Official Global Warming thread (merged)

[Carl Pickens]

??
We are still in an ice age, but the Earth has always had periods of warming and cooling.
That has nothing to do with man's impact on those natural changes.

So what’s the problem?

 

[luthervol]

So what’s the problem?

Natural vs unnatural. Rate of change. Pollution.

 

[Weezy]

I don't think it's fair to say renewables aren't reliable. I don't think we should be relying on them as a baseload but I think they're important in the ever evolving energy strategy. I've said for a long time that climate activists who are anti-nuclear are either delusional or aren't actually serious.

That said, nuclear does have some pretty big obstacles--cost and long-term storage of high-level waste that stays radioactive for thousands of years.

The isotopes that are radioactive for thousands of years aren't that radioactive. That's why they hang around for thousands of years. There are toxic metals that are toxic always, and I'm sure you will find some in batteries or solar panels. I would argue nuclear waste is the only waste that's just not being dumped.

And wind and solar are reliably unreliable. That's why ERCOT had only counted on a fraction of it being available when they needed it most. And it's laughably the reason scientists and greens are saying this is not wind's fault.

Costs and particularly capital up-front costs are the reason nuclear is dead in the West. We will only build again once China demonstrates in the East that they can do it on budget and on time. And China will be building them here if it happens. But wind and solar are not cheap either. Natural Gas is the cheap part. Wind and solar are just natural gas's PR front since it's the one providing power and the only reliable source that can ramp with them.

 

[Wafflestomper]

Deep minds at work

Team develops new way to recycle nuclear waste - Futurity

There are lots of nuclear technologies out there improving the fuel cycle but there will still be some high level radioactive waste that needs disposal. The government's flip flopping on Yucca Mountain hasn't helped any. Lots of plants are storing spent fuel in dry storage casks on-site, which is not exactly ideal.

 

[ajvol01]

I will reclarify...jeepers. BS was rhetorical to them not taking the issue seriously, hence hypocritical. The optics are horrible. Dont ask us to take it seriously if their deeds dont match their words. This is an issue that is said to end humankind as we currently know it at the expense of hundreds of trillions of dollars and livelihoods. If this was such a Earth changing situation, dont you think they should lead by example, which as Louder pointed out, and you have avoided answering?

And NO, I do not think you were attacking me, but have avoided answering the question.

Not to mention who is getting rich off the climate change / green industry

 

[Orangeburst]

There are lots of nuclear technologies out there improving the fuel cycle but there will still be some high level radioactive waste that needs disposal. The government's flip flopping on Yucca Mountain hasn't helped any. Lots of plants are storing spent fuel in dry storage casks on-site, which is not exactly ideal.

I am aware. I am not an expert by any means, but spent time on site and what I gathered over the years. I used to get my rad reports, or whatever u call them, from TVA in the mail.

 

[Wafflestomper]

The isotopes that are radioactive for thousands of years aren't that radioactive. That's why they hang around for thousands of years. There are toxic metals that are toxic always, and I'm sure you will find some in batteries or solar panels. I would argue nuclear waste is the only waste that's just not being dumped.

This isn't entirely true. Most of the high energy fission products decay off relatively quickly but there are other isotopes, like tech-99, that have a half life of ~200k+ years and can be an issue if not stored properly.

And wind and solar are reliably unreliable. That's why ERCOT had only counted on a fraction of it being available when they needed it most. And it's laughably the reason scientists and greens are saying this is not wind's fault.

What do you mean by "unreliable"? I'm not an expert on wind or solar but they're seemingly much less complicated than, say, nuclear.

Costs and particularly capital up-front costs are the reason nuclear is dead in the West. We will only build again once China demonstrates in the East that they can do it on budget and on time. And China will be building them here if it happens. But wind and solar are not cheap either. Natural Gas is the cheap part. Wind and solar are just natural gas's PR front since it's the one providing power and the only reliable source that can ramp with them.

The reason costs are so high is because of regulations. China building them here probably won't help that. The nuclear industry is much safer than any other method of commercial power generation and that's not a coincidence. We spend a countless amount of money on nuclear grade part dedications, analysis work, etc.

