Ole Miss Tries To Stop 'Dixie' Chant

[Snakes on a Wii]

If you really think this is true answer these 2 questions:

The Emancipation Proclamation was enacted in 1863. The war started in 1861. If it was SOLEY over slavery why didn't the EP happen at the outbreak of the war?

Also, then the Union got around to the EP it was only active in rebellious states. Why?

The answer is that the union had no interest in ending slavery in the south. They did have a platform to stop the proliferation of slavery.

Also, very few people actually owned slaves but many a poor southern boy fought and died under the rebel flag.
Is it possible that the flag and all the pro Southern chants are in praise of the poor Southerners that took up the call to defend their homes from a foreign invader?

At the end of the day you choose to be offended by this historic symbol or not. The choice is yours.

Your EP argument is fallacious. Lincoln wanted to avoid a war, and issuing an EP would only spark one. The entire reason the South was seceding was based on the fear that Lincoln would do something like issue an EP.

The reason why Lincoln's EP only affected the South lies in the EP's purpose. Before, freed slaves were not being returned to their owners after being liberated by the North because the Union claimed that they were "contraband of war". This indicated that the South was a separate sovereign nation, which Lincoln was denying. Moreover, Lincoln wanted to avoid pissing off other states in the Union, lest they join the Confederacy. Finally, the EP would hurt the Confederate's war effort, because many slaves heard of it and fled to the North.

And your last argument misses the point. The fact that poor southern boys fought in the rebel army is not why the rebel flag is an offensive symbol. The Confederacy was an institution established to uphold the institution of slavery.

In the sense that you proposed, it's analogous to a European Christian taking up a Crusader flag to honor the poor young men who fought in the Crusades. While those poor young men certainly sacrificed a lot, that doesn't do much to take away from the fact that they were fighting for an unjust cause. In that same sense, even if one takes up the rebel flag to honor the poor southerners who fought for the Confederacy, by flying the flag to honor them you are tacitly approving of their cause.

 

[gasguy98]

Your EP argument is fallacious. Lincoln wanted to avoid a war, and issuing an EP would only spark one. The entire reason the South was seceding was based on the fear that Lincoln would do something like issue an EP.

The reason why Lincoln's EP only affected the South lies in the EP's purpose. Before, freed slaves were not being returned to their owners after being liberated by the North because the Union claimed that they were "contraband of war". This indicated that the South was a separate sovereign nation, which Lincoln was denying. Moreover, Lincoln wanted to avoid pissing off other states in the Union, lest they join the Confederacy. Finally, the EP would hurt the Confederate's war effort, because many slaves heard of it and fled to the North.

And your last argument misses the point. The fact that poor southern boys fought in the rebel army is not why the rebel flag is an offensive symbol. The Confederacy was an institution established to uphold the institution of slavery.

In the sense that you proposed, it's analogous to a European Christian taking up a Crusader flag to honor the poor young men who fought in the Crusades. While those poor young men certainly sacrificed a lot, that doesn't do much to take away from the fact that they were fighting for an unjust cause. In that same sense, even if one takes up the rebel flag to honor the poor southerners who fought for the Confederacy, by flying the flag to honor them you are tacitly approving of their cause.

Well, you are going to believe what you want but the facts are that the Republican party had no interest in freeing slaves in the South. The EP was basically a PR move to get the European countries to not want to support the confederacy by bringing a moral objective to the invasion of the South. Lincoln said so in many speeches. It also destableized Southern society hurting the war effort. The Republicans DID want to end the expansion of slavery in the new territories and this did trouble many wealthy Southern plantation owners.

As for the last point it is a matter of perspective. I choose to see the CBF as the symbol of men that saw their homes under invasion, regardless of the reason for the invasion, and defend their homes and land. The average Southern soldier knew nothing of slavery in terms of a political issue. He knew that a foreign army was marching on his state.
For a very good perspective on the average Southern soldier in the war you might want to check out "Company Aytch, or a Side Show of the Big Show" by Sam Watkins of the 14th Tennessee CSA. It is considered the best perspective of the war from the average foot soldier. It is also the main inspiration for "The Red Badge of Courage".
As for other reasons for Union aggression check out "When in the Course of Human Events" by Carles Adams. Adams is a native New Yorker and is considered one of the worlds foremost authorities on taxation. He presents a very compelling argument that the Union invasion was based on government revenue for Northern industrialist rather than a grand moral objective.

 

[tvolsfan]

If you really think this is true answer these 2 questions:

The Emancipation Proclamation was enacted in 1863. The war started in 1861. If it was SOLEY over slavery why didn't the EP happen at the outbreak of the war?

Because Lincoln wasn't going to immediately abolish slavery like the south seemed to think he was. He only issued the EP to attempt to weaken the south. When issued, it was pretty ineffective because the south obviously wasn't loyal to him.

Also, very few people actually owned slaves but many a poor southern boy fought and died under the rebel flag.
Is it possible that the flag and all the pro Southern chants are in praise of the poor Southerners that took up the call to defend their homes from a foreign invader? At the end of the day you choose to be offended by this historic symbol or not. The choice is yours.

I agree not everyone who fought for the confederacy was immoral, and I agree it isn't my decision that southerns fly the flag. I'm just saying many people will look at the flag and assume the supporters of it are racist rednecks, even if that is an unfair assumption.

Like it or not, the flag will always be tied to rebellion against the United States and promotion of slavery.

 

[Ohio Vol]

In the sense that you proposed, it's analogous to a European Christian taking up a Crusader flag to honor the poor young men who fought in the Crusades. While those poor young men certainly sacrificed a lot, that doesn't do much to take away from the fact that they were fighting for an unjust cause. In that same sense, even if one takes up the rebel flag to honor the poor southerners who fought for the Confederacy, by flying the flag to honor them you are tacitly approving of their cause.

To bring this all back to football, why then is there no continuous outcry over the fact that a LOT of Catholic/Christian high schools and colleges in this country are named "Crusaders"?

 

[gasguy98]

Because Lincoln wasn't going to immediately abolish slavery like the south seemed to think he was. He only issued the EP to attempt to weaken the south. When issued, it was pretty ineffective because the south obviously wasn't loyal to him.


I agree not everyone who fought for the confederacy was immoral, and I agree it isn't my decision that southerns fly the flag. I'm just saying many people will look at the flag and assume the supporters of it are racist rednecks, even if that is an unfair assumption.

Like it or not, the flag will always be tied to rebellion against the United States and promotion of slavery.

Lincoln wan not going to abolish slavery at all, only stop it from spreading to the new territories. .
You are right in the sense that many see the flag and pro Southern chants as backwards and racist and all that jazz. To be sure to SOME it does in fact stand for these things. However, to the University of Mississippi it is a symbol of the uniqueness of the state and their states involvement in the most bloody 4 years in this nations history. I for one applaud Ole Miss for not giving a damn what the rest of the country thinks about them.

Many people see the flag of the United States as a symbol of oppression, racism, imperialism...
People are going to see what they want to see in a flag or symbol.