Official Global Warming thread (merged)

[CountVolcula]

Those were completely nonsensical. That's not a proper comparison whatsoever.

Bingo

The earth isnt going anywhere and we sure as hell wont "kill" it.

Humans will not live on this planet forever. We will go extinct. When? Nobody knows nor how

Probably from devolving into of bunch of self-absorbed nitwits who think you can control the heavens but can't stop illegal immigration

 

[PKT_VOL]

PKT: The Logic Police

Not so much the logic police but correcting misunderstandings about the concepts in the philosophy of science and with scientific theories themselves. It makes it difficult to have a productive discussion without ironing out the premises first.

 

[chargervol]

Same people that fret over global warming made plans to exit during the passing of Hale-Bopp, Y2K, and the end of the Mayan Calendar

Lol, you've made some backwards assed posts before but this one is award worthy. (Said with humor)
The lack of brain activity it took to buy into those is much more comparable to those in denial. Seriously think about it the general belief amongst 'non-believers'. Ranges from basically "nothing wrong with current methods, resources are endless and renewed by the resource fairy" to "how could basically adding a magnifying glass between us and the sun, raise temperatures?" Yeah, it's real mystery.

I hope that you're just taking a side because of party belief.
Think of the planet as a room, If you truly believe that you can pump any and all toxins into said room with no side effects, good grief you're a goober.

 

[CountVolcula]

Lol, you've made some backwards assed posts before but this one is award worthy. (Said with humor)
The lack of brain activity it took to buy into those is much more comparable to those in denial. Seriously think about it the general belief amongst 'non-believers'. Ranges from basically "nothing wrong with current methods, resources are endless and renewed by the resource fairy" to "how could basically adding a magnifying glass between us and the sun, raise temperatures?" Yeah, it's real mystery.

I hope that you're just taking a side because of party belief.
Think of the planet as a room, If you truly believe that you can pump any and all toxins into said room with no side effects, good grief you're a goober.

I have a goober

 

[chargervol]

I have a goober

Ok, that was funny.

 

[Persian Vol]

Bingo

The earth isnt going anywhere and we sure as hell wont "kill" it.

Humans will not live on this planet forever. We will go extinct. When? Nobody knows nor how

Probably from devolving into of bunch of self-absorbed nitwits who think you can control the heavens but can't stop illegal immigration

I'm not sure what your definition of "kill" is exactly.

"The earth isn't going anywhere. We will go extinct". I'm curious to why these claims of yours are any more factual than any scientific data in regards to climate change. A bit of hypocrisy if you ask me.

 

[Persian Vol]

I bet all those ancient civilizations in the Sahara were pissed at all the man-made global warming ruining their lush environment

What exactly are you insinuating?

 

[ShowSomePride]

These same scientists also said, let me repeat, these same scientists ALSO said:

Ice age by 2020
Widespread famine and food riots by 1995
Ozone layer gone
NYC underwater
Relentless hurricanes
Midwest decimated by drought
Antartica gone by now
Polar ice caps melted by now


But I guess you enjoy eating the BS sandwiches they keep feeding you.


Oh...and when did every state become filled with "southerners"?

No offense but what you seem to remember the media portraying climate change as 30 years ago does not reflect the scientific consensus at the time.

If you want to browse Web of Science and hunt down well-cited published articles in that timeframe that portray the doom and gloom scenario you are pushing that would add a lot of credence to your argument

Additionally, to your point on ozone depletion. The United States and many other countries made a concerted effect decades ago to lessen the use of ozone-depleting substances and it has made a significant impact towards healing our ozone layer.

 

[CountVolcula]

Ok, that was funny.

Do I believe the planet is warming?

Yes

Do I believe man is the lone cause of said warming?

No

Was the PCA going to stop it?

No

Why? Because the biggest pollutors of the planet, China and India were not required to comply by 2030. By then, the U.S. alone would have paid in nearly $1.2 trillion dollars to those same countries

A cooling planet is far worse on humanity than a warming planet.

