Oil Rig Explosion

#201
#201
Velo Vol said:
I'm getting the impression that either:

the gurus really don't know what kind of environmental impact this spill is having, or

they're doing a good job of hiding it.
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Or... they are doing a good job of cleaing it up and containing it. Or... the media has done a fine job of making it seem worse than it is.
 
#202
#202
Velo Vol said:
I'm getting the impression that either:

the gurus really don't know what kind of environmental impact this spill is having, or

they're doing a good job of hiding it.
Click to expand...

or its not really that huge of a mess because oil has been naturally seeping into the oceans for millions of years and the oceans can handle it
 
#203
#203
Why are people coming to the defense of an oil company?

If the leak was stopped today this would still be a huge disaster.

The media doesn't have to work very hard to make millions of barrels of oil floating off the Emerald Coast look "bad." Put just an ounce of oil in your tomato planter and see how that works out.
 
#205
#205
VolsNSkinsFan said:
or its not really that huge of a mess because oil has been naturally seeping into the oceans for millions of years and the oceans can handle it
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Because seeping equals thousands of psi's of oil and natural gas squirting a minimum of 5,000 barrels of oil into the water a day, for weeks.

Will the environment be fine 1,000 years from now if left alone? Sure. But we aren't going to leave it alone. We can't. And I don't think tourist communities like Destin are going to enjoy black water on their white beaches.
 
#206
#206
volinbham said:
It's bad anyway you look at it - and I'm a drill baby drill guy.
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Do you think BP deserves to be scrutinized on this, and if found negligent suffer repercussions? Just curious. I am dumb-founded hearing many people make excuses for them when there is growing evidence that they weren't running the tightest and safest installation they could have been.
 
#207
#207
i am not defending an oil company, but the spill just isnt that bad.

A) the Oil is really good (light sweet)

B) Oceans can hendle it because lots of oil seeps into the ocean and has been for millions of years


Recent studies have suggested that seepage rates in the Gulf of Mexico are much higher than reported in previous NRC studies (1975, 1985). MacDonald et al., (1996) using submarines and remote sensing have identified at least 63 individual seeps (Fig. 2-11). For example, using satellite remote sensing to map oil slicks, MacDonald et al. (1993) estimated the total seepage in a region of about 23,000 km2 in the Gulf to be about 17,000 tonnes per year. Later, however, MacDonald (1998) conservatively estimated a much lower rate of about 4,000 tonnes per year as a minimum. The difference in these estimates results from the various underlying assumptions that have been used and emphasizes the difficulty in establishing seepage rates. These estimates have now been revised based on SAR and other remote sensing data, compiled by commercial enterprises (Earth Satellite Corporation and Unocal Corporation). With the Earth Satellite data set, Mitchell et al. (1999) estimated oil seepage rates ranging from about 40,000 to 100,000 tonnes per year, with an average rate of 70,000 tonnes per year. This value accounts only for the northern Gulf of Mexico and excludes the Campeche Basin offshore from Mexico, one of the more prolific petroleum basins in the world. Assuming the seep scales are proportional to the surface area, a reasonable seep rate for the entire Gulf is about double the northern Gulf estimate, giving a total Gulf of Mexico seep rate of about 140,000 tonnes per year (ranging from 80,000 to 200,000 tonnes per year).
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Oil in the Sea III: Inputs, Fates, and Effects

1 tonn of oil = 7 barrels so about 280K-700K barrels of oil seep naturally into the Northern GOM every year
 
#209
#209
VolsNSkinsFan said:
i am not defending an oil company, but the spill just isnt that bad.

A) the Oil is really good (light sweet)

B) Oceans can hendle it because lots of oil seeps into the ocean and has been for millions of years




Oil in the Sea III: Inputs, Fates, and Effects

1 tonn of oil = 7 barrels so about 280K-700K barrels of oil seep naturally into the Northern GOM every year
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There's a big difference between an occasional tar ball washing up on the beach, and liquid oil permeating the estuaries and water table in the tidal zone.
 
#211
#211
IPorange said:
Do you think BP deserves to be scrutinized on this, and if found negligent suffer repercussions? Just curious. I am dumb-founded hearing many people make excuses for them when there is growing evidence that they weren't running the tightest and safest installation they could have been.
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If negligent - absolutely.

If not negligent - still need to pay for damages but we can leave the punative off.

Ultimately, I'm hoping this spawns new innovation in technology AND the public keeps this event in perspective assuming new innovation can mitigate future occurrences.
 
#213
#213
volinbham said:
If negligent - absolutely.

If not negligent - still need to pay for damages but we can leave the punative off.

Ultimately, I'm hoping this spawns new innovation in technology AND the public keeps this event in perspective assuming new innovation can mitigate future occurrences.
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This is where I am at. I just hate to see people minimize things. Obviously it's not like we have Ebola-infected monkeys floating on plutonium rafts out there, but it isn't like an old Chevy rolled into the lake, either.
 
#214
#214
volinbham said:
If negligent - absolutely.

If not negligent - still need to pay for damages but we can leave the punative off.