 

[LouderVol]

This isn't entirely true. Most of the high energy fission products decay off relatively quickly but there are other isotopes, like tech-99, that have a half life of ~200k+ years and can be an issue if not stored properly.



What do you mean by "unreliable"? I'm not an expert on wind or solar but they're seemingly much less complicated than, say, nuclear.



The reason costs are so high is because of regulations. China building them here probably won't help that. The nuclear industry is much safer than any other method of commercial power generation and that's not a coincidence. We spend a countless amount of money on nuclear grade part dedications, analysis work, etc.

cant control the weather.
At least with the other various sources you can control the fuel supply to am extent.

Unless you know Cobra Commander we cant do anything about something as simple as clouds.

 

[AM64]

This isn't entirely true. Most of the high energy fission products decay off relatively quickly but there are other isotopes, like tech-99, that have a half life of ~200k+ years and can be an issue if not stored properly.



What do you mean by "unreliable"? I'm not an expert on wind or solar but they're seemingly much less complicated than, say, nuclear.



The reason costs are so high is because of regulations. China building them here probably won't help that. The nuclear industry is much safer than any other method of commercial power generation and that's not a coincidence. We spend a countless amount of money on nuclear grade part dedications, analysis work, etc.

I understand your point now. You are talking mechanical, and I think most of the rest of us are more or less accepting that but thinking wind power reliability as it relates to wind itself.

 

[Wafflestomper]

I understand your point now. You are talking mechanical, and I think most of the rest of us are more or less accepting that but thinking wind power reliability as it relates to wind itself.

I see. I'm not sure I'd characterize that as unreliable though. If I buy a moped to drive to work to save gas I'm not going to call it unreliable because the weather isn't conducive to its everyday use. Those are just inherent limitations and probably very few people would have a moped as an only vehicle.

 

[LouderVol]

I see. I'm not sure I'd characterize that as unreliable though. If I buy a moped to drive to work to save gas I'm not going to call it unreliable because the weather isn't conducive to its everyday use. Those are just inherent limitations and probably very few people would have a moped as an only vehicle.

It's a huge limitation if you are expecting or wanting to the whole grid, or a sizable portion of it, to run off them.

 

[Wafflestomper]

It's a huge limitation if you are expecting or wanting to the whole grid, or a sizable portion of it, to run off them.

Well that's why you only use it to supplement another source I guess. All forms of energy have drawbacks or else we'd only use one.

 

[Vol Main]

My layman's understanding of a warming polar vortex: We know that the Arctic is warming faster than temperate regions. Warming air in the Arctic can destabilize the frigid currents of air circulating around it. With extreme cold temperatures, the currents of arctic air tend to hold in a tight circle, the polar vortex. When the air in that region warms slightly, the frigid air circulating around the North Pole holds less tightly. Skadoosh, more lobes of arctic air get away from the circle. A few degrees of warming allows the polar vortex to loosen. More of its cold air travels further from the polar vortex to cause colder weather down South.

3 Things People Get Wrong About The Polar Vortex And Climate Change

 

[AM64]

My layman's understanding of a warming polar vortex: Warming air in the Arctic can destabilize the frigid currents of air circulating around it. With extreme cold temperatures, the currents of arctic air tend to hold in a tight circle, the polar vortex. When the air in that region warms slightly, the frigid air circulating around the North Pole holds less tightly. Skadoosh, more lobes of arctic air get away from the circle. A few degrees of warming allows the polar vortex to loosen. More of its cold air travels further from the polar vortex.

3 Things People Get Wrong About The Polar Vortex And Climate Change

And there it is. Why the cold weather is a product of global warming.

 

[VolStrom]

And there it is. Why the cold weather is a product of global warming.

Well I think the only thing that can fix the weather is just killing off 90% of people. Any volunteers among the liberal crowd?

 

[Orangeburst]

Texas is unique..Anyone here ever have to sign up for a power plan with a broker of which there are countless? Yes, you sign up for what you anticipate using. You exceed it, you pay substantially. This aint move to new city in TN and call the local power provider.

Power to Choose - Shop Texas Energy Plans for the Best Electric Rates (comparepower.com)

 

[AM64]

Well I think the only thing that can fix the weather is just killing off 90% of people. Any volunteers among the liberal crowd?