Give it time, nature will correct the problem, which is overpopulation. A virus will come along again to make the correction. Just like with bluetongue and EHD, these are diseases caused by overpopulation of the deer herd. Nature knows its carrying capacity and will adjust. The strongest will survive and will insure the best genes are passed along

As for these people concerned about the environment, quit destroying it by paving large quantities of land, destroying habitat with your million dollar highrises, stop destroying farmland expanding suburbs, and by all means stop breathing. You are wasting good air

 

[Persian Vol]

No offense but what you seem to remember the media portraying climate change as 30 years ago does not reflect the scientific consensus at the time.

If you want to browse Web of Science and hunt down well-cited published articles in that timeframe that portray the doom and gloom scenario you are pushing that would add a lot of credence to your argument

The majority of the average joe's climate knowledge is not directly from a scientific study, but from the media who takes said studies information and sensationalizes it like they do for everything.

 

[CountVolcula]

I'm not sure what your definition of "kill" is exactly.

"The earth isn't going anywhere. We will go extinct". I'm curious to why these claims of yours are any more factual than any scientific data in regards to climate change. A bit of hypocrisy if you ask me.

How many species have lived on this planet that are now extinct?

The math is against us and its pretty stupid to believe we can stop it

 

[CountVolcula]

What exactly are you insinuating?

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/05/080508-green-sahara.html

 

[FLVOL_79]

Lol, you've made some backwards assed posts before but this one is award worthy. (Said with humor)
The lack of brain activity it took to buy into those is much more comparable to those in denial. Seriously think about it the general belief amongst 'non-believers'. Ranges from basically "nothing wrong with current methods, resources are endless and renewed by the resource fairy" to "how could basically adding a magnifying glass between us and the sun, raise temperatures?" Yeah, it's real mystery.

I hope that you're just taking a side because of party belief.
Think of the planet as a room, If you truly believe that you can pump any and all toxins into said room with no side effects, good grief you're a goober.

No one believes resources are endless. Everyone knows new fuel resources will have to be developed. The problem is somehow folks like you apparently can't see the difference between that and the notion that climate change is decimating the earth if we all don't kill coal and oil right now and switch to inadequate clean energy. And apparently the government has to tell you what to do because thinking for yourself is hard.

If we stopped burning fossil fuels right now can you imagine what would happen? World economies would collapse. Like flying to Thailand for super sexy fun time? Thats not happening. Like those cheap widgets from Walmart? Well..sorry..thats on a 6 month sail boat back order. Oh you want to air condition your house? hahahaha A/C is sooooo ancient history its a fossil. Oh you commute 50 miles to work? Thats a hell of a bike ride! What? You need an cat scan to check for a brain tumor? Meh hospitals are all shut down since nothing can sustain the amount of power required to run them.

Look on the bright side..with the apparent impending destruction of the world I bet the scientists will get around to developing fuel alternatives to save the world much quicker now! I mean if you were relying on the government then..I guess you don't know about our contracting processes.

 

[FLVOL_79]

No offense but what you seem to remember the media portraying climate change as 30 years ago does not reflect the scientific consensus at the time.

If you want to browse Web of Science and hunt down well-cited published articles in that timeframe that portray the doom and gloom scenario you are pushing that would add a lot of credence to your argument

Additionally, to your point on ozone depletion. The United States and many other countries made a concerted effect decades ago to lessen the use of ozone-depleting substances and it has made a significant impact towards healing our ozone layer.

Everything I stated is from the ICCP and people who helped form it. Some of them went to Princeton so..take it with a grain of salt. This is a message board, not a thesis paper. The intent is for others interested in learning the crazy of climate science that has been going on for a long, long time, they can do the leg work. Unlike what many have been taught, you aren't going to have someone holding your hand to get you through everything forever..

 

[chargervol]

Do I believe the planet is warming?

Yes

Do I believe man is the lone cause of said warming?

