the they die. He explained to me that clear cutting was the best option because it allowed the sun to reach the forest floor and made it easier for new trees to grow more rapidly.

I asked him about deforestation statewide and he told me we were planting more trees than we were cutting. He said that the state was more forested today than 100 years ago.

The last is true

 

[AM64]

You may be right but I was timbering some of my property and I listed the help from the TN Forestry department. I was talking to him about misgivings about it, particularly clear cutting. He, a biologist explained to me that forest really like anything else. They get to a certain point and the they die. He explained to me that clear cutting was the best option because it allowed the sun to reach the forest floor and made it easier for new trees to grow more rapidly.

I asked him about deforestation statewide and he told me we were planting more trees than we were cutting. He said that the state was more forested today than 100 years ago.

I'm surprised by the growth in forests - and happy to know it. I can see the wisdom in clear cutting if you were planting trees for a specific reason like harvesting for pulp or lumber - otherwise it would seem to defeat the purpose in wanting the trees if you have nothing to enjoy for a number of years.

 

[AM64]

Weather Channel: " According to computer models, tomorrow will be mostly sunny with a slight chance of rain"

Rains most of day

Person 1: "Weathermen are so unreliable. They are just mostly guessing"

Person 2: "Well, to be fair, predicting weather is not an exact science"

Weather Channel: "The drastic changes in our weather is being caused by excess levels of CO2 in the atmosphere caused by burning of fossil fuels"

Person 1 and Person 2 : " Global warming is caused by man. The Weather Channel confirms it"

Another good one, Count.

 

[InVOLuntary]

I'm surprised by the growth in forests - and happy to know it. I can see the wisdom in clear cutting if you were planting trees for a specific reason like harvesting for pulp or lumber - otherwise it would seem to defeat the purpose in wanting the trees if you have nothing to enjoy for a number of years.

I went back and forth on it. I bought the property and timbering was a way to offset the cost. Of 50 acres I clear cut 14. We live on the property and I didn't want to make a mess of the place. All my misgivings were completely misplaced. It was the best thing I could of done. We would occasionally see a deer rarely see a turkey. Within two years we were over run with deer and turkey. Within 5 years you could hardly tell it was clear cut. It is truly amazing how quickly the forest recovers.