Population growth is third rail for man made climate change advocates. It's the thing they have to ignore, because if they admit population and pollution are connected, they are dead in the water. The worst part - the two countries with the worst pollution and the worst record of pollution control on energy and manufacturing are China and India - the two countries with the largest and fastest growing populations - and two countries getting a pass from the Paris agreement. The US has something under 350M people; China is approaching 1.5B and India is approaching 1.4B. The US is one of the larger world populations simply because a lot of our states are the size of other countries.

 

[VolStrom]

Texas is unique..Anyone here ever have to sign up for a power plan with a broker of which there are countless? Yes, you sign up for what you anticipate using. You exceed it, you pay substantially. This aint move to new city in TN and call the local power provider.

Power to Choose - Shop Texas Energy Plans for the Best Electric Rates (comparepower.com)

I read today that the state mandated the price of a kilowatt of electricity to be $9 in order to reduce demand. Apparently some people couldn't change suppliers and weren't under a fixed price plan and their electric bill are in the thousands. If that is true it's ********. I pay somewhere around 10 cents a kilowatt/hr, imagine being charged 90 times that?

 

[AM64]

Texas is unique..Anyone here ever have to sign up for a power plan with a broker of which there are countless? Yes, you sign up for what you anticipate using. You exceed it, you pay substantially. This aint move to new city in TN and call the local power provider.

Power to Choose - Shop Texas Energy Plans for the Best Electric Rates (comparepower.com)

I'm staying far far away from TX. That kind of craziness is for somebody else.

 

[Orangeburst]

I read today that the state mandated the price of a kilowatt of electricity to be $9 in order to reduce demand. Apparently some people couldn't change suppliers and weren't under a fixed price plan and their electric bill are in the thousands. If that is true it's ********. I pay somewhere around 10 cents a kilowatt/hr, imagine being charged 90 times that?

I cant remember, but I do not believe there was a fixed price plan option other than being within you anticipated monthly KW useage. You kinda pick your plan on what you anticpate, but you go over you pay a substantially higher $/KW.

The sign up options and brokers will fry your brain, especially when one is new, a new residence, and not used to such.

 

[Orangeburst]

I'm staying far far away from TX. That kind of craziness is for somebody else.

Hog would love it..lol

 

[AM64]

I cant remember, but I do not believe there was a fixed price plan option other than being within you anticipated monthly KW useage. You kinda pick your plan on what you anticpate, but you go over you pay a substantially higher $/KW.

The sign up options and brokers will fry your brain, especially when one is new, a new residence, and not used to such.

So supposedly the concept was to replace regulators with competing middlemen who wheel and deal blocks of power rather than actually producing it, and competition would drive prices - which works both ways? I like competition when it's a true competitive market. For utilities I'll pick regulated.

 

[Vol Main]

Costs and particularly capital up-front costs are the reason nuclear is dead in the West. We will only build again once China demonstrates in the East that they can do it on budget and on time. And China will be building them here if it happens. But wind and solar are not cheap either. Natural Gas is the cheap part. Wind and solar are just natural gas's PR front since it's the one providing power and the only reliable source that can ramp with them.

Yes, nuclear power plants are extremely costly to fabricate. Higher insurance costs for new fabrications after Three Mile Island priced new nuclear power plants out of the market. The fact is that power generation from solar and wind are now cost competitive. I am seeing reports that their efficiency ratings are actually making their electricity cheaper than power from fossil fuel plants. Of course fossil fuel prices fluctuate, to extremes.

 

[Vol Main]

And there it is. Why the cold weather is a product of global warming.

Well, there it is, what scientific observation is telling us about the process of global warming. The idea that global warming means gradually warmer weather throughout the year in every region of the world is simply not accurate. It is not a straight line. Please correct me if I am wrong, because you definitely give me the impression of a man whose thinking about science is determined by your thinking about politics.

 

[C-south]

Well, there it is, what scientific observation is telling us about the process of global warming. The idea that global warming means gradually warmer weather throughout the year in every region of the world is simply not accurate. It is not a straight line.

Definitely not a straight line. They move it to where they need it to fit their narrative.