Shortened your post only because the rest was in response to others, not my posts.
Man is absolutely not the lone cause, we agree. The issue is our contributions. The Earth has always self regulated but we are adding an extra element that doesn't fall into the regular category. Common sense will tell you that leads to a more intense change and a longer recovery.

We also agree that the planet will recover, probably shake us off like a bad case of fleas. It's not the Earth's survival I concern myself with, it's the unnecessary hardships placed on either my children or grandchildren or great-grandchildren, when we knew better.

If you haven't figured it out by now, I'm far from a tree-hugging hippie. But we know enough to realize we're doing some damage, and we're being selfish in letting our heirs pay for our actions. We're a little spoiled in our ways and a little lazy on changing them.

Deep down every conservative here knows that all actions have consequences, hell, they preach it on every other subject. They know the damage is being done, it's time to brag about coming up with the best solution and stop pretending it doesn't exist.

 

[McDad]

How does transferring money from America to other nations help avert climate change?

 

[chargervol]

No one believes resources are endless. Everyone knows new fuel resources will have to be developed. The problem is somehow folks like you apparently can't see the difference between that and the notion that climate change is decimating the earth if we all don't kill coal and oil right now and switch to inadequate clean energy. And apparently the government has to tell you what to do because thinking for yourself is hard.

If we stopped burning fossil fuels right now can you imagine what would happen? World economies would collapse. Like flying to Thailand for super sexy fun time? Thats not happening. Like those cheap widgets from Walmart? Well..sorry..thats on a 6 month sail boat back order. Oh you want to air condition your house? hahahaha A/C is sooooo ancient history its a fossil. Oh you commute 50 miles to work? Thats a hell of a bike ride! What? You need an cat scan to check for a brain tumor? Meh hospitals are all shut down since nothing can sustain the amount of power required to run them.

Look on the bright side..with the apparent impending destruction of the world I bet the scientists will get around to developing fuel alternatives to save the world much quicker now! I mean if you were relying on the government then..I guess you don't know about our contracting processes.

Not to take away from an otherwise wise great speech, but I said absolutely none of that. Another reason I hate politics, people use the word "you" because someone else who disagrees with them made a separate statement.

I have never once suggested immediately stopping the use of any of the stuff you mentioned but those who deny any problem, also attempt to make no resolution. You see the difference?

Seriously, you just said a ton of sh!t in your post that didn't apply to anything I have ever said. Don't do that.

 

[Persian Vol]

Do I believe the planet is warming?

Yes

Do I believe man is the lone cause of said warming?

No

Was the PCA going to stop it?

No

Why? Because the biggest pollutors of the planet, China and India were not required to comply by 2030. By then, the U.S. alone would have paid in nearly $1.2 trillion dollars to those same countries

A cooling planet is far worse on humanity than a warming planet.

Give it time, nature will correct the problem, which is overpopulation. A virus will come along again to make the correction. Just like with bluetongue and EHD, these are diseases caused by overpopulation of the deer herd. Nature knows its carrying capacity and will adjust. The strongest will survive and will insure the best genes are passed along

As for these people concerned about the environment, quit destroying it by paving large quantities of land, destroying habitat with your million dollar highrises, stop destroying farmland expanding suburbs, and by all means stop breathing. You are wasting good air

A very warm or very cold planet would negatively affect our civilization in a major way. Saying "a cold planet would be worse" is a preperosteorus argument. A warming planet is an issue, and I don't see how this is debatable.

Your paragraph on nature correcting this problem is absolutely ridiculous on so many accounts. Viruses aren't "caused" by overpopulation. I don't see how you could have came to that conclusion. Your tidbit of natural selection has little to do with population control. Keep in mind, as humans in the 21st century, we are not living in a world where natural selection still exists amongst us. In regards to carrying capacity, we aren't deer. Our population is much more complex than you are asserting. There are sociological factors that will affect our projected maximum population, primarily being the level of development of most of the world, as an increase in development leads to a decrease in population growth, and there is no telling how long that will take.

 

[FLVOL_79]

Shortened your post only because the rest was in response to others, not my posts.
Man is absolutely not the lone cause, we agree. The issue is our contributions. The Earth has always self regulated but we are adding an extra element that doesn't fall into the regular category. Common sense will tell you that leads to a more intense change and a longer recovery.

We also agree that the planet will recover, probably shake us off like a bad case of fleas. It's not the Earth's survival I concern myself with, it's the unnecessary hardships placed on either my children or grandchildren or great-grandchildren, when we knew better.

If you haven't figured it out by now, I'm far from a tree-hugging hippie. But we know enough to realize we're doing some damage, and we're being selfish in letting our heirs pay for our actions. We're a little spoiled in our ways and a little lazy on changing them.

Deep down every conservative here knows that all actions have consequences, hell, they preach it on every other subject. They know the damage is being done, it's time to brag about coming up with the best solution and stop pretending it doesn't exist.

If common sense was totally based on conjecture and speculation with no real tangible proof then, yeah, you're right.

If a climate scientist can point out a natural disaster, any natural disaster and give definitive proof it was caused by human impact on the environment then I would buy into the idea but as far as I know that kind of proof doesn't exist.

Climate change fear mongering is kind of sounding like the liberal atheists religion now...

 

[FLVOL_79]

A very warm or very cold planet would negatively affect our civilization in a major way. Saying "a cold planet would be worse" is a preperosteorus argument. A warming planet is an issue, and I don't see how this is debatable.

Your paragraph on nature correcting this problem is absolutely ridiculous on so many accounts. Viruses aren't "caused" by overpopulation. I don't see how you could have came to that conclusion. Your tidbit of natural selection has little to do with population control. Keep in mind, as humans in the 21st century, we are not living in a world where natural selection still exists amongst us. In regards to carrying capacity, we aren't deer. Our population is much more complex than you are asserting. There are sociological factors that will affect our projected maximum population, primarily being the level of development of most of the world, as an increase in development leads to a decrease in population growth, and there is no telling how long that will take.

Viruses can spread like wildfire through over population.

 

[BeecherVol]

Get under your bed!

 

[Persian Vol]

How many species have lived on this planet that are now extinct?

The math is against us and its pretty stupid to believe we can stop it

I am stating that it is hypocritical to criticize scientists for predicting something to then make an assertion with nothing to back it up other than your logic.

For what it's worth, there is no telling what will happen to humanity, but we are certainly the most intelligent species to have walked the planet.

 

[Persian Vol]

Viruses can spread like wildfire through over population.

Okay. But what was said was that overpopulation "causes" viruses. Which simply isn't true.

 

[FLVOL_79]

How does transferring money from America to other nations help avert climate change?

It all boils down to feelings. People want to be able to pat themselves on the back for doing something that makes them feel good.

 

[PKT_VOL]

PKT, your hatred toward absolutes aside, would you say that there is more evidence supporting human influence on climate change than there are against human influence?

There is a very strong case supporting human influence of climate change. If one grants that we artificially make and release a lot of carbon dioxide (and other gases), which I don't think is controversial, and combine that with the spectrometry of carbon dioxide (and other gases) that can easily be measured in the lab, it follows that humans are artificially creating and releasing gas which have greenhouse warming properties. I think this is far from controvertible, along with our general pollution, outside nutcases.

The real question is, what is the significance of our artificial creation and releasing of these greenhouse gases given that it does seem that many areas of Earth are warming?

To answer that question with any sort of confidence, you need complete or nearly complete knowledge of the entire system. We simply don't have such knowledge. It would include all sources of greenhouse gas, all sinks, original source radiation (the Sun), flow patterns, dissipation rates, etc., and how all those pieces fit together. Focusing one aspect, of just one piece of the overall puzzle, with incomplete knowledge of all the other parts of all the other pieces, let alone their cumulative interaction, would seemingly skew any sort of conclusion.