Ultimately, I'm hoping this spawns new innovation in technology AND the public keeps this event in perspective assuming new innovation can mitigate future occurrences.
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all the evidence provided supports them being negligent. but as they say s- happens. one manager from bp screwing up or being lazy or whatever doesn't mean the oil industry or bp as a whole have major problems. personally i'm not concerned that BP is going to go unpunished.
 
#216
#216
NY times liberal enough for ya

News Analysis - Gulf Oil Spill Is Bad, but How Bad? - NYTimes.com

The ruptured well, currently pouring an estimated 210,000 gallons of oil a day into the gulf, could flow for years and still not begin to approach the 36 billion gallons of oil spilled by retreating Iraqi forces when they left Kuwait in 1991. It is not yet close to the magnitude of the Ixtoc I blowout in the Bay of Campeche in Mexico in 1979, which spilled an estimated 140 million gallons of crude before the gusher could be stopped.
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Right now what people are fearing has not materialized,” said Edward B. Overton, professor emeritus of environmental science at Louisiana State University and an expert on oil spills. “People have the idea of an Exxon Valdez, with a gunky, smelly black tide looming over the horizon waiting to wash ashore. I do not anticipate this will happen down here unless things get a lot worse.”
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The sky is not falling,” said Quenton R. Dokken, a marine biologist and the executive director of the Gulf of Mexico Foundation, a conservation group in Corpus Christi, Tex. “We’ve certainly stepped in a hole and we’re going to have to work ourselves out of it, but it isn’t the end of the Gulf of Mexico.”

Engineers said the type of oil pouring out is lighter than the heavy crude spilled by the Exxon Valdez, evaporates more quickly and is easier to burn. It also appears to respond to the use of dispersants, which break up globs of oil and help them sink. The oil is still capable of significant damage, particularly when it is churned up with water and forms a sort of mousse that floats and can travel long distances
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The gulf is not a pristine environment and has survived both chronic and acute pollution problems before. Thousands of gallons of oil flow into the gulf from natural undersea well seeps every day, engineers say, and the scores of refineries and chemical plants that line the shore from Mexico to Mississippi pour untold volumes of pollutants into the water.

After the Ixtoc spill 31 years ago, the second-largest oil release in history, the gulf rebounded. Within three years, there was little visible trace of the spill off the Mexican coast, which was compounded by a tanker accident in the gulf a few months later that released 2.6 million additional gallons, experts said.

“The gulf is tremendously resilient,” said Dr. Dokken, the marine biologist. “But we’ve always got to ask ourselves how long can we keep heaping these insults on the gulf and having it bounce back. As a scientist, I have to say I just don’t know.”
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#218
#218
IPorange said:
Why are people coming to the defense of an oil company?

If the leak was stopped today this would still be a huge disaster.

The media doesn't have to work very hard to make millions of barrels of oil floating off the Emerald Coast look "bad." Put just an ounce of oil in your tomato planter and see how that works out.
Click to expand...

Millions of barrels? Who needs to media to exaggerate the issue when others can do it for them. But, to answer your question - who said I was coming to the defense of BP? I'm just stating facts and not throwing out misguided opinions which betray my bias.

Here is a saying that leading pollution experts have been using for yeas - "the solution to pollution is dilution." Fortunately, for the Gulf Coast and the rest of us, the GOM has a fairly large volume.
 
#219
#219
IPorange said:
Do you think BP deserves to be scrutinized on this, and if found negligent suffer repercussions? Just curious. I am dumb-founded hearing many people make excuses for them when there is growing evidence that they weren't running the tightest and safest installation they could have been.
Click to expand...

Again, don't believe everything you read in the papers. BP has long been recognized in the oil industry as one of the leaders in safety and technological advances. Contrary to popular belief, the oil companies do not run driling rigs. BP could no more force a tool pusher or driller to do something unsafe then I could force you to shoot yourself.

Yes, there were some failures here. But, there is no systemic failure on BP's fault. FYI, and this isn't pointed to anyone in particular - can we please stop talking about the acoustic fail-safes? The BOP was functioned from the control room on the DWH and the BOP failed to shut. ROV's have been trying to manually close the BOP and were unsuccesful. The acoustic deal would have resulted in the same... BOP still open.
 
#221
#221
Orangetoes said:
Millions of barrels? Who needs to media to exaggerate the issue when others can do it for them. But, to answer your question - who said I was coming to the defense of BP? I'm just stating facts and not throwing out misguided opinions which betray my bias.

Here is a saying that leading pollution experts have been using for yeas - "the solution to pollution is dilution." Fortunately, for the Gulf Coast and the rest of us, the GOM has a fairly large volume.
Click to expand...

I meant gallons, and I believe it was surgeons who coined that phrase.
 
#222
#222
i'd agree in general oreganetoes, but there is some evidence that a BP manager overruled the transocean peopel on the site when it came to cementing the well.
 
#223
#223
If the 70,000 barrels a day estimate is correct, then it is millions of barrels. But, as I've said, I don't believe that the guy from Purdue's estimate is correct. I figured you meant gallons.
 
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