Our national title claims

#76
#76
allvol said:
The 6 National Titles are not claims by Tennessee or its fans but instead are officially recognized by the NCAA. General Neyland is held in high regard as one of only a handful of coaches that have won at least 4 National Championships.
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THIS!!!!:lolabove:
 
#77
#77
bamawriter said:
The NCAA only recognizes 3 of UT's claims. They do not credit UT for 1940, 1950 or 1967.

Link

Neyland only won 2, according to the NCAA (though 1950 is recognized by CFDW, so it probably should count). The only coaches to win 4 national championships in the modern era are Bernie Bierman, Frank Leahy, Bear Bryant, and Nick Saban.
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You are simply wrong. The most recent official records by the NCAA recognizes 6 national championships for Tennessee and 4 for Neyland. Saban even noted that he was proud to join the group of coaches that included Neyland with 4 or more championships. I personally don't agree with all the years the NCAA recognized but also think the '39 and '50 Vols teams were the best in their respective seasons.
 
#78
#78
allvol said:
You are simply wrong. The most recent official records by the NCAA recognizes 6 national championships for Tennessee and 4 for Neyland.
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I provided a link. If you have some recent publication that refutes my link, please provide it. But the NCAA only credits the consensus selectors from 1950 to the present (there goes '50 and '67), and they are very selective with which pre-consensus selectors they count (no 1940).

Saban even noted that he was proud to join the group of coaches that included Neyland with 4 or more championships.
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How about a link to Saban's statement?
 
#79
#79
wmcovol said:
Tennessee claims those where they were actually named #1 by an outside source recognized at the time. The 1967 team lost its first game, at UCLA and won them all until the Orange Bowl vs Okla. Back then, bowls weren't considered in the final polls. The final poll was at end of the reg season. Tenn lost the game missing a fg on last play after being down 19-0 at half.

Bama claims the 1964 NC after the lost to Texas in the Orange Bowl.
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And 1973 after their loss to ND.
 
#81
#81
bamawriter said:
I provided a link. If you have some recent publication that refutes my link, please provide it. But the NCAA only credits the consensus selectors from 1950 to the present (there goes '50 and '67), and they are very selective with which pre-consensus selectors they count (no 1940).



How about a link to Saban's statement?
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Try pp. 69-74 of the "FBS Records" section of the 2012 NCAA Football Records, which is accessible as a .pdf file from 2012 NCAA Football Records | NCAA Public Home Page - NCAA.org. It lists every single "national championship" recognized by the NCAA as having been awarded concurrently or retroactively by the "more than 30 selectors of national champions" which have existed over the years. Consult pp. 75 & 78 for listings restricted to "Major Selectors since 1936" and "Consensus National Champions," respectively.
 
#82
#82
Volosaurus rex said:
Try pp. 69-74 of the "FBS Records" section of the 2012 NCAA Football Records, which is accessible as a .pdf file from 2012 NCAA Football Records | NCAA Public Home Page - NCAA.org. It lists every single "national championship" recognized by the NCAA as having been awarded concurrently or retroactively by the "more than 30 selectors of national champions" which have existed over the years. Consult pp. 75 & 78 for listings restricted to "Major Selectors since 1936" and "Consensus National Champions," respectively.
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That is a list of selectors, not a list of who the NCAA acknowledges as champions (and I use the word "acknowledge", since the NCAA obviously doesn't award a title in FBS). The link I provided gives the list of the NCAA's acknowledged champions.

Page 76 of your link, "National Poll Champions in Bowl Games", contains a list that is identical to what the NCAA acknowledges in my link. Prior to the AP, the NCAA pretty much goes with the National Championship Foundation, a retroactive polling organization.

So, again, the NCAA does not give any credence to half of UT's six claims.
 
#83
#83
Volswin98 said:
How did the 1938 team give up 16 points all season and go undefeated and didn't win the NC?
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Nearly every mathematical system will return Tennessee as the No. 1 team in 1938. However, that includes the Vols' 17-0 shutout of unbeaten Oklahoma in the Orange Bowl.

Years ago, I spoke to a person who had researched the 1938 college football season extensively. They told me that the main reason that Texas Christian got the AP nod was because Davey O'Brien was setting passing records for TCU nearly every week, and no one was used to seeing that style of football. It got more media attention than Tennessee beating up on teams every week using that old "boring" single wing and a crushing defense. On top of that, Duke was shutting everyone out it played--they didn't allow a point that season until the last 40 seconds of the Rose Bowl--so UT's defensive record, while impressive, didn't lead the nation.

Basically, it was an early case of media hype that cost Tennessee the 1938 AP national championship. I think UT is within its rights to claim it, though. The AP wasn't considered gospel in '38, and they're about the only ones who think TCU was the best team that year. Some of the systems rate Tennessee in '38 as one of the greatest teams of all time.
 
#84
#84
Correct. Here is the breakdown on how the 1938 national championship was awarded by various selectors:

Notre Dame: Dickinson

Tennessee: Billingsley, Boand, Dunkel, Football Research, Houlgate, Litkenhous, Poling, Sagarin, Sagarin (ELO-Chess)

TCU: AP, Helms, National Championship Foundation, Williamson
 
#85
#85
Volosaurus rex said:
Correct. Here is the breakdown on how the 1938 national championship was awarded by various selectors:

Notre Dame: Dickinson

Tennessee: Billingsley, Boand, Dunkel, Football Research, Houlgate, Litkenhous, Poling, Sagarin, Sagarin (ELO-Chess)

TCU: AP, Helms, National Championship Foundation, Williamson
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'38 is a great example of why I say "If several selectors picked you, and you can make a coherent case, claim it." At least prior to the wire service era. Tennessee has a just as good a claim to '38 as TCU does, if not a little better.
 
#86
#86
This is why I hate the term "National Champions" when it comes to college football. Claims are essentially meaningless if you go back far enough. The whole idea of "champion" is that there should only be ONE. Singular. Uno.

There should be no fewer than 16 teams that get a shot at a national title in a given year by way of a PLAYOFF.

If the NCAA had wised up and done something like this decades ago, college football would be even more popular than it is now (might even still be the most popular level of the sport like it used to be)
 
#87
#87
Also take into account that before '43 the NFL draft happened in the middle of December, before bowl games took place.
 
#89
#89
bamawriter said:
I provided a link. If you have some recent publication that refutes my link, please provide it. But the NCAA only credits the consensus selectors from 1950 to the present (there goes '50 and '67), and they are very selective with which pre-consensus selectors they count (no 1940).
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Your link was for "consensus" national champions. Tennessee has 2 consensus nc. However, the NCAA recognizes and allows Tennessee to put the 6 NC in their publications. Alabama is also allowed by the NCAA to claim more than just consensus nc. The NCAA recognizes other championships because they realize that the AP was not really as important in the past as it is currently. The AP used to select its champion prior to the bowl games until the late 1960's.

Here is a list of ALL national champions... College football national championships in NCAA Division I FBS - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

bamawriter said:
How about a link to Saban's statement?
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I can't find Saban's quote, but here is an NBC article listing Saban's place among national championship coaches.... Saban also No. 1 in coaching ranks? - NBC Sports | NBC Sports
 
#90
#90
You claim them all, because any good program has questionable claims and those that don't have any claims at all have no business bringing it up.
 
#91
#91
I don't think it matters. Even if we make bogus claims like Bama fans it will still not be what they have outright.
